This thread is about 1911's, not just Ruger 1911's. I've owned guns for most of my life, and for a number of years had an Army issued 1911 45acp for military use (although admittedly I didn't shoot it much beyond a couple of times a year) and have never understood the almost reverential awe that some gun owners hold for the 1911 design. It certainly was a good, workable design, but what makes it special to so many folks? My Ruger PC97 had never, ever had a single problem, nor have I had any problems with the reliability and accuracy of any of the Glocks I own, while my one and only Kimber (a 1911 design) was plagued by problem which resulted in me getting rid of that gun. I have no problem with anyone owning anything that they like, and the 1911 is certainly a good design that has stood the test of time, but when I read of some who think that NOTHING but the 1911 is worth having, I am puzzled. Set me straight.
Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but....
- Thread starter vito
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Selena
Hunter
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While not a 1911 my Commander has given me good service since the day I got it.
OP
The Kimber I had was the smallest one they made at the time, but I don't recall what it was called. I think it was the Ultra Carry. The gun looked great, felt great, and had very manageable recoil for such a small gun. But it had constant FTF and FTE, despite two trips back to Kimber and using only high quality factory ammo. I really had hoped that the Kimber would be my life long every day carry but it was not to be. I later was told that the problem was likely the short 3 inch barrel and that the longer barrel Kimbers did not have the same problems.
I have no doubt the 3" barrel was the main problem. Long story short, I did some experimenting with shortened 1911s back in the '80s and came to the conclusion that I'd never personally trust one shorter than 4".vito said:
My son has a Kimber with a 4" or 4.25" barrel and the short grip frame. I don't know how reliable it is (but I've never heard him complain about it, nor has he ever asked me for tuning help with it) but I can tell you that stupid little gun has, far and away, THE BEST trigger I've ever felt on a 1911, and I've handled my share of match-grade target guns. :shock:
The Ford Model T was a game changer. Not only for that industry but for our society. I dont want one as my every day driver.
The 1911 is no different.
The 1911 made its mark and its reputation was helped greatly by 2 world wars.
I think Vito is right on track here.
Its not that the 1911 is a century old design, rather its limited magazine capacity, bulky size and complicated take-down procedures.
My favorite 1911 is the Ruger lightweight Commander in 9mm. The 2 other 1911s here were just too cheap to pass up at the time.
Regardless, I’ll still choose a Sig P220 or CZ75 or about any Glock over a 1911.
The 1911 is no different.
The 1911 made its mark and its reputation was helped greatly by 2 world wars.
I think Vito is right on track here.
Its not that the 1911 is a century old design, rather its limited magazine capacity, bulky size and complicated take-down procedures.
My favorite 1911 is the Ruger lightweight Commander in 9mm. The 2 other 1911s here were just too cheap to pass up at the time.
Regardless, I’ll still choose a Sig P220 or CZ75 or about any Glock over a 1911.
vito said:
No need to set you, or anyone else straight. For every gadget there's a fan base. Ford. Chevy, Dodge, Colt, S&W, Ruger, and even Ginger and Mary Ann. Granted, some folks get a little carried away with their love for their favorite at the expense of all others, but so what? I kinda like 'em all, while certain ones get a little more respect from me than others, but i'm not about to claim total superiority for my favorite of favorites. Others may do so, and I'll just ignore them. Life's too darn short to get all wrapped around the axle over what somebody else thinks about this or that specific gadget. We can hold that over for the Political subforum. :wink:
JMHO
NikA
Hunter
vito said:
Sounds like you like 1911s in principle but had a particularly bad example.
I find the 1911 to be a comfortable platform to shoot. I've looked for other .45 platforms with higher capacity, but not really found anything with enough additional capacity to justify the significant extra bulkiness in the grip.
I have a number of other platforms for other calibers; I find the 1911 design to be particularly suited to .45. I have a preference for .45 in handguns because I find the recoil to not be overly snappy and it is inherently subsonic and operates at lower pressure.
Well the way I see it everyone forms their own opinion based on their own experience. Now I've used only two types of handguns for service use. They were a 1911A1 and a Hi Power. Both worked, but the 1911A1 instilled more confidence. So my opinion is that the 1911A1 is the best self defense semiauto.
Each has a reason for or against a particular type it seems. Personally I prefer the 1911 design over the Glock. To me the Glock feels like I have gripped a block of 2x4 while the 1911 grip fits smoothly.
loaded round
Hunter
Say whatever you want about this pistol....it just works when you need it!
mistermills357
Blackhawk
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I have a Colt .45 1911 and it works pretty well, and when I got it, I promised myself that I would keep it.
I have had a Ruger P97 .45 and I thought that it was a pretty good gun. I ended up giving it to an old GF, because I wanted her to have a good gun.
I am very confident when I have my 1911.
I have had a Ruger P97 .45 and I thought that it was a pretty good gun. I ended up giving it to an old GF, because I wanted her to have a good gun.
I am very confident when I have my 1911.
My favorite auto loader is the 1911 in 45 ACP. All the rest are just tools, though I do kinda like my CZ 75B.
I don't doubt there's something to the under 4.25" not being as reliable, though it's not been my experience with a 3" Kimber Eclipse and a 3" Colt Defender. Both are 100% reliable no matter what I feed them. The Colt is my daily carry gun in cooler weather. I trust my life, and my family's lives, with it.
I have a new holster coming in about a month for a S&W Shield Plus, but I'm getting the feeling it won't be carried much. I just like my cocked and locked 45 with its eight 230 grain cannonballs :)
I don't doubt there's something to the under 4.25" not being as reliable, though it's not been my experience with a 3" Kimber Eclipse and a 3" Colt Defender. Both are 100% reliable no matter what I feed them. The Colt is my daily carry gun in cooler weather. I trust my life, and my family's lives, with it.
I have a new holster coming in about a month for a S&W Shield Plus, but I'm getting the feeling it won't be carried much. I just like my cocked and locked 45 with its eight 230 grain cannonballs :)
The wheel is also an ancient design, but I haven't noticed many substantial improvements on the basic theme.hittman said:
The single action revolver, the DA revolver, the lever action rifle, the bolt action centerfire rifle and the pump shotgun are all direct or indirect descendants of designs even older than the 1911, but I'd be willing to bet you have at least a few of these in your "working gun" battery and don't consider them obsolete at all. :wink:
I'd consider the SIG 220, CZ75 and Glock all to be bulkier than the 1911. The 1911 might be slightly more complicated to field-strip than those three, but I'll guarantee it's MUCH easier to detail-strip than any of them. Probably easier to get and replace parts on, too. :wink:
Wheels used to be made of wood so there’s that. :lol:
I think we agree that grip size, shape and angle are a personal preference thing. I guess shooters with smaller hands may like the 1911 more since it’s pretty thin. I get along fine with all grip shapes and sizes but maybe I’m just not particular enough.
A standard 1911 is 39 ounces, P220 is 30 and G21 is 26. Of course having a loaded mag in each would surely even up the weight difference some.
Oh, and I dont consider the 1911 obsolete. I just dont have the nostalgic love affair some do when there are (to me) better options available.
I think we agree that grip size, shape and angle are a personal preference thing. I guess shooters with smaller hands may like the 1911 more since it’s pretty thin. I get along fine with all grip shapes and sizes but maybe I’m just not particular enough.
A standard 1911 is 39 ounces, P220 is 30 and G21 is 26. Of course having a loaded mag in each would surely even up the weight difference some.
Oh, and I dont consider the 1911 obsolete. I just dont have the nostalgic love affair some do when there are (to me) better options available.
I think the 1911 is a great gun, along with the Hi-Power, the SAA, a couple of the S&W classics, and the CZ75. If I had to take only one handgun for any realistic purposes I might have it would likely be a G19.
But for sheer good feeling in the hand I'll take almost anything in an XR3-RED. :wink:
But for sheer good feeling in the hand I'll take almost anything in an XR3-RED. :wink:
It could be said J.M. Bowning designed the 1911 around the 230 gr round nose hardball bullet. Grip angle, throat, magazine design, feeding angle follower, feed lips, design of extractor,etc were based on the reliability of this bullet only. Any other change in ogive can/will change reliability.
And yet most 1911s run most modern bullet shapes reliably, or can be made to with minor adjustments. I've put something over 25K rounds of flat-nosed lead semiwadcutters through 1911s of various kinds and can't recall a single failure to feed.kwh said:
My 1911 experience is very limited. The only one I own or have shot is my 5" SR 1911. I did have to change the tension on the extractor when I first got it. After that it has been fine. I honestly like it a lot. I just usually don't carry it because of the weight or bulk. I've found myself moving from one compact striker fired pistol to another for carry for several years now. They work for me. They aren't as nice or as fun to shoot as a 1911 though.
Pat-inCO
Hawkeye
Agree! But I'll add "if you have broken it in properly".loaded round said:
1 To me that is field strip, wipe down, LIGHTLY oil, reassemble.
2 Then hand cycle the slide a few hundred times (NO magazine AND you do NOT
let the slide slam home.
3 Field strip again, wipe down, VERY lightly oil it and reassemble.
4 Check the smoothness of the slide action. If not S M O O T H, repeat number one and two
(for me that is one time, MOST times)
~ Detail strip, clean, oil lightly (I use FP10 but many others work well) and I use
Slip Stream on the rails for re-assembly.
I then do a sequence of dry fire (ride the hammer down if you like) until the release is smooth
(most time it will take less than 100 times) but repeat until it is smooth.
Detail strip again, clean, lightly oil, (once again I use Slip Stream on the rails) AND
then take it to the range. Enjoy!
I've had only a very few that did not respond to that process. Some are so good, from the
factory, that the above process is less than a half hour.
DeletedMember275
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That's why the make more flavors than just vanilla. I personally really like Rocky Road, but Mint Chocolate Chip is also good at times. I also really like 1911-style pistols, and have owned several over the years. In a previous life, I built National Match 1911A1s for the Army. Are they the end-all of auto pistols? No. I've also owned a couple of different Walthers, Makarovs, Browning Hi-Powers, S&W M&Ps, Glocks, etc. I also own and have owned various revolvers - Colts, S&Ws, Rugers, and others. Is any one the ultimate handgun? Not as far as I'm concerned. I like some better than others; the ones that I like, I typically keep. The other ones go down the road. I still own three different 1911-style pistols.
Some basic opinions on just the full size, as my opinion on all chopped down versions of any design can /will cause a new set of problems. I won't judge an original design by major alterations of that design. A proper 1911 is very dependable. The number of manufacturers that make them can lead to good or bad things.
The basic design.
To my knowledge, no semi auto pistol can be tailored to the individual as well as the 1911. Glock is working on it with their interchangeable back straps, but those make the large grip circumference even larger. The 1911 is slim, but dimensions can easily be altered buy a simple grip change.
The 1911's mainspring housing can be changed to a different shape that will alter the natural pointability to suit the individual. There are at least 3 shapes available, & there have been more. Maybe still.
The 1911's trigger can be changed with choices of at least 3 different lengths & multiple face shapes.
The 1911 still, & will likely continue to have vast aftermarket & spare parts support. The Glock aftermarket is big & growing. But that doesn't take anything away from the 1911.
I don't think the 1911 is the have all handgun, but I do think a lot of them and if one was all I had I'd be more than well served.
The basic design.
To my knowledge, no semi auto pistol can be tailored to the individual as well as the 1911. Glock is working on it with their interchangeable back straps, but those make the large grip circumference even larger. The 1911 is slim, but dimensions can easily be altered buy a simple grip change.
The 1911's mainspring housing can be changed to a different shape that will alter the natural pointability to suit the individual. There are at least 3 shapes available, & there have been more. Maybe still.
The 1911's trigger can be changed with choices of at least 3 different lengths & multiple face shapes.
The 1911 still, & will likely continue to have vast aftermarket & spare parts support. The Glock aftermarket is big & growing. But that doesn't take anything away from the 1911.
I don't think the 1911 is the have all handgun, but I do think a lot of them and if one was all I had I'd be more than well served.
mistermills357
Blackhawk
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I love the 1911 .45, if it’s not the perfect gun, then it’s close enough for me.
Can a glock or its offspring save your life? Maybe. Has a 1911 saved mine? Yes. I’ll take what works.
roger nuss
Bearcat
Smaller hands and thinner grip are not a thing . The important thing to hand size is distance from backstrap to trigger . So there's that.
Anyway I don't consider the 1911 particularly obsolete since it works in pretty much the same manner as any "modern" gun.
The Government Model and the Hi Power are the best pointing pistols I've ever held. If I were going to everyday carry a full size pistol it would be a da first shot gun like a 228 Sig, or a 639 Smith.
If I knew I was walking into a fight, I'd take my Government Model.
Anyway I don't consider the 1911 particularly obsolete since it works in pretty much the same manner as any "modern" gun.
The Government Model and the Hi Power are the best pointing pistols I've ever held. If I were going to everyday carry a full size pistol it would be a da first shot gun like a 228 Sig, or a 639 Smith.
If I knew I was walking into a fight, I'd take my Government Model.
Rick Courtright
Hawkeye
hittman said:
Hi,
I don't have any 1911s and have only shot a few. They worked. And to me, that sounds like one of the first criteria for any gun. A buddy had a raft of 1911s from various makers and loved every one of them. He was one of those types who develops an attachment to various items which doesn't really have a rational base--one of those "I'd walk 50 miles if my Ford truck broke down rather than ride in a Chevy" things--but the attachment's just as strong regardless. I think that's probably true of most of us. It's fun to watch!
Rick C
I had a Gold Cup set up to shoot 200 grain semi wadcutters owned and shot it for years. Was offered a ridiculous high price for it so I sold it. Was a great gun. Sometime later I bought a Kimber that was a total turd....sold it and later was stupid enough to get another. After two trips back to Kimber dealing with what at the time was crappy service I sold it cheap. I'll never buy a product from them again.
I like 1911s fine but to me they're not really special in any way.
I like 1911s fine but to me they're not really special in any way.
Pat-inCO
Hawkeye
wwb said:
SO true! :wink:
:D
SteveSt
Bearcat
My first 1911 was a Ruger SR 1911 and I really liked it. I have added several since and enjoyed shooting them all. I had 2 Kimbers, a full size and a Commander. They shot well but I wasn't impressed with either one of them, so I sold them. I have a few 1911 style pistols that are double stacks that I like shooting too. My favorites are Para Ordnances. I have 5 and are trying to get more. My biggest problem is having enough funds to buy 45 ACPs AND Blackhawk revolvers. :D
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