Need help for .44 Spl reloads...

[flyerdoc]

Hoping I can get some experienced help here on a particular reload. I am a newbie at this and have been getting along pretty well with the manuals and online resources, but am hitting a stone wall on this one.

I purchased Hornady XTP 44cal 180gr bullets for my 44 mag and 44 spl reloads simply because that was the only 44 cal bullet I could find locally. I am using 4227 and found adequate data for the 44 Mag, but can find no data for the 44 spl loads.

Does anyone have any data themselves or could they point me in the correct direction as to finding the data. I have exhausted all the google searches I could find to no avail.

Oh, and is there an easy way to extrapolate the load for the 44 special from what I am using for the 44 Mag (found data suggesting 27.5 grains on the low end).

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[tsubaki]

Sierra Second Edition (1978) has their 180gr JHC listed using IMR4227 and CCI300 primers in a 4" S&W Model 1950.
17.6gr @ 850fps up to 20.4gr @ 1050fps.

Sierra Edition V (2003) also has their 180gr JHC listed using IMR4227 and CCI300 primers in a 6 1/2" S&W Model 24.
15.3gr @ 750fps up to 19.5gr @ 950fps.

 

[tsubaki]

Modern Reloading by Lee (1996) lists a 180gr jacketed using H4227.
18.3gr (no listed velocity) up to 18.5gr @ 1285fps.

Lyman 46th Edition (1987) has a Sierra 180gr JHC listed using IMR4227 and CCI300 primers in a 4" universal receiver.
15.1gr @ 685fps up to 16.8gr @ 862fps.

 

[flyerdoc]

Modern Reloading by Lee (1996) lists a 180gr jacketed using H4227.
18.3gr (no listed velocity) up to 18.5gr @ 1285fps.

Lyman 46th Edition (1987) has a Sierra 180gr JHC listed using IMR4227 and CCI300 primers in a 4" universal receiver.
15.1gr @ 685fps up to 16.8gr @ 862fps.

Benny, thank you very much for that info, I do have the Lyman 49th edition and it is the same info as you have listed for the 46thEd. My only reservation in using it was that I wasn't sure if the Sierra 180JHC was close enough to the Hornady XTP. I sorta guessed it was, but being new to reloading I didn't want to make any uninformed assumptions. I guess I was just splitting hairs!
Thanks again

 

[tsubaki]

I can tell you the 180gr Sierra (#8600) is much harder than the 180gr Hornady (#44050).
At 44 special velocities (985fps) the Sierra bullet will not open up or show any damage when retrieved from a 25lb block of modeling clay but the Hornady bullet expands perfectly.
In all fairness, that Sierra bullet is rated for velocities of 1200 to 2500fps where the Hornady bullet is rated for 750 to 1400fps.

 

[Jim Puke]

In all fairness, that Sierra bullet is rated for velocities of 1200 to 2500fps where the Hornady bullet is rated for 750 to 1400fps.

What the hell kind of 44 do they shoot it in to get 2500fps?

I have never gotten consistent expansion of a Hornady XTP at less than 1200fps...never...and I don't care what their data says the velocity envelope is.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

What kind of .44 gets 2500 fps. ? How about the Marlin .444 rifle?
I see Hodgdon data for up to 2499 fps for the Sierra 240 gr. Bullet.

 

[tsubaki]

What the hell kind of 44 do they shoot it in to get 2500fps?
I have never gotten consistent expansion of a Hornady XTP at less than 1200fps...never...and I don't care what their data says the velocity envelope is.

Probably the .444 Marlin for the 2500fps.
I retrieved just a few of the XTP's between game animals and testing with clay, those were at impact velocities between 900fps and 1300fps and they expanded fine.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

4227 is a pretty slow powder to be using in the 44 Special especially with light bullets. A faster powder will give you a better burn, better accuracy and have less cost. Universal or Unique or HP-38/W231 would be my recommendation.

 

[flyerdoc]

Just went online and ordered some cast bullets from Missouri Bullet company, no word on a backlog, but I'll see how fast they ship. Got me some 240 and 300 in .44 and some 300 in .45

Their sample packs are nice, $15-$18 bucks per 100, can't go wrong there...

 

[Jim Puke]

What kind of .44 gets 2500 fps. ? How about the Marlin .444 rifle?
I see Hodgdon data for up to 2499 fps for the Sierra 240 gr. Bullet.

I was thinking more in terms of handgun.

Since you are adept at this...give me some more...one oddball ain't enough...I know there are more.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Jim, I am not aware of any other cartridge that shoots a .429/.430 bullet that fast.
That said. The .444 Marlin is not all that popular,I know, but it is an excellent round. Mine has shot three shot cloverleafs at 100 yd with iron (peep) sights. If they had tougher bullets available back when the .444 came out,I believe it would have a much larger following today than it has. People complained that the pistol bullets that were loaded in it expanding to violantly and ruining too much meat.
Today it only has a cult following kinda like the .41 mag.

 

[Chief 101]

In all fairness, that Sierra bullet is rated for velocities of 1200 to 2500fps where the Hornady bullet is rated for 750 to 1400fps.

What the hell kind of 44 do they shoot it in to get 2500fps?

I have never gotten consistent expansion of a Hornady XTP at less than 1200fps...never...and I don't care what their data says the velocity envelope is.

It shoots good in my Ruger 44 Carbine at 2050fps...I suspect a 444 Marlin rifle might be able to get it a bit higher...

 

[Ka6otm]

Modern Reloading by Lee (1996) lists a 180gr jacketed using H4227.
18.3gr (no listed velocity) up to 18.5gr @ 1285fps

Modern Reloading, both the first and second edition, contain more loads than any other loading manual out there with the possible exception of Lyman.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Lee's published load data is just copied data from other printed manuals. Lee has stated that in the past. Much of it even lists powders and bullets no longer available.
I tend to only use data from the major and trusted powder and bullet makers.
Lyman does not sell finished bullets but has a very good test lab and their data has always been high on my list of trusted sources.

 

[Paul B]

Just went online and ordered some cast bullets from Missouri Bullet company, no word on a backlog, but I'll see how fast they ship. Got me some 240 and 300 in .44 and some 300 in .45

Their sample packs are nice, $15-$18 bucks per 100, can't go wrong there...

I shoot a lot of .44 Spl. and Magnums and frankly, I stick to 240/250 gr. bullets for my handguns. you can make some very potent loads with 300 gr. bullets, no doubt about that but they will shoot quite high. You'll need a taller front sight unless your gun is scoped.
I've shot 300 gr. bullets in the .44 Mag. i handguns with barrels ranging from 4 5/8" to 7.5" in my handguns and from a borrowed 8 3/8" S&W M29 and shots at 25 yards ran roughly 6" high from all the guns. I even still have the mold that cast those bullets.
FWIW, I shoot only my own home cast bullets in my handguns. It might be worth your while to slug the barrel of your handgun along with the throats of the cylinder. If the throats are smaller than the groove diameter of the barrel the bullets will lead badly.
Example of what you're looking for:
Groove diameter: .429"/.430"
Throat diameters: .430"/.431"
Bullets should be sized to .431"

Smith & Wesson's have 5 lands and groove so unless you have a special type micrometer best you can do is estimate or pay a machinist the measure the slug. For me the estimate was close enough.

My load for the .44 Spl. is 7.5 gr. of Unique/ 245 gr. cast bullet.
For the .44 Magnum, the same bullet over 20. gr. of H2400.
Paul B.

 

[Srb08]

What kind of .44 gets 2500 fps. ? How about the Marlin .444 rifle?
I see Hodgdon data for up to 2499 fps for the Sierra 240 gr. Bullet.

I was thinking more in terms of handgun.

Since you are adept at this...give me some more...one oddball ain't enough...I know there are more.

Oddball #2
A .50 cal Black powder rifle shooting .44 cal Saboted bullets over 150gr of Triple 7 will get you in the neighborhood of 2500 fps.

 

[Chief 101]

somebody asked and we answered...you need to do something besides rag on ppl in this forum...Srb08, hadn't even thought of that, I have tried the Sierra 180gr 44's in a sabot. Didn't chrono it and couldn't hit anything with it either.