My 'New', New Vaquero broke

[airfoil]

Taking her apart was easy...putting it back together...we will see. But, I've got a hammer.

It's got that bottom lobe and the little divot in the frame...

[URL=http://s1362.photobucket.com/u...686/pf_airfoil/DSCN0280_zpsazgeecgh.jpg[/img][/url]
Looks like some wear and file marks...
[url=http://s1362.photobucket.com/u...686/pf_airfoil/DSCN0279_zpsmyf6osli.jpg[/img][/url]

[URL=http://s1362.photobucket.com/u...686/pf_airfoil/DSCN0278_zps1uhndqan.jpg[/img][/url]

[URL=http://s1362.photobucket.com/u...686/pf_airfoil/DSCN0271_zpsaztiz5ak.jpg[/img][/url]

Scuffs on the hammer



The pawl is in good enough shape for measuring for fitting the new one, I trust...

I'm thinking it was a bad casting...I've fired this thing maybe 250 times and dry fired probably thrice that...I usually don't break my toys.

Might as well go ahead and polish up the trigger and hammer as outlined in this article...http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/diy-slick-ruger-single-action/
The gate and cylinder latch felt fine to me, so won't do much with those.

When I get the replacements, I'll post. If anyone see's something amiss here, or want's me to take some more wedding pictures...chime in.

Thanks!

and please excuse my picture taking and posting to forum skillz

 

[750k2]

I had the same deal on a flat top special - they would not send me the part so went through brownells
got a couple - no fitting needed with mine.
Still working fine.
My big hammer worked fine

 

[airfoil]

Whilst waiting for the new pawls from ruger, I was polishing the various parts and frame, and noticed this...It looks like a piece of the frame was broken out.




I haven't been able to find a pic of another pistol at this angle to confirm if the hole is there in other guns, but...I don't think I like this.

Could I have blown this out, along with breaking the pawl somehow? Alright, I admit that I shot 50 .357mag reloads, that may have been a little hot (I bought them from the indoor range, so I doubt it...). Should I send it back to Ruger?

EDIT AGAIN...I just got off the phone with Ruger, and sent them pictures...they said that 'hole' is normal.

That's a relief, I had spent some time 'dehorning' this frame and all. She also said the new pawls were shipped on the 23rd.

I feel so much better now, I think I'll take a little nap.

 

[eric conrad]

That "flaw" casting mark is normal. Clean and polish everything up and with a new pawl you should be up and running.
Have fun. Eric

 

[airfoil]

Yeppers...It's normal, sometimes I'm not so much.

Thanks for your insight, and thanks to glopes at ruger...very nice young lady.

 

[airfoil]

Allrite... Got the two pawls Friday, installed this evening, and all is A-OK.

Only swore twice reassembling, and still have all my fingers.

Thanks for the help, guys. The result as follows:



Haven't shot 'er yet, but I'm confident it'll work fine...Actually kind of glad it happened, made me learn something useful.

 

[rkrcpa]

Showing the milled divot for the free spin pawl included as part of the indexing pawl system only on NM Flat Tops and New Vaqueros on the left:

Ruger standard pawl on left, Ruger free spin pawl on the right:

Thought I would bring this back to the top since I'm having a problem with a Flat Top 44spl and these pictures will serve the purpose nicely.

The problem I am experiencing is what I will refer to as "hammer drag". I am stumped as to what is causing it and I wonder if a better understanding of the new style pawl and the "frame divot" might help me figure this out. The "drag" only occurs when either of the two bottom rear trigger guard screws are tightened. If I leave the screws loose in the frame with a slight gap between the grip frame and cylinder frame the gun functions perfectly. If I tighten the screws enough to remove the gap between the frames you can feel a drag when cocking the hammer and when the trigger is pulled the hammer fall is significantly slower. Something is causing the drag when the two parts come in close contact, but which parts?

Could there be insufficient clearance between the grip frame and the extension on the new style pawl that is causing the hammer to bind? In other words, is the grip frame pushing up on the pawl and putting pressure on the hammer? Is there something else going on that I'm not seeing? What else is there that could cause the hammer to bind as a result of tightening the grip frame to the cylinder frame?

What purpose does the extension on the pawl serve and how does it accomplish the purpose? Can the grip frame be clearanced for the extension without affecting its function? Can the extension be removed completely?

Any insight to the problem would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Hondo44]

99% of the time, hammer drag is caused by the grip frame ears rubbing on the hammer.

TIPS FOR INSTALLING GRIP FRAMES:
With hammer out, look for rub marks on the sides of the hammer base to see which side is binding.
Install all five screws but do not cinch them tight. Align the grip frame edges flush with the cyl frame by tapping with the butt of a plastic handled screw driver. Tighten one trigger guard screw, then front screw and then one ear screw. Check the hammer for freedom of movement as you go. Then tighten all screws. Check for ease of hammer movement to be sure it's not rubbing on grip frame ears. If it worked right originally from the factory, it will work right again w/o any modifications to the gun or the grip frame.

NOTE: While you have the grip frame off, it's always good to examine the upper end of all the grip frame blind screw holes for thread shavings that weren't cleaned out from the factory and get crammed in there by the screws.

Also check the two trigger guard screw holes where they are exposed by the milling cut if your grip frame has the two projections that go into the main frame (the New Vaquero and New FT BH guns no longer have these projections and milling cuts). Almost always there will be a huge flat 'roll-over' burr in each hole from the milling cuts that expose the holes. If they are present they generally cause the 1st 1/8" of removing those two screws to take extra effort to unscrew. You'll need to break off the burrs and pick them out with a dental pick or equivalent tool.

What purpose does the extension on the pawl serve and how does it accomplish the purpose? Can the grip frame be clearanced for the extension without affecting its function? Can the extension be removed completely?

Any insight to the problem would be greatly appreciated.

The extension on the pawl makes the pawl a "free spin" pawl so the cyl will rotate backwards to allow the Ruger "Indexing Pawl System" to stop the cyl chambers in alignment with the loading gate for ease of loading and unloading. Only New Vaqueros and NM Flat Top Blackhawks have this improvement.

The pawl is not causing the hammer binding problem. If you "clearance" the grip frame or remove the extension, the pawl will not function properly. The chambers will no longer stop in alignment with the loading gate.

 

[rkrcpa]

The extension on the pawl makes the pawl a "free spin" pawl so the cyl will rotate backwards to allow the Ruger "Indexing Pawl System" to stop the cyl chambers in alignment with the loading gate for ease of loading and unloading. Only New Vaqueros and NM Flat Top Blackhawks have this improvement.

The pawl is not causing the hammer binding problem. If you "clearance" the grip frame or remove the extension, the pawl will not function properly. The chambers will no longer stop in alignment with the loading gate.

Trying to understand how this all functions.....does the new plunger push against the pawl extension in order to rotate the top portion of the pawl rearward and out of the way of the cylinder ratchet? Why the divot? Does that act as a stop to prevent over rotation?

I'll check grip frame alignment and report back with what I find.

Thanks

 

[Hondo44]

Trying to understand how this all functions.....does the new plunger push against the pawl extension in order to rotate the top portion of the pawl rearward and out of the way of the cylinder ratchet? Why the divot? Does that act as a stop to prevent over rotation?

I'll check grip frame alignment and report back with what I find.

Thanks

No. The divot is what cocks the pawl rearward and out of the way of the cylinder ratchet.

The new 'Reverse Indexing Pawl System' in conjunction with the free spin cyl pawl allows the cyl to roll backwards enough for the chambers to align to the loading gate trough without the hammer on half cock (which can't be done on standard new models). You can see the device (3 parts) in the hammer channel to the lower left of the cyl pin hole shown below. Grip frames from models w/o this system need a divot cut for the free spin cyl pawl.

Hex retaining screw (holding an unseen spring) in hammer channel:

Indexing pawl button:

 

[sliclee]

do not fan- makes special mention in book

 

[Hondo44]

It's good advice! But just like if your car's owner's manual mentioned: do not drive with the accelerator pedal pushed to the floor. In both cases neither the gun nor the car would have a normal life expectancy if used with those kinds of abuse.

Does it mean, you can never put the pedal to the floor? No.

Those kinds of messages are written for the lowest informed consumer.