misfire

[cyberscout19]

I loaded up some 44 special loads. Pistol is a ruger lipsey flat top in 44 special. Load is starline brass 250grain cast bullet,6.9 grains of unique, WLP primer. First shot went click! Had to strike the primer 2 times before it fired. All the rounds i loaded did this but 2 out of 15. What did i do wrong?

 

[Twoboxer]

Firing on the second strike makes me suspect primer not set deep enough. First strike sets it deep enough, second strike fires it.

Firing on the third strike makes me suspect the firing pin/spring. How does your pistol shoot factory?

 

[cyberscout19]

Thanks for the reply Twoboxer. It shoots factory rounds fine. Will go back and check the primers on the other rounds.

 

[contender]

Welcome!
I agree that primers not properly seated could be the main culprit. I loaded a thousand rounds of 45 the other night for my USPSA match shooting. Once loaded, the first thing I do is place them in plastic bullet trays, 50 at a time, and slowly & carefully run my finger over all the primers looking for a high one. I've done 350 so far, and I've found just one that was a teeny bit high. A simple reseat happened in the press.
High primers can also cause cylinder binding.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Welcome!
...Once loaded, the first thing I do is place them in plastic bullet trays, 50 at a time, and slowly & carefully run my finger over all the primers looking for a high one....

You should also be able to put them in front of a light and tilt the loading block so you can look at the primers from a slight angle to make sure they are all below flush. I trust my eyes more that my finger.

I also look at the block of empty cases before priming to make sure all the flash holes are open.

 

[Rclark]

I hand prime. So you can feel it seat properly each time. Still, if for some reason I question it, I'll run my finger over the primer and visual check to 'assure' myself all is well. I hardly ever have a misfire unless I am getting weak primer pin strikes. This is usually after I've had some 'tuning' done that I run into this problem. Several times, I've went back to the stock hammer spring and problem solved. CCI (which I use) have a bit harder cup than WLP or Federal.

 

[cyberscout19]

Thank you gentlemen for all of the advise. I went back with the hand primer and seated the primers farther in and they moved. So I totally dropped the ball on the priming of the cases. Didn't get a chance to fire some will tomorrow. Keep post on what happens. Thanks again for all the advise.

 

[Precision32]

Just one of those things you pick up as you learn the skills of reloading.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

Next time you deprime that brass, might want to clean the primer pockets, too. Depending on the load and powder, they may be anywhere from almost spotless to pretty well crudded up. The cruddy ones can cause primer seating problems...

Rick C

 

[mikld]

Firing on the second strike makes me suspect primer not set deep enough. First strike sets it deep enough, second strike fires it.

Yep, about 90% of new reloader's failure to fire occurrences is due to poor primer seating...

 

[Bucks Owin]

Primer BOTTOMED in primer pocket is the "correct" depth....always. :wink:

 

[Rclark]

Primer BOTTOMED in primer pocket is the "correct" depth....always.

+100. No need for calipers. Just bottom the primers and good to go.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Primer BOTTOMED in primer pocket is the "correct" depth....always.

+100. No need for calipers. Just bottom the primers and good to go.

Hi,

Yup: a little work with the calipers will show a difference in primer pocket depths, combined with a difference in primer thicknesses. And that's on average--manufacturing tolerances can stack up, too. Adding the variables together, it's impossible to make a valid blanket statement about how many thousandths deep one should be able to measure. As the gentlemen already said, bottom them out...

Rick C

 

[cyberscout19]

Will do thanks for all the advice. I did go back and I bottomed out the primers. There was movement so I did not have them seated in all the way.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Haven't been able to wear out my trusty Lee hand prime tool, but HAVE had to occasionally put a dab of grease in it when it felt kinda "insensitive"... :wink:

 

[Imissedagain]

We prime by hand. When teaching my boy I gave him some S&B cases. He first reaction was that they still had a primer pocket crimp......but as he continued he saw that some cases require a bit more pressure to seat correctly.
Excess with some case lube can cause misfires or a swoosh sound as the ...non ATF permitted silencer technique is used.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Nice to hear your boy is into the hobby.. 8)

Mine enjoys helping out with casting bullets but he'd rather burn powder than load it!

 

[Rick Courtright]

The .006" depth I quoted is an industry spec that was given in a technical article by Shooting Times in the late 80s. Not an arbitrary assumption or blank statement.

Hi,

Yet during many of those same intervening years, Forster has suggested 0.004" was ideal.

So I'm not gonna argue that a particular depth is best. I'm just a beginner at this hobby: didn't get started until Santa was good to me at Christmas--in 1965--and I still learn something new every time I sit down at the bench.

One thing I've learned so far is that neither primers, firing pins nor I are as smart as the engineers! Primers know only that they have to be hit "so hard" to go off. Firing pins only know that they can't hit "so hard" unless there's appropriate resistance to their strike. And I only know that the way I can ensure these two items get what they need is to make sure the primer's seated to the bottom of the pocket. I use one of two Lee Auto Prime tools that are kept well lubed, away from any 800 lb gorillas, and they've done that job for quite a number of years. The one set up for large primers is old enough it didn't even come with a primer tray... it's a "single shot."

Now, one of the great things about reloading is there are many ways around the barn that all end up with us in the same place. So if my way works for me, yours for you, and they're different, so be it! No harm, no foul...

Rick C

 

[Bucks Owin]

Yep, mine's an old "single shot" too Rick... :lol:

Bet you know what I mean about needing an occasional "lube job"... :wink:

 

[Rick Courtright]

Well, Forster might be correct as far as handloading. The .006" spec was for factory ammo in the Shooting Times article I mentioned. Again though, we're talking about minimum depth spec.

Hi,

Well, I dunno about the rest of you, but I've never loaded any factory ammo myself...

What I have handloaded, though, were combinations of brass and primer that yielded a primer depth ranging from 0.002"+/- to 0.006" +/-. What they all shared was that the primers were bottomed out in the pockets. And they all went off when I pulled the trigger.

Call me easily entertained?

Rick C

 

[Bucks Owin]

Like myself, I expect Rick has handloaded enough ammo to fill a barge... :wink:

Don't understand the fretting over this issue. Start with a clean pocket with unobstructed flash hole, and seat primer to bottom of pocket. If there is a problem from there on, it is with the firing pin itself or the spring that powers it! :wink:

(Or the primer itself due to inadvertantly getting handled with oily fingers etc...)

 

[Jimbo357mag]

If you want to prevent 'misfire', which is the point of this thread, make sure your primers are seated all the way to the bottom of the primer pocket. The measurement from flush might be interesting to some but it is irrelevant because each case/primer brand combination is different. Just like OAL is different with each case/bullet combination.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Is there an echo in here?!? :shock:

 

[brushunter]

Started reloading on a RCBS jr. press. Didn't have anything fancy to prime with. Had to use the tube and ram on the press. Easy to bottom out primers using that. Over 30 years of reloading , can count the misfires on one hand ...bottom out the primers ....easy as that , no need to make it difficult ...or measure ...bottom them out. Ahhh , an echo .... :lol:

regards , brushunter

 

[Bucks Owin]

Dittos BH.. :wink:

(But I had a Pacific Jr... :lol: )

Dang that echo! :shock:

 

[Rick Courtright]

Dang that echo! :shock:

Hi,

Startin' to sound a little like a deep cave, isn't it?

Yes, I HAVE measured primer seating depth a time or two. Out of curiosity. And, yes, I clean my primer pockets each time, then trust my equipment isn't wearing fast enough to get worried about it.

A small straight edge across the head will verify the primer's below the surface if in doubt, a practiced hand will verify the same "feel" from one case to the next, and a satisfying "BANG" each time the hammer falls will verify installing primers "properly" isn't rocket science...

Beyond that, one's free to use one's time as desired when it comes to additional prep and QC. As I've said before, there are several ways around this barn.

Rick C

 

[cyberscout19]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I reset the primers deeper and at every trigger pull they go boom. Twice over. Thanks again everyone. Now for more practice time cuz I sure need it.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I reset the primers deeper and at every trigger pull they go boom. Twice over. Thanks again everyone. Now for more practice time cuz I sure need it.

Bottom out...go bang! 8)

Glad you're back in business... :wink: