Mark II Slide Frozen Back

[Kobra-428]

Hi all, been a long time lurker and never had anything relevant to add, but now I need your help!

I've had and enjoyed a stainless Mark II Target pistol for a few years now - awesome gun!! At the range yesterday I fired one shot of my common plinking ammo (Federal's 36 grain Value Pack ammo, gone through at least 4,000 rounds of it over the years). The first shot fired just fine, but the slide locked to the rear in its open position. And I mean it's LOCKED, no movement at all. I can't disassemble the pistol at all of course and have examined it as best I can but am totally lacking the knowledge/experience to diagnose the problem.

I figure it's soon going on a trip to Ruger, but thought I'd throw the situation out to all of you much more knowledgeable people in hopes that this might be a known and incredibly easy issue to resolve.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Bullseye57]

Do you know if the bolt stop is holding the bolt open? Will the bolt stop lever move downward? If not you can take off the left grip and see if anything is preventing it from moving.

R,
Bullseye

 

[rugerguy]

really tough to diagnose over the internet with NO picture....magazine OUT first off and the chamber 'empty', the pull back on the bolt, and ( hard to do as it is a three handed operation!!) but gently tap downward on the hold open lever at the same time if it is NOT moving...if the bolt goes back any amount, this should free up the hold open lever, you can also put an old ( use) 22 cleaning rod ,aluminum preferred, in from the front and again, tap downward on the muzzle to get the bolt to go backward.....again, cannot tell if it "locked" back in the"hold open position" OR is it locked ALLL the waay to the rear??? two different scenarios.........................

 

[Bullseye57]

I think you may have missed the OP's comment about the slide being locked in the rearward or open position.

R,
Bullseye

 

[Kobra-428]

Hi again, thanks for the responses.

Yea, I guess I wasn't clear enough in my original post? The slide/bolt is locked completely to the rear. There is absolutely NO movement of the bolt in any way now. I didn't post a photo because all you can see is my pistol with its slide locked to the rear - doesn't look like anything abnormal at all. I had taken the grip panels off and all seemed normal, as far as I could tell. The slide stop is actually in its down position. I can manually push it up but it doesn't stay up there, still goes back down on its own power (it feels normal, but it obviously isn't behaving properly). Weird. To me it feels like something broke inside and locked everything up.

I guess it'll have to go back to Ruger, I'll post a follow-up if and when I hear anything.

 

[louiethelump]

Sounds like a broken bolt stop pin to me. (the part of the mainspring assy that goes up through the opening in the bolt) I have seen a couple of those break and this of course locks the gun up.

My advice would be to send it to Ruger.

 

[Bullseye57]

Have you tried tapping on the back of the bolt with a mallet? The recoil spring guide, little butterfly assembly, may have broken and one of the wings is obstructing the bolt's movement. If you can get the bolt closed you can drop the hammer and strip down the pistol to evaluate the problem further.

R,
Bullseye

 

[Kobra-428]

Yep, I've been everywhere from trying gentle persuasion to, uh, let's say a little more than gentle persuasion... The bolt/slide is totally locked in place, no movement at all. The broken bolt stop pin seems like it might be the issue. I see Ruger sells these so I'll likely get a few (if that's the problem), but it still has to go back to Ruger now since I'm totally unable to take it apart in its current position.

Thanks again all, much appreciated!

 

[rugerguy]

no we understood the bolt back, and was wondering "how far back' as that is how you go around the bolt stop (hold open) part of it, as I said tough to diagnose with out actually "seeing, what why and where...." agree it sounds like the bolt stop pin and again just "how much persuasion".....we used a BFH.......
any doubt, send it back,,,,,,bottom line its 'fubar' now, so use MORE persuasion.......last one we had like that, ONE good rap on the bench top carpet piece knocked it forward, upside down, the broken top piece fell out, was broken at the pivot, BUT that sits below the area of the bolt???and with the bolt ALL the way back, hard to "see" (tell) just what would keep it back, the stop rides inside the bolt itself............I'm guessing the recoil spring guide OR the hammer/safety area.....no safety notch on a MK II bolt, but there is the cutout for the disconnector in the bolt on the lower right side,again,tough to "see"..............the good old tap ( leather or plastic hammer) sides, top back any and all positions, and see what "shakes loose"..........again won't hurt to try.........ANY doubt, send it back......
MOST gunsmiths don;t let you "watch" to see, just what they have to do to make things "unjam" , knowing where and how hard is what determines the cost,plus the replacement parts IF needed :roll:

 

[Bullseye57]

One other thought I had was to inspect the hammer pivot pin and ensure it has not walked to one side of the frame. This condition would allow the hammer to cock sideways and pinch the bolt from underneath, potentially causing a similar problem as the one described. The hammer pivot pin is the one with the big head and is held in place by the left grip panel.

R,
Bullseye

 

[carsinc]

Most likely cause is the hammer pivot pin, especially if you have non-standard grips.

 

[Kobra-428]

agree it sounds like the bolt stop pin and again just "how much persuasion".....we used a BFH.......
any doubt, send it back,,,,,,bottom line its 'fubar' now, so use MORE persuasion......

Interesting advice; I took it and slammed it onto the floor (carpet over concrete slab) MUCH harder than I would hit any of my guns on purpose and what do you know, the bolt went all the way back into battery! The slide and slide lock work just fine now (dry firing, no live rounds) but it feels "gritty" - not normal. I don't have time now to disassemble the pistol, but I surely plan to as soon as I can. Hey, at least I have a place to start now! Once I can get into it hopefully I'll find something that looks obviously out of place.

Thanks so much for the BFH suggestion, once again it seemed to work well! :lol:

I forgot to mention that all the pins in the frame appear to be where they're supposed to be, at least none have walked out of the frame. Now we'll see what toy surprise I can find once I take it apart...

 

[rugerguy]

sounds like a plan to me, yes take it apart, check it out carefully,clean and oil it,look carefully for "marks" rubbing, gouges, etc especially on the INSIDE of the upper receiver.....by the way, my piece of carpet remnant is on my "wooden" work bench,darn, concrete floor, huh, well honestly I've done and used that one myself at a couple of gun shows when I had to take one apart.....like grandad said if it "got jammed, it should unjam....."seriously over the years I've seen some very GOOD and reknowned gunsmiths take a good HARD smack on more that one gun, as well as seen them doing repairs at some of the factories that I had trained at, paid a LOT of attention to what one had to do to pull off a "repair" at times, gotta get them apart...... was taught to build them, then to fix ( or undo) what the public did out in the field.

 

[rugerguy]

oops double tap......

 

[Kobra-428]

Okay, so it appears I was wrong again...

Now that I could get the bolt forward I thought I'd be able to totally take the pistol apart. The mainspring housing comes right out (and the bolt stop pin is just fine, I'm glad to report!). But then no matter how I orient the pistol (trigger pulled or not) the bolt won't come out (hammer strut in its proper position). It gets stuck in its most rearward position, like when it's locked back after the last shot. I can't seem to get it to budge any more than that - based on the dozens of times this pistol has been apart this is far from normal....

When I put it all back together the bolt sometimes goes back into battery on its own and sometimes I need to hit it to get it there. It still feels rather "gritty" when it's going back and forth (again, not normal for this pistol), but the trigger pull feels fine. Based on the gritty feel of the bolt and the fact I can't remove it from the receiver I'm finally going to pack it up for the trip to Ruger. I don't want to keep messing with the bolt knowing something is likely broken in there that's potentially scoring the inside of the receiver. No need to damage it more than it already is!

So thanks once more for all the posts here, I'll get an updated report when I get it back (hopefully in working order!).

 

[Bullseye57]

Still sounds to me as if your recoil spring assembly has failed and is causing the stoppage. So, let me get this straight, when you field strip and try to remove the bolt from the receiver it will not come out of the receiver tube? It gets stuck before coming completely out?

R,
Bullseye

 

[Kobra-428]

Exactly. The bolt only goes back as far as it does during slide lock after the last round is fired. As far as I can see of the bolt (or anything else inside the gun) it all seems normal. Nothing is obviously broken.

 

[Bullseye57]

Does this happen with the receiver tube completely off of the frame?

R,
Bullseye

 

[Kobra-428]

Didn't think I could get the receiver off the frame with the bolt still in, can I? Never tried that, per the user manual of always removing the bolt first.

 

[Bullseye57]

Yes, you can take the receiver off of the frame with the bolt in place as long as the bolt stop (mainspring housing) removed from the frame and the hammer in the back or cocked position. Just tap the receiver forward with a mallet once the hammer is in the fully cocked position, this takes the pistol's hammer out of the travel path for the receiver when it is in the down or cocked position. Once the receiver is removed you can inspect inside the bolt from underneath for any broken parts.

R,
Bullseye

 

[Kobra-428]

Sounds good, I'll give that a try. Thanks!

 

[Bullseye57]

Just be sure to use a protected surface so if the receiver drops off the frame it doesn't get scratched.

R,
Bullseye

 

[louiethelump]

Make sure magazine is out for bolt removal and for upper receiver removal. I have fogotten the magazine in the past and wondered why it would not come apart.

 

[rugerguy]

the carpet remnant 'trick' still works for removing the upper, off the grip frame, good points above, make sure the mag is out!!! and of course the mainspring and bolt stop obviously.......as Bullseye said you can remove the upper with the bolt in if its "stuck" I agree sounds more like the recoil spring assembly, at the top of the bolt,LOOK for the marks on the inside of the receiver tube (upper) when you get it all apart..........been doing LOTS of yard work ,took out some trees and ground them all up all day..........away from the 'puter'...........................

 

[Kobra-428]

Okay, tried to post this yesterday but the site was down. The Mark II has been repaired!

Thanks to the advice here I was able to remove the barrel assembly (with bolt inside) from the receiver. In doing so I saw no signs of metal shavings or anything else that looked wrong. But I was able to get a better feel for the "gritty" feeling when I moved the bolt. It now felt more like a spring being dragged over something. Based on that I figured I'd check an incredibly easy and cheap fix: the little screws for the sight rail on the top of the barrel assembly. I removed the third one back and what do you know, the bolt popped right out! I assumed these holes were blind to prevent such an issue, but obviously I was wrong! 8) That one little screw somehow managed to work its way into the recoil spring just far enough to lock everything up. I wish I had thought of that earlier, but honestly I have to say I love the fact that it was such a simple (and CHEAP!!!!) fix! Now that I was able to get the bolt out I saw that the floor smashing thing that first moved the bolt damaged the recoil spring where that screw was locked onto it, but no worries, a new spring assembly is on its way from Ruger, along with some other rebuild parts (over 10,000 rounds fired through it, I guess it's time to spend all of $16 to ensure proper functioning in the future!).

So there it is, a tiny little screw with a mind of its own caused all of this. Ha!

Thanks again all for your input, it's been much appreciated!

 

[rugerguy]

good for you to 'solve' the porblem, and as I said on the first reply tought to "see" the gun when its not in front of you or even a picture, OBVIOUSLY now that you say a scope (optic) base/mount is on the gun, this is the first thing to look at, happens ALL the time ,more often on rifles and one uses too long of a screw OR even 'locktites' the screws, as well as the bolt "in place".....$#it happens........

 

[Dan in MI]

I have been watching this for info to store on MK-II fixes and I have one question. Was the scope a relatively new addition?

 

[Kobra-428]

Actually the screw was the "filler" that came from the factory (the tiny screws that ensure junk doesn't get into the receiver), I haven't ever mounted a scope or scope mount yet. Honestly I've never even touched any of those screws as I've had no need. Live and learn!

 

[Bullseye57]

Good to hear you found the problem. I'm glad the fix was relatively simple. If you want you can use thread locker sealant to hold those blank-off screws. Be sure to use it when the bolt is out to prevent any seepage from locking the bolt into the receiver. Once cured, you can reinstall everything without any problems later. Much better to solve yourself rather than go through all the steps to send it back to the factory for repairs.

R,
Bullseye

 

[hink]

Sounds like a broken bolt stop pin to me. (the part of the mainspring assy that goes up through the opening in the bolt) I have seen a couple of those break and this of course locks the gun up.

My advice would be to send it to Ruger.

I have a Mark I with a bolt stop pin that broke right at the shoulder to the mainspring housing link (too short a radius?). The bolt didn't do anything weird - just found it when stripping to clean: mainspring housing came out, BSP stayed put (visible atop receiver). Does Ruger want it for post-mortem? Should I replace whole mainspring housing/BSP or just BSP?