Major Shock At The Harley Davidson Service Dept.

[Justice B. Swift]

Actually it was more like an ELECTROCUTION ! I am an experienced mechanic and generally perform most of my own service work and repairs on our cars, trucks, boats, ATVs, UTVs, trailers etc.. Yesterday I was planning to change the oil in my Harley. The dealer and Harley owners refer to it as a "3 Hole oil change" because it involves draining and refilling 3 components, the engine, the transmission, and the Primary drive chain housing. I was feeling a little lazy and decided that I would consider having the selling dealer do the work and include adjusting the drive belt and just giving things a simple going over. I entered the service department and asked "what do you folks charge to do a 3 hole service on my 2017 Dyna." Now at this point no mention had been made of the other service items, just oil and filter. This is when the "electrocution" occurred. Their answer was quick, "all modern bikes are $440." Now, when I came to... and released my death grip on the foot peg next to my head, I sat up and said "sorry, I thought you said $440, but I'm sure I missed it, my hearing is poor." "Yep, you got right, $440. I nearly went down again, but managed to hook my belt buckle over a nearby display rack just in time! Now I exited the service area and went around the corner to the parts counter, where I Purchased the following items: 4 quarts conventional oil (twice the price of Mobil 1 'cause it says HD on it), oil filter, 2 quarts of Formula+_ oil (1 for the tranny and 1 for the primary case), Derby cover gasket, and 3 O-rings for the three drain plugs. At full retail price it set me back $129. Now that translates to $311 dollars in labor. Of course the shop is not paying retail for the parts so If you assume a markup of 100% you might guess that $60-75 is closer to their cost, leaving something around $360-375 as net shop labor. Now to make it worse, I spoke with a former service tech, whom I ride with, and was told that this is how they do oil changes. They get customer bikes three at a time, warm them up and then line them up in a row. Then they process them in rotation, draining all the oils, pulling the filters, opening the dipsticks to vent the cases (speeds draining), replace the plugs, install the new filters and fill the cases, start the engines, and top off as needed. This takes about one hour for THREE bikes. That translates to a shop profit something in the ballpark of $1100 per hour. Thats double the rate of a good Defense Attorney! And you wonder why Harley stock prices are falling faster than a wingless Robin? Guess I'll change it myself and treat myself to a cool beverage when done.

 

[Ride1949]

Ouch! When I sold my last Harley (25 + yrs. ago) I said it was HD-ing me to death. HD being, everything and anything for a HD cost at least a Hundred Dollars. Looks like the price has overtaken the rate of inflation. My 54 yr. old Honda CB750 keeps my knees in the breeze and a smile on my face for a fraction of that cost. (Of course, I don't know if a dealer would, or even could, do anything on the old girl.)

ETA: I guess I should mention, that Harley was a 1947 knucklehead FL. That HundredDollar quoted was for parts only. (Whenever and wherever they could be found.) It was long past the use-by-date of stealership service abilities.

 

[Justice B. Swift]

I had a CB750 in the early 70s with a Kirker 4 into 2 exhaust system. It was a great, reliable, fun bike. Cheap oil changes too.
I'd love to hear that exhaust on yours.

 

[Jeepnik]

And this is why I tell folks they need to do their own maintenance. If you can't the old saying "if it flies, floats or f@@@s rent it" should be your mantra.

 

[Slyk Willy]

Many dealerships around here are not working on bikes over ten years old regardless of the work to be performed.
I have a friend that works the parts dept in my local Honda dealership and asked her regarding having some work done on my '00 Valkyrie. She told me to bring the bike in and she'd have the service manager look at it, which I did. AFTER seeing my bike they agreed to do the requested work.
The service manager explained that they've gotten in so many "basket-cases" that they've had to protect themselves against the never-ending-repair job.

 

[Wvfarrier]

This is why I befriend local self employed mechanics. I have let a couple of them use my hunting cabin, as a result, I can get most anything fixed....from my horse trailer to my tractor to my excavator. Usually for just the cost of the supplies.

 

[GasGuzzler]

Your total number is not profit, it's gross. Techs do not volunteer. In the old days, techs got 1/2 the door rate, then 1/3, then 1/4 and now the average is 20% ... but there's still a cut. Parts mark up is generally 40-50% or cost plus 40-50% so their cost of the parts was likely about $85 leaving $355 for labor. If the motorcycle industry works like the auto industry, the cost of the labor charged is about $25-45 (yes large variable) per FLAGGED hour (not clock time) so the actual profit is likely ... well, depends on the flat rate of the services, and the labor rate but let's try it. $355 per service with the labor cost of that service at $50 leaves $300 in gross profit (not net) and $900 gross profit. Then at the end of month splits, the sales dept. takes about 55% right off the top of the fixed ops. That means for those three services, the net profit (gotta pay the service manager who is paid of gross profit usually plus the service advisor who is usually paid a percentage of labor dollars) for the service department is about $432.

When I started in the automotive business, an oil change was $19.95. It's $100 now. Not all of that is dealer mark up. All stuff costs too much. Commission technician labor dollars have not tripled and neither has the rate the customer pays tripled but almost everything else has. New vehicles and the insurance needed to cover them have tripled in 30 years but the service has not. I guess that means dealers need to raise the rates to be fair and to match other goods and services?

Many dealerships around here are not working on bikes over ten years old regardless of the work to be performed.

I can totally see that in an urban area (I guess there are no motorcycle dealers in the country any more) to avoid the junkers. That's too recent for the auto industry but I do wish we had a 25 year limit. People bring '60's and '70's car in exclaiming we're the Chevy house, if anyone should know how to fix it, we should. But I am the oldest by far at 50 so I wasn't born when those cars were built and we have no service information. I have to go off memory and the internet. The '90's cars fall apart when you touch anything and the parts are discontinued. What a PITA.

 

[Lt92]

I think they have adopted the Mercedes mentality; if U can afford a HD , you must B able to afford the service...not for me...I'll change my own fluids and buy more ammo with the difference

 

[rkrcpa]

In 45 years of riding Harleys I count count on one hand the number of times a dealership worked on my bike.

 

[Ride1949]

And this is why I tell folks they need to do their own maintenance. If you can't the old saying "if it flies, floats or f@@@s rent it" should be your mantra.

Yup. I bought two '71 CB750's in a basket, for $300.00 in 1997, and built the one pictured from those two. One of my friends gave me a (nearly complete) '74 and with it, and the remaining parts from the other '71, I built a cafe racer, (now long gone) and had a stash of parts for future use. I do all my own maintainence and repairs. Always have.

 

[Johnnu2]

I'm 80....... I have never brought a vehicle back to a "Service Dept" in my life. I don't even take the FREE Toyota maintenance (for 2 yrs). Full disclosure, I DID the Toyota 'free maintenance' (oil change & tire rotation) ONCE just to witness it. The next oil change and rotation I did myself and found that they (Toyota) tightened the PLASTIC oil filter cap so tight that I had to us a breaker bar to get it loose. When I buy new cars now, and they try to sell me maintenance insurance, I tell them there's no need, "you'll never see me or my car again until I bring it in for a trade-in".
I heard they charge over $125 to replace a cabin filter.... ($15 from ebay).
AND, don't get me started on the b.s. "required" brake fluid changes. I changed the brake fluid in my 1962 Fuelie Vette ONCE, when it was about 30+ years old. This is a car that saw 100+ mph every time I took it out; and the metallic brakes were used heavily as well. The brake lines were original when I sold the car after 40+ years of fast/hard driving.
OMG,
J.

 

[41Dude]

Years ago was thinking about purchasing a HD. We also test drove Victory's. HD dealer wanted us to give him 3 color choices so when HD caught up to demand in a year or two they would sell us whatever they had. F. That.
Went down to Honda and bought a Valkyrie the same day and rode it home.
HD dealers can kiss my grits.

 

[GasGuzzler]

I heard they charge over $125 to replace a cabin filter.... ($15 from ebay)

By far the largest contributor to bad dealer reputation is misinformed or rumor posts like this. Most of the time the poster is trying to incite an emotional response from the readers and there's no better way to do that than to compare apples to oranges and make leading, half statements.

 

[Johnnu2]

By far the largest contributor to bad dealer reputation is misinformed or rumor posts like this. Most of the time the poster is trying to incite an emotional response from the readers and there's no better way to do that than to compare apples to oranges and make leading, half statements.

I may, indeed, be WRONG.... But my misleading information is actually factual in my specific case....
I'm certainly not trying to incite anything; my apologies if I mislead you.
J

 

[contender]

It used to be, that cars, bikes, boats etc could be easily worked on by a person with moderate skills & the use of a shop manual. Those that did it for a side job were called shade tree mechanics. And many eventually opened their own repair shop.

But the entire industry from the top down has worked,, and yes,, I mean worked at trying to stop that entirely.

Build the stuff to where it requires special tools, or electronic testing equipment to do simple jobs. Add in all kinds of "luxury" features that the maintenance on is hard to perform. Then only allow "authorized dealers & service depts" access to knowledge or parts to fix things.

The INDUSTRY,, and it's not just HD,, does NOT want the average Joe to be capable of working on their own vehicles. They design things to where it is hard to do simple maintenance.
Heck, my Miss Penny had a headlight bulb go out in her 2012 caddy. It required the removal of body parts to replace a bulb. She chose to use a local body shop replace the bulb, and it cost her $140.00in labor. (She'd already bought the bulb.)

I, like many here prefer to do my own maintenance as much as possible, because that is how I've done it all my life. But it's getting harder & harder as vehicles are designed & built to stop that.

 

[Danjet500]

I take all my vehicles (2013 F150, 2014 Mustang GT and 2021 Jeep Cherokee) to a small local shop for all basic services. Cost for an oil change, tire rotation and topping off fluids is $42.95, slightly higher for the truck since it has a 7 quart sump. The shop always has coupons in the local paper so I make sure to take one to get that price. The only time I go to a dealer is if the work needed is beyond what the small shop can or will do. With preventive maintenance that is not very often. I always try to support the small, local business owner.

 

[Johnnu2]

I take all my vehicles (2013 F150, 2014 Mustang GT and 2021 Jeep Cherokee) to a small local shop for all basic services. Cost for an oil change, tire rotation and topping off fluids is $42.95, slightly higher for the truck since it has a 7 quart sump. The shop always has coupons in the local paper so I make sure to take one to get that price. The only time I go to a dealer is if the work needed is beyond what the small shop can or will do. With preventive maintenance that is not very often. I always try to support the small, local business owner.

I must live in a high cost area because you won't get an oil change and tire rotation for that price here.... We have a great local repair shop too... as I get older, I do use him for things I won't do myself any longer i.e. 2009 Subaru timing belt. BTW that cabin filter quote was for a friend with a Hyundai (and included tax)... I did the filter for him; he got the filter on ebay I think.
J.

 

[GasGuzzler]

I may, indeed, be WRONG.... But my misleading information is actually factual in my specific case

When you write "I heard" it means you don't know for sure. And posting something you don't know for sure can lead to a lot of incorrect tentacles to a story. That's all I am saying.

 

[Hawk-in-Wi]

I just had our 2014 Town & Country in for a oil change , had it done at the Dealer where we purchased the car and told them before hand just a oil and filter change nothing else ..,

now they replaced the cabin filter last fall during the service but they felt the need to pull & inspect it again , gave me a call and said it had a mouse nest in/on it and should be replaced again , I didn't feel like messing around with it after I would have gotten it home so just told them to take care of it , cost $ 23 and change for the filter and $ 40 to put it in . what a rip off

if I would have told them no that I would do it, they would have put the old filter back in and there would have been no charge , because they took it out without asking about it first

 

[hittman]

Just had the first 1000 mile service done on my 2025 Road Glide. Local shop I’ve been to for 25 years charged me $239.00 OTD. Don’t know what the dealer charges.

My friend and neighbor used to service his 2013 Silverado on his own. Basic oil and filter change, rotate tires, check all fluid levels, etc. He asked why I was still taking my 2021 Silverado to the dealership for the same service. Long story short …… he was getting his fluids at WalMart, performing the labor himself and saved a whopping $16.00 from what the dealer charges me.

They serviced by pickup just a couple weeks back. Called to tell me cabin filter was filthy ( no surprise after 3.5 years and 25k miles ) I authorized the new filter and it was $31.00 installed.

 

[hittman]

Oh, and some consumers reap what they sow. Just sayin’.

 

[Yaworski]

AND, don't get me started on the b.s. "required" brake fluid changes. I changed the brake fluid in my 1962 Fuelie Vette ONCE, when it was about 30+ years old.

Always smart to introduce corrosive elements into your brake system. However, you do you.

 

[Yaworski]

I can believe the quote for the cabin air filter. I replaced mine and swore "never again."

Where dealerships get you is on parts.

 

[41Dude]

I never replace the cabin filter. I just hold my breath until I arrive at my destination.

 

[Fox Mike]

It's not just Harley. My son has rebuilt three Kawasaki Ninja engines (actually two and is working on the third). The price of parts is bank-breaking and every bike seems to have one "special" electronic gizmo that only works on one specific model. His 1100 Honda is full of 'high priced' special to that bike only parts. We won't even talk about the dealer prices for service.

 

[Slyk Willy]

Your total number is not profit, it's gross. Techs do not volunteer. In the old days, techs got 1/2 the door rate, then 1/3, then 1/4 and now the average is 20% ... but there's still a cut. Parts mark up is generally 40-50% or cost plus 40-50% so their cost of the parts was likely about $85 leaving $355 for labor. If the motorcycle industry works like the auto industry, the cost of the labor charged is about $25-45 (yes large variable) per FLAGGED hour (not clock time) so the actual profit is likely ... well, depends on the flat rate of the services, and the labor rate but let's try it. $355 per service with the labor cost of that service at $50 leaves $300 in gross profit (not net) and $900 gross profit. Then at the end of month splits, the sales dept. takes about 55% right off the top of the fixed ops. That means for those three services, the net profit (gotta pay the service manager who is paid of gross profit usually plus the service advisor who is usually paid a percentage of labor dollars) for the service department is about $432.

I understand the policy as well. I've seen way too many MC riders NEVER even take the side covers off their bike let alone check for preventive maintenance. The "ride it till it dies" mentality makes my cringe.

 

[Dan Carey]

In 45 years of riding Harleys I count count on one hand the number of times a dealership worked on my bike.

Yeah...The day before I bought mine was the last time a dealer worked on mine!

 

[wproct]

I'm 80 years old and bought my first motorcycle back in 1972, a Honda CB175. Then over the next years I also owned Yamaha and Kawasaki. Through those years I serviced my own bikes which only consisted changing oil and filters and batteries and adjusting chains. I never had any thoughts of owning a Harley, they were expensive and known to constantly need service. Then around 1985 I started riding with a guy who had a Suzuki but all he could talk about was Harleys and in 1991 he bought a Sportster. Within about a year or so I started to catch the Harley fever and in 1992 I bought my first one, a FXRS-Convertible. Now oil changes were three separate processes, engine oil, primary chain case oil, and transmission oil. Primary chain needed adjusting as well as the final drive belt. That's when I decided to let a mechanic handle all of that. Likewise, I used to change oil and filter in our car because my neighbor did his own also. Within a few years I decided to let the dealer or a private auto service do that as well.

 

[protoolman]

We have a big motorsports dealer here. Any job there will easily be in the hundreds. They have to pay about 15 employees. Two small shops each have 2 technicians who double as cashiers. One is a Harley shop at 4.5 stars the best in town and the other is a dirt bike, 4 wheeler place, also good. Both small shops work at about a third the shop rate of the big guy. I needed a fuel petcock last year. $150 from Honda and 100$ install plus tax. I changed it myself in about 1/2 hour for $40 which was too much for the diaphragm I put in it to rebuild the old one. I think a Chinese petcock complete was $15 on e-bay but unknown quality.

 

[g5m]

I may, indeed, be WRONG.... But my misleading information is actually factual in my specific case....
I'm certainly not trying to incite anything; my apologies if I mislead you.
J

Thanks for that. I still remeber a review of the Corvettes from then: "As you stab the nearly fade-proof cerametallic brakes.....".
And then there was the tv show 'Route 66'.