M855 from Pats Reloading

[daveg.inkc]

I ordered 1000 of these bullets. When I opened box, no green tip. So I got a live M855 round from ammo box. Used scotch brite and removed green paint, they look alike. Then I used a magnet to pull both across table. Cool, huh? I talked to a retired worker from Lake City today, and asked if they make primers and bullets there. He told me they make everything there. So, time to get more 748 and CFE 223 IMR 4166

 

[daveg.inkc]

Checked the weight, .0627 grs. I bet they shoot good

 

[loaded round]

Love the 62 gr M855 bullet (sans green tip) in my AR556 and my new Springfield Saint using Hodgdon's CFE-223. Varget also works well.

 

[daveg.inkc]

These are Amor-piercing. "Steel tip" This retiree told me he was surprised I could buy these. I thought there was some lead in them He said not. Copper coated FMJ. I was surprised a magnet will pull them

 

[DGW1949]

These are Amor-piercing. "Steel tip" This retiree told me he was surprised I could buy these. I thought there was some lead in them He said not. Copper coated FMJ. I was surprised a magnet will pull them

That is a common misconception...
M855 "green tip" is not considered to be "armor piercing" by our military, nor was it designed to be. It merely has a steel tip which was put there to help it penetrate a Russian helmet at a longer distance than will an M193 bullet.

On the other hand, there is a much-different 5.56 AP bullet available. Thing is though, due to it's totally different construction, it is much longer than the M855 bullet, a hair heavier, was loaded with a specific powder which is not available to us mere mortals, and as far as I know there has been no published reference materials on how to safely load it with any other powder.
You can however, buy the bullets. Although availability is spotty...the last time I looked, Pat's had 'em in stock.
Best as I remember, cost plus shipping came purty-close to being a dollar each....but hey, if ya wanna dance, ya got's to pay the fiddler, right? :lol: :lol: :lol: .

DGW

 

[daveg.inkc]

DGW,, this is what the employees of Lake City call it. I have seen tungsten tipped,black. 5.56x45 that would shoot through armor plate. I acquired a strip, 3/8" thick. Nothing I had would go thru. Until this black tip was used. It did punch a hole.

 

[daveg.inkc]

$140.00 divided by1000= .14 a round

 

[DGW1949]

$140.00 divided by1000= .14 a round

Yes...that is about right for M855/SS-109 bullets.
However, as can be seen here, it is not even close to what M855A1 AP bullets cost:
https://americanreloading.com/en/72-22-caliber-222-227

In other words, M855(green tip) and M855A1 bullets are distinctly different, hence the different pricing.

DGW

 

[daveg.inkc]

That M855A1 is a mean looking round. It says "No longer available". I want to try a tracer round

 

[DGW1949]

DGW,, this is what the employees of Lake City call it. I have seen tungsten tipped,black. 5.56x45 that would shoot through armor plate. I acquired a strip, 3/8" thick. Nothing I had would go thru. Until this black tip was used. It did punch a hole.

I don't know what you mean by "black tip" 5.56 .
Unless it's been cleaned off, US Military M855 has a green-painted jacket tip.
M855A1 is not painted but it's pointed, one-piece (solid) core extends well past it's jacket material...and as a result, the exposed portion will tarnish to a sort of dark brownish color.
You can get a better visual of what I'm trying to say by looking at the appropriate photos supplied in this link:
https://americanreloading.com/en/72-22-caliber-222-227

If you care to study the in's and out's of various US Mil-spec 5.56 bullets and/or the ammo each are used in, and why the different types were developed...there's pages and pages of solid information available via a simple google search.
In the mean time, I'll just suffice it to reiterate that no, common "green tip" M855 ammo is not anywhere close to being "AP" ammo in the traditional sense, nor was it ever intended to be.

In other words, a short steel tip sitting atop of a lead core does not an AP bullet make...and never has. But don't take my word for it, do your own research.

DGW

 

[daveg.inkc]

I agree with you DGW. I did go there good reading. I have a few rounds of this ammo that went thru armor plate. Maybe they are the A1 rounds. And perhaps this man was referring to A1 as AP. I know nothing about this NATO , military round other than what I read. This man, uncle to my son in law. Retired from Lake City. I asked him a few questions at my grandsons party yesterday. I told him I had purchased M855 green tips to reload. He said he did not know it was available to civilians. He then called it AP rounds. I read that site DGW. I'd like to buy tracers now. Thanks

 

[DGW1949]

Just in passing....Depending on barrel length and the distance it's being fired at, NATO-spec M855 ammo will indeed pass through 3/8" mild steel. I've done it.
As a point of comparison, M855A1 ammo will not only do the same, but will also do it at twice the distance.
Regardless though, do note that mild steel is not as difficult to penetrate as a lot of folks think. Many common hunting rounds will penetrate it too, point being that mild steel is not nearly as tuff as "armor plate"...apples to oranges.

As far as the tracers you mention, you can put me down as a fan...meaning that they have a couple of serious (if rather limited) applications beyond their intended purpose. Or perhaps in the interest of political correctness I should say potential applications.
Do be careful with them though, least ya accidently set something on fire.

DGW

 

[jsh]

Dave, a large majority of FMJ are mild steel, gilded with some kind of copper wash. When the SKS first hit the market back in the 80's for cheap, 7.62x39 was cheaper than 22 mag ammo. Shot up about 5k in one summer and a bunch a f us ordered another batch of rifles and ammo. That stuff would not shoot into a bucket. I pulled some bullets and cut the jacket off of them, they had a steel slug inside rather than a lead core. The steel core was off center of the jacket. The things went into a yaw at about 40 yards.

I have spoken to a couple of guys that worked at LC, and was not impressed. For them to be making ammo for our boys in the service was kind of scary to say the least.

 

[daveg.inkc]

I've shot the M193 and M855 in my Mini 14 with excellent results. No complaints. Breaking rocks at 300 yrds. With my AR 556. Mostly reloads with 69 & 77 Sierra Match. You are wrong with idea that LC is poor quality. I dont hear any terriost complaining on poor bullet performance! This surplus has shot well for me.

 

[jsh]

NO WHERE in that post did I say LC was poor quality!
I have shot LC for years and years with zero issues.

I mentioned I was not impressed with some people that work there. I have known and am good friends with some that worked there up until the 90's. The ones I spoke to a while back, were not the sharpest pencils in the box.
I did not mean in any way LC was poor quality ammo. The ones working there shocked me.

My reference to the 7.62x39 was just that.

 

[Mobuck]

I still don't understand why folks feel the need to use the M855 type bullets for targets. There are much better, safer, and more accurate choices on the market. When you start melding several components into a bullet design, this incorporates imperfections-a simple fact of production.
If(and that's a BIG if) the heavier bullets are that much more accurate in your firearm, shoot heavier bullets. There are numerous varieties that mimic the weight and length of the "pseudo" AP bullet but are much safer and/or less destructive to backstops and such.

 

[daveg.inkc]

I just want the bullets that group best So far, it's been the 69, 77 HPBT. I bought a few boxes of M 193 and M855 when ammo scare was happening. Actually bought every ammo box filled with Lake City that could. Just in case,,,,,,,, I did hit a 5 inch steel plate with 62 Green tip from Mini 14 that broke it free from welded chain. Never found it. I know about where it is, couldn't have gone from far from 150 yrd shot.

 

[daveg.inkc]

"13 Cent Killers" the 5th Marine snipers of VietNam, by John Culbertson. That's what a 7.62x51 cost in 1967. Very good book. Author speaks of Lake City Ammo. If you like to read about Marines shooting VC.

 

[DGW1949]

I still don't understand why folks feel the need to use the M855 type bullets for targets. There are much better, safer, and more accurate choices on the market. When you start melding several components into a bullet design, this incorporates imperfections-a simple fact of production.
If(and that's a BIG if) the heavier bullets are that much more accurate in your firearm, shoot heavier bullets. There are numerous varieties that mimic the weight and length of the "pseudo" AP bullet but are much safer and/or less destructive to backstops and such.

You are of course, correct.
What you ain't "getting" though is that for some folks, owning a 5.56 semi-auto is not all about shooting from a bench while chasing 3-shot groups on paper in search of bragging rights. If it was, we'd be discussing Nosler's, Sierra Match bullets, bench rest primers, etc. instead of various NATO bullets.
In other words, if/when one might need to put a 5.56 to a serious use, it ain't going to matter one bit whether their gun/ammo combination shoots sub-MOA or 2.5-MOA. What will matter though, is that it launches an appropriate bullet for the task at hand.

DGW

 

[daveg.inkc]

All I hear, is how much more accurate an AR -15 is over a Mini-14. I have both I will put Mini up any AR. AR556 is very accurate. 1 1/2 group 150 yrds. Maybe more. What I found is 69 gr and up is what these like. In the meantime, I'm going to Pats and order another 1000 of m855's. Plus the ones that light up at night

 

[DGW1949]

All I hear, is how much more accurate an AR -15 is over a Mini-14. I have both I will put Mini up any AR. AR556 is very accurate. 1 1/2 group 150 yrds. Maybe more. What I found is 69 gr and up is what these like. In the meantime, I'm going to Pats and order another 1000 of m855's. Plus the ones that light up at night

I'm going to steer clear of the AR VS Mini-14 debate, but I will say this much:
I've shot up a crap-load of factory-loaded "M855 ammo" while testing the loadings which are available from various manufacturers, and can tell you for sure that not all M855-type ammo the same in terms of consistency/accuracy.
On the other hand, I can't say for sure whether the rather large discrepancy which I've found between the various "brands" is due to the specific powders each uses, primers, QC differences, or possibly the difference in the actual bullet being used (meaning that all M855 bullets are not the same either)...the point there being that I for one, would be very interested in seeing the results you get from developing your own "M855 type" hand load using LC's version of the bullet.

DGW

 

[daveg.inkc]

I loaded BL-c(2) yesterday. I'm going to use CFE-223 748, 4198, 4166. Set them at 2000 MPH,,,errrr 3000 FPS. I needed a .223 last evening, cooking on grill, about 5:30. A mangy, sick looking coyote came within 60 yrds in backyard. Houses all around,, shooting impossible. But he was certainly brave. Looking for a cat or poodle, maybe?

 

[DGW1949]

I loaded BL-c(2) yesterday. I'm going to use CFE-223 748, 4198, 4166. Set them at 2000 MPH,,,errrr 3000 FPS. I needed a .223 last evening, cooking on grill, about 5:30. A mangy, sick looking coyote came within 60 yrds in backyard. Houses all around,, shooting impossible. But he was certainly brave. Looking for a cat or poodle, maybe?

Or looking for what it smelled cooking?... :lol: .

DGW

 

[daveg.inkc]

He was a mangy, sick looking critter. Maybe Contender could help me. 14 hour drive? That will be a big service call!