LOADING a 454 Casull Red Hawk

[gunsmif]

Hi Iam a custom gunsmith in New Mexico. Just aquired my first Super Red Hawk in 454 Casull. Iam an experienced reloader. The quandry I have is when I use Win. 296 or IMR 4227 in the proper manual ammount with a Speer 250gr. Gold Dot bullet i have a compressed load condition. Always stayed away from compressed loads. Is this a common thing with a 454 Casull? Any info would be appreciated, Thanks

 

[TCGuy]

I've loaded up 300 grain jacketed bullets with 31 grains of H110, and it does compress slightly. .454 is a high-pressure round, so you should be ok, assuming you are using data from a reputable source.

Here's an article that might be of interest: http://www.chuckhawks.com/454casull.htm

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I don`t own a .454 but do load lots of IMR 4227 loads in .357, .41 Mag. ,.44 Mag.
and .45 Colt. The upper end loads are often compressed in all of those .
I also used to shy away from compressed loads but find no issues with them.
That said, I check all loads with two or more load manuals. It makes me feel better.

 

[6gun]

How many grains of powder are you loading using 296 and 4227 and what the source of your data?

My Speer manual shows for 250 gr. bullet loading 4227 powder starting load 27.0 grs. Max. load 29.0C grs. C after the zero means compressed load.

So at max loads it is common to have compressed loads.

No data for 296 in my Speer manual using 250gr. bullet, does show296 data for 300gr. bullet

 

[LaneP]

H110 and W296 give the most efficient combustion at or near 100% loading density and touched off with a magnum small rifle primer. Some loads may go above 100% and be slightly compressed. Completely normal for those powder and particularly when loaded in powder burning furnaces like the .454.

 

[LaneP]

How many grains of powder are you loading using 296 and 4227 and what the source of your data?

My Speer manual shows for 250 gr. bullet loading 4227 powder starting load 27.0 grs. Max. load 29.0C grs. C after the zero means compressed load.

So at max loads it is common to have compressed loads.

No data for 296 in my Speer manual using 250gr. bullet, does show296 data for 300gr. bullet

Hodgdon http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ gives identical charges and pressures for both H110 and W296 using a 250 grain bullet. Starting: 27.5 grains and 45,100 CUP | Maximum: 28.5 grains and 52,300 CUP

They show the same 250 grain bullet over H4227- Starting: 26 grains and 40,800 CUP | Maximum: 28.5C and 50,000 CUP

 

[6gun]

How many grains of powder are you loading using 296 and 4227 and what the source of your data?

My Speer manual shows for 250 gr. bullet loading 4227 powder starting load 27.0 grs. Max. load 29.0C grs. C after the zero means compressed load.

So at max loads it is common to have compressed loads.

No data for 296 in my Speer manual using 250gr. bullet, does show296 data for 300gr. bullet

Hodgdon http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ gives identical charges and pressures for both H110 and W296 using a 250 grain bullet. Starting: 27.5 grains and 45,100 CUP | Maximum: 28.5 grains and 52,300 CUP

They show the same 250 grain bullet over H4227- Starting: 26 grains and 40,800 CUP | Maximum: 28.5C and 50,000 CUP

I figured Hodgdon site would have data for 296 but load data wasn't the OP's question he was asking if it was common to have a compressed load for 454 so I showed him using H4227 using a max load it was, I knew 296 wasn't a compressed load so I didn't search for data on it, volume differs on different powder types, 296 is a smaller volume per grain that H4227.

 

[dougader]

The Speer 250 grain Gold Dot is a pretty soft bullet for a full-tilt load. It was originally designed to open up at old 45 Colt, 14k psi, pressure/velocity.

IIRC, Speer 14 suggests loading this bullet to only about 36k psi as opposed to the 454 Casull SAAMI Max of 55k - 65k psi.

Lightly compressed is ok, but I would not use a heavily compressed load of WW296. Even slow pistol powders can spike if they are over- loaded. I'd be sure and start low, per the data, and work up slow while looking for excessive pressure signs.

 

[6gun]

The Speer 250 grain Gold Dot is a pretty soft bullet for a full-tilt load. It was originally designed to open up at old 45 Colt, 14k psi, pressure/velocity.

IIRC, Speer 14 suggests loading this bullet to only about 36k psi as opposed to the 454 Casull SAAMI Max of 55k - 65k psi.

Lightly compressed is ok, but I would not use a heavily compressed load of WW296. Even slow pistol powders can spike if they are over- loaded. I'd be sure and start low, per the data, and work up slow while looking for excessive pressure signs.

No load data I have seen shows a compressed load for 296, if your 296 needs compressing your way over max. to start with.

 

[dougader]

The Speer 250 grain Gold Dot is a pretty soft bullet for a full-tilt load. It was originally designed to open up at old 45 Colt, 14k psi, pressure/velocity.

IIRC, Speer 14 suggests loading this bullet to only about 36k psi as opposed to the 454 Casull SAAMI Max of 55k - 65k psi.

Lightly compressed is ok, but I would not use a heavily compressed load of WW296. Even slow pistol powders can spike if they are over- loaded. I'd be sure and start low, per the data, and work up slow while looking for excessive pressure signs.

No load data I have seen shows a compressed load for 296, if your 296 needs compressing your way over max. to start with.

You must not read much. It took me exactly 15 seconds to open up Speer 14, 454 Casull, pages 997 and 998. C stands for compressed. I see it on both pages. Twice for 4227, once for H110 and once for 296... :shock:

 

[6gun]

The Speer 250 grain Gold Dot is a pretty soft bullet for a full-tilt load. It was originally designed to open up at old 45 Colt, 14k psi, pressure/velocity.

IIRC, Speer 14 suggests loading this bullet to only about 36k psi as opposed to the 454 Casull SAAMI Max of 55k - 65k psi.

Lightly compressed is ok, but I would not use a heavily compressed load of WW296. Even slow pistol powders can spike if they are over- loaded. I'd be sure and start low, per the data, and work up slow while looking for excessive pressure signs.

No load data I have seen shows a compressed load for 296, if your 296 needs compressing your way over max. to start with.

You must not read much. It took me exactly 15 seconds to open up Speer 14, 454 Casull, pages 997 and 998. C stands for compressed. I see it on both pages. Twice for 4227, once for H110 and once for 296... :shock:

Not going to argue with you, yes C stands for compressed, if you read my first post you would see I already said that, you must not read much the OP is loading 250gr. bullet which is page 997 there is no data for H110 or 296 on page 996, there is N110 and that's a different powder, page 998 is 300gr. bullets yes it shows H110 and 296 but ONCE AGAIN OP IS NOT LOADING 300GR. BULLET he is loading 250GR. BULLET

And if you had read Highspeedlane's post showing Hodgdon's web site's data for 250gr. bullet using 296 powder max. is 27.5 Hodgdon is NOT CALLING IT OUT AS A COMPRESSED LOAD, sure add a larger bullet it will become a compressed load but that is NOT what the OP is loading, understand now???

 

[dougader]

Well, USING CAPS is considered yelling on the internet... and you sure come across as arguing.

Your exact words were:

No load data I have seen shows a compressed load for 296.

Which is extremely vague and, therefore, patently incorrect. WW296/H110 is commonly listed as compressed loads in the 454 as well as 327 Federal, 357 mag, 357 max, and even 480 Ruger (in Lyman 49th.) Further, you'll see alot more compressed loads if you look at the Freedom Arms data for the 454.

FA260JFP W296 34.0 1789 44,400 37.0 1977 53,100

I imagine 37 grains of 296 with their 260 grain bullet is compressed.

But thank you for correcting your vague statement to specify, exactly, that you were talking about the 250 grain bullet. 8)

Youl'll notice that I also specifically referenced the 250 grain Gold Dot bullet in my post...

...and then wrote a separate paragraph about compressed loads with 296.

A max charge in 454 (reaching 55k - 65k psi) is not even recommended with the 250 GD, let alone a compressed charge of 296.

 

[6gun]

Well, USING CAPS is considered yelling on the internet... and you sure come across as arguing.

Your exact words were:

No load data I have seen shows a compressed load for 296.

Which is extremely vague and, therefore, patently incorrect. WW296/H110 is commonly listed as compressed loads in the 454 as well as 327 Federal, 357 mag, 357 max, and even 480 Ruger (in Lyman 49th.) Further, you'll see alot more compressed loads if you look at the Freedom Arms data for the 454.

FA260JFP W296 34.0 1789 44,400 37.0 1977 53,100

I imagine 37 grains of 296 with their 260 grain bullet is compressed.

But thank you for correcting your vague statement to specify, exactly, that you were talking about the 250 grain bullet. 8)

Youl'll notice that I also specifically referenced the 250 grain Gold Dot bullet in my post...

...and then wrote a separate paragraph about compressed loads with 296.

A max charge in 454 (reaching 55k - 65k psi) is not even recommended with the 250 GD, let alone a compressed charge of 296.

I wouldn't ever shoot anything you loaded you don't pay any attention to critical details like bullet or powder weight, your to busy blabbing about everything else that has nothing to do with the topic and to busy trying to prove you know it all you don't focus on the load at hand.

 

[dougader]

And your English grammar isn't worth a hoot, so there. 8)

I've been handloading since the 80's with no problems.

Speak plain English and we'll all be there with you.

 

[6gun]

Yeah and I've been loading since the 1970's zero problems ever, and I typed this real slow cause I know you can't read to fast. :lol:

 

[dougader]

Too fast, Merlin. 8)