Loading 451 speer jacketed hollow points question?

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George

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Just wondering picked up a hundred of speer 260 grain 451size jacketed hollow points. They don't look serrated to help the bullet split apart evenly as it expands like most do today . looks like a straight LED rings just passed the jacket. Assuming these are older Speer bullets. What I am wondering is do I load these for 45 ACP I think they would work well for that. On the jacket of the bullet it doesn't have the typical Colts crimping Groove they are serrated at the crimping groove. Or would they be suitable for 45 Colt also? I didn't know if I would be able to crimp them tight enough in the serrations on the jacket to hold the bullets in place on the hoter loads Maybe Ruger only loads" would be used for 45 Colt. Just wanted to make the best use of these they would not be used for target shooting of course I would shoot some just to see how they performed. That would be for defensive purposes on larger game if needed or for 2 legged predators. Your thoughts. My biggest concern is the crimped lack of a crimp Groove around the jacket of the bullet instead of a typical Long Colt 45 type actual Groove for the cramp. As it is only serrated all the way around the bullet where the crimp Groove would normally be. Thank you George PS part number of the Speer bullets is 4481 if that helps!
 

Jimbo357mag

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If this is the bullet the crimp groove is not very deep but it is there to use. Just watch them for crimp jump with heavy loads. Probably nothing to worry about. I load a lot of plated bullets without any crimp groove.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010886838/speer-bullets-45-caliber-451-diameter-260-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-50
 

George

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Thanks Jim, you nailed it they are the bullets! Pick the Box up from someone on the boards here. Figured I'd try some jacketed bullets with some Colt loads. I have a mid frame Rugert flat top that I bought a couple years ago for standard pressure loads but I also picked up a 2-digit large frame Ruger Vaquero that will handle Ruger only loads! Figured the jacketed bullets would handle the velocity I'm going to be pushing them at much better than plain lead. Have not been reloading that awful long. I'll just give them a good tight crimp in that Groove and like you say watch for bullet jump. I'll load 6 fire one round check them fire the next round check them and continue until I shoot all six provided I have no bullet jump. That sounds like the way to go. If I max out the load or have bullet jump I will back down on Powder a bit until I feel comfortable. Also can I shoot these bullets in a 1911 45 ? I suppose I should get my loading manual out and that will tell me . Thanks so much! George
 

Mus408

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I picked up the same style Speer bullet but in .44 Mag and loaded with 10 gr. of Unique clocked at
1030 FPS. out of my S&W M-69 with 4.2 barrel.
Result was little expansion measuring .500 diameter but did stop in 6th water jug.
Have to run them hot!

Getting a good crimp was no problem.

Would love to find the .45 Colt Gold Dots but they are hard to come by.
 

rangerbob

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George, those serrations as you call them is known as the cannelure, which is the correct point on the bullet to crimp them. Cannelures are seen most often on rifle bullets, such as military 55, 62, and 147 grain NATO bullets and a lot of Hornady bullets, both pistol and rifle. Bob! :D
 

Paul B

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"Also can I shoot these bullets in a 1911 45 ? I suppose I should get my loading manual out and that will tell me . Thanks so much! George"

I'm not saying you can't but my thought is it's too heavy a bullet for .45 ACP. Short stubby case with a heavier than standard bullet could mean trouble. Unique would be too fast and 2400? Certainly there's no data I know about. Velocity wouldn't be fast enough for the bullet to be effective, I would think. I'm too fond of my 1911s to want to try and the only ACP revolver I have is an old model Blackhawk .45 with Colt and ACP cylinders and I'm sure not gonna gamble with that one. I think it's not a good idea.
Paul B.
 

gunzo

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A bullet designed approximately 40 years ago for heavier 45 Colt loads.

As has been said, not a good choice for the ACP. Even published load data will be challenging to find.
 

grobin

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The chances of finding a useable load are small. The case capacity is against you! This is similar to the problem with 9mm loads in a PCC. In this case the longer barrel requires a slower powder and the case doesn't have enough room for most. In your case sufficient load of a fast enough powder is needed and again not enough room, particularly limited COL with a longer bullet, plus likely over pressure problems. I would not go there unless I had access to a test pressure barrel or didn't mind blowing up some guns.
 

mikld

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I agree with PaulB. Possible to do, but I wouldn't. Besides a bullet 30 grains heavier and longer than a "normal" 45 ACP bullet, where would a newer reloader find reliable/tested load data? I would not recommend a newer reloader speculate or try to extrapolate data for an uncommon combination of components...
 

George

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Hey everyone, thank you very much! As usual some great information here. I will save the Speer bullets for my heavier Colt loadings. Keep their velocity up to make use of the hollow point. Don't want to waste them. I have a medium frame 45 flat top convertible three digit prefix. I don't feel I will get the velocity out of that one for these bullets. Will mainly use them in my large frame designate them as such as not to mix up loads intention mark them well and use Chrome plated cases to make it clear what they will be used in. I did hear some use 250g bullets in their 45 acps that's the only reason I was wondering if these would be useful. If they're not going to expand like they supposed to at those velocities it makes no sense to run then in that gun let alone possibly beat the gun up! Thanks again great information I'm taking it all in and going to try to use it all wisely! George
 

George

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I have some Western powders that if I remember right will get velocities up while keeping pressure down in comparison to say unique. I believe I have number two number five number 7 and number 9 in western powder. I know some of them look promising in Colt 45 Ruger only loads! I'll have to look them up I'm just going by memory. Again thank you! George
 

George

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One last question. What's the minimum velocity needed for expansion with these Speer bullets? I've got a large frame Ruger Vaquero? So Ruger only loads can be used in it. Could I make this bullet effective in this revolver? George
 

George

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One last question. What's the minimum velocity needed for expansion with these Speer bullets? I've got a large frame Ruger Vaquero? So Ruger only loads can be used in it. Could I make this bullet effective in this revolver? George
 

George

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One last question. What's the minimum velocity needed for expansion with these Speer bullets? I've got a large frame Ruger Vaquero? So Ruger only loads can be used in it. Could I make this bullet effective in this revolver? George
 

George

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One last question. What's the minimum velocity needed for expansion with these Speer bullets? I've got a large frame Ruger Vaquero? So Ruger only loads can be used in it. Could I make this bullet effective in this revolver? George
 

JCK

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There's actually quite a bit of data available. Mostly from powder manufacturer's web sites. Lee's #2 also.
No, they won't give good expansion from a .45acp, but they're already .45" and flat nose.
 
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