Lee factory crimp die ?'s

[gunzo]

Considering one for .223 to load for AR's with canalured bullets. Anybody use one ? If so, does it work ok?
Been trying to crimp with the bullet seater die of my RCBS set & the die isn't quite right. I know RCBS would try their best to help me with a repair or another die, but thought I'd try the Lee & just add an operation & crimp separately.
Would like some feedback if available. Thanks

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I use one for every caliber I load, both rifle and handgun. I don't load .223 on a regular basis, but have done so using the FCD on cannelured bullets. It did a rather nice job for ammo used in two or three ARs plus one bolt action rifle!

Only caveat about the FCD is one must both RTFM and practice the art of a gentle touch with the adjustments! Lee's instructions offer just a starting point, and while they talk about half turns, I've found some load combos work best when adjustments are made in only 1/4 or even 1/8 turn increments. The rifle dies can be adjusted all the way from just barely kissing the brass to a full military four segment style crimp. Done carefully, good results should ensue. Some folks complain about the FCD, and if they're making their adjustments in 1/2 turns, I can see where they could have problems.

Remember to "Test, test, test!", too, as one of our most experienced members here used to remind us frequently!

Rick C

 

[Jimbo357mag]

The Lee's FCD, in rifle calibers, puts a squeeze around just the very top of the case. It is not a roll crimp and it works on bullets with or without a cannelure. The dies I use for 30-30 and 308 work great. Like Contender said just add a little bit of crimp till you get the amount you want. ...and in rifle calibers the exact length of the case doesn't matter like with a roll crimp. The shell holder is what pushes up to activate the crimper hands.

 

[gunzo]

Thanks so much fellas, exactly what I needed to know !

 

[mikld]

I only crimp one rifle round, that's 30-06 for my Garand. My others (bolt guns and single shots) aren't normally crimped but I have used a Lee collet crimp for "testing". In my single shot .223 I did notice a slight increase in accuracy with a couple loads, but not consistent across the board...

 

[Ka6otm]

I use the FCD on .223 with cannelure and it works very well. I also use it on all handgun calibers I reload with good results also.

Use with confidence.

 

[bayou5252]

For me, Lee FCDs work and work well. I have one for each pistol and rifle caliber I load.

Bayou

 

[gunzo]

Thanks again, it's less than 12 bucks at Midsouth Shooters Supply & in stock so I'm not stressing about it. But I wanted to ask cause I didn't want to order another gadget or trinket for the heck of it. If you saw my reloading room you'ld understand.
On second thought, I'll show it.

 

[bayou5252]

^^^ Very nicely organized. I even think I see a spot for your new FCD....

 

[mikewriter]

I also use one for all calibers I reload for. Just got one in I ordered for my .401 Herter's. Since Lee doesn't really make one for that caliber, I decided to try a .41 mag FCD, and i certainly appears to be working fine.

Mike

 

[gramps]

Thanks again, it's less than 12 bucks at Midsouth Shooters Supply & in stock so I'm not stressing about it. But I wanted to ask cause I didn't want to order another gadget or trinket for the heck of it. If you saw my reloading room you'ld understand.
On second thought, I'll show it.

It looks like you are Midsouth Shooter Supply! :mrgreen: Good luck
gramps

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

If my loading area ever looked like that, I'd think the gods of organization had finally smiled upon me!

If you don't already have some of them, Lee sells a four die flat box, kinda like your RCBS boxes, as an extra for a pretty low price. I started using 'em for those extra "orphan" dies that just show up on the doorstep and they do help organize some. Titan Reloading is a good source for all things Lee.

Rick C

 

[mikld]

FWIW; Many don't mention the difference between Lee FCDs for rifle cartridges and handgun cartridges when discussing a thread like this one. Two completely different tools. A rifle FCD is a collet crimp that gives an even ring of compression at the case mouth. The FCD for handguns is just a "post crimping sizing die", which just covers up poor reloads/methods....

 

[woodperson]

Not sure I agree with the last part of the statement above. I use the FCD for crimping on my .357 and .41 mag loads. I could crimp with the bullet seating die but instead use the FCD die. What am I missing here or doing wrong? I do know that when I use the RCBS or Redding taper crimp dies for these loads the shells still fit in the chamber fine. So I do not think the FCD is just "covering up" any poor methods. Maybe it would do that if there were problems. Is that a bad thing?

 

[Rick Courtright]

What am I missing here or doing wrong?

Hi,

Methinks the gentleman was on track until the comment in question. Many of us find it more convenient, more reliable, more consistent, or just plain easier to do the seating/crimping tasks in two steps rather than dinking around getting a combo seating/crimp die adjusted "just right" to do the job in one step, only to have to redo it when the next round of brass comes thru that's not exactly the same length as the previous one. And so forth... it's a matter of preference for many. Nothing more, or less.

You're doing nothing wrong, woodperson. Just doing it differently, as well as more like the factory does it. Ya suppose Mr. Lee just pulled that "Factory Crimp" name out of the sky? Agree with them or not, the factory guys actually know a boatload more about what they're doing than most folks who claim to be able to do a better job at home! This turns into one of the joys of reloading: if, as they used to say, all roads lead to Rome, then a corollary is also true that many methods lead to satisfactory handloads.

Carry on!

Rick C

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

I agree , I crimp as a seperate step also. There are far less chances of messing up that way.
When seating and crimping at the same time, as the bullet is seated the very last little bit it is being restricted by the amount of crimp that already has been applied. Cases can buckle and hollow point bullets can be deformed. With crimping as an additional step there is less stress on the bullet or the case. With the LFC rifle die, there is zero stress on the case. Nothing but the very end of the case mouth is affected as the collet is being pushed by the shell holder,not the cartridge case or bullet.

 

[woodperson]

I did not know about how the FCD worked with a rifle. I do not think I have ever crimped a rifle round. Just neck sized and seated the bullet. Been a while since I have loaded a rifle round. And mostly shot them single shot. The rifle crimp die sounds like a good thing for hunting loads.

 

[Ka6otm]

I always crimp as a separate operation and the Lee FCD for handgun cartridges does this nicely. It's not something to cover up other things.

 

[gunzo]

For my revolver rounds I have always seated & crimped in one pass, I always will. I've had satisfactory results for over 40 years.

For semi auto pistol rounds I taper crimp(RCBS) in a separate operation. I didn't always do that & when I started I could see right off that it was the only way to go.

For blasting, plinking, training, etc. with the AR, I have chosen canalured bullets & looking forward to a near military type crimp that Rick mentions with the Lee. When ammo gets tossed around & used hard, you need it reliable. Clearing jams or using the bolt assist can cause a bullet to get pulled & dumping powder in the works or jammed back into the case & cause pressures to rise to a potentially dangerous level. I don't load for my M1A or AK, if I did, I'd order LFCD's for those too. Or, if I loaded for tube fed lever actions I can see the die being an asset.

Now... for my bolt actions. Especially my long range precision rifles. I can't see a crimp die even being in the same room when I load for those, that's just me. Having experimented with different neck tensions, bullet seating procedures, & seeing the results on the target & the chronograph, I'll pass on any crimping here.

Haven't ordered the die yet. Most, if not all of ya know the poceedure....you need only one item. While you're on the vendors web site or in the catalog, you just have to look around just to see if there's something else you might need. I mean, heck, while you're there & all. Plus if you order more that one item, the shipping cost is distributed & doesn't hit that one item so hard. So far, I've written down scope caps, bore solvent, a speed loader, maybe a holster, etc. etc. etc.........thankfully their knife selection isn't very good.......or is it, maybe I already have the ones they sell. Isn't that the way it's supposed to go? Doggone crimp die gonna cost me $200, gee thanks guys!!! :wink: :lol:

 

[Rook]

People that don't use a Lee Factory Crimp Die are the ones that's never had the chance to try one. If they did they would be using them on every caliber that they reload.

You can use bullets that don't have a cannelure because it will crimp the bullet hard enough that it'll make it's own cannelure. I use bullets for the .50AE that don't have a cannelure for my 500 Mag. rounds and they don't back out from the heavy recoil of the 500 Mag.

And one of the best features of the FCD is that it post sizes the cartridge. If there's any bulges in the casing it will resize it.

 

[mikld]

My comment about the FCD for handguns is from personal experience and research. I had an FCD for .44 Magnum and it sized down my perfectly sized cast bullets after crimping and resulted in barrel leading. It now resides in a landfill somewhere in So. Oregon. My ammo chambered nicely prior to the FCD, and my trial was mainly out of curiosity. I punched out the carbide ring, but the crimp was uneven and a bit raggedy. I went back to my Redding Profile Crimp Die...

For pistol reloading if there is any need to post crimp resize the cartridge, there is something wrong with a previous step, making the cartridge too big. Ninety-nine percent of the time the case has bulged from misadjusted dies, usually over crimping. The sizing ring swages the case down to spec. just covering up an OOPS! from a previous operation. I have reloaded 45 ACP since '90 and 9mm since '98 and have never needed to resize any of my reloaded ammo. I correctly adjusted my dies so every round passed the Plunk Test.

Personally, I seat and crimp separately, but many, many combine the steps successfully.

Not a Lee hater, just don't care for people telling new reloaders that the Lee FCD for pistols is the best thing since smokeless powder instead of telling them to learn to correctly adjust their dies...

 

[Rook]

Not a Lee hater, just don't care for people telling new reloaders that the Lee FCD for pistols is the best thing since smokeless powder instead of telling them to learn to correctly adjust their dies...

That's your opinion. The Lee Factory Crimp Die is the best thing since smokeless powder in my opinion. Yes sometimes people make mistakes in one step or the other but the FCD will correct that mistake by post sizing the cartridge. There's 7 people on this thread that like and use the FCD on everything they reload and you're the only one that had anything bad to say about it. So what does that say?? And I'll continue to give new reloaders my opinion when they ask. I've been doing it since 1962 and I know a thing or two 'cause I've see a thing or two.

 

[Ka6otm]

There may be some confusion here over exactly what a Lee FCD actually does, so at the risk of stating something everyone knows, here goes.

It can do two things:

1. Crimp your case
2. Size the entire assembly, bullet and/or case to Maximum SAAMI specs

If your dies are set correctly and your components are within SAAMI specs, all it will do is crimp, it won't even touch your bullet or case.

If either your bullet or case are larger than SAAMI maximum for the particular caliber, it will size them down to SAAMI maximum.

So, if everything is okay, it's a crimp die and nothing more. That's essentially what I use it for.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

There may be some confusion here over exactly what a Lee FCD actually does, so at the risk of stating something everyone knows, here goes.

It can do two things:

1. Crimp your case
2. Size the entire assembly, bullet and/or case to Maximum SAAMI specs

If your dies are set correctly and your components are within SAAMI specs, all it will do is crimp, it won't even touch your bullet or case.

If either your bullet or case are larger than SAAMI maximum for the particular caliber, it will size them down to SAAMI maximum.

So, if everything is okay, it's a crimp die and nothing more. That's essentially what I use it for.

+1 ..... exactly!
You can seat and crimp as a single step. Or you can seat and crimp as seperate steps. This can be done with the same die by readjusting the die between steps but that is a P.I.T.A. . The inexpensive LFCD does it for me and my seating die stays locked at its setting.
Seating and crimping at the same time in one die works fine as long as your brass all have the same overall length and wall thickness but when running mixed brass with various overall lengths you will end up with a lot of variation in loads, shot to shot. Most people don't care as long as it goes bang. Each to his own.

 

[bayou5252]

There may be some confusion here over exactly what a Lee FCD actually does, so at the risk of stating something everyone knows, here goes.

It can do two things:

1. Crimp your case
2. Size the entire assembly, bullet and/or case to Maximum SAAMI specs

If your dies are set correctly and your components are within SAAMI specs, all it will do is crimp, it won't even touch your bullet or case.

If either your bullet or case are larger than SAAMI maximum for the particular caliber, it will size them down to SAAMI maximum.

So, if everything is okay, it's a crimp die and nothing more. That's essentially what I use it for.

The above post is a very concise summary of the functions of a Lee FCD.

I'm stating the obvious to those of us who use FCDs, but just to clarify for those who are unfamiliar with them, the post-sizing function of the Lee FCDs, that is, the carbide ring, applies only to non-necked cases such as revolver/pistol cases.

For necked cases, like rifle cases, the Lee FCD uses collets to squeeze the rim of the case neck to apply whatever degree of crimp is desired. That's why you won't see a bulged neck using a Lee FCD.

They all work very well for me.

Bayou

 

[Colorado Expat]

To confuse matters even further...

I have an older Lee handgun FCD for .357 which does the collet crimp, but does not have the resizing ring in it like the current style does.

So, it appears that there may be 3 types of FCD - rifle, current pistol (with resizing insert) and older pistol (crimp only).

 

[Rick Courtright]

I have an older Lee handgun FCD for .357 which does the collet crimp, but does not have the resizing ring in it like the current style does.

Hi,

Interesting!

I've been using the handgun FCDs for a few years, but they weren't new on the market when I got 'em, so mine all have the ring. How old are the "pre-resizing" models?

Rick C

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Lee will make the collet style FCD for straight walled pistol or rifle calibers on special order. They work well but the segmented crimp gives tiny spots in the cases mouth for cracks/splits to get started. I have had a few .30-30 winchester cases split from those little marks left by a collet FCD. It's best not to over crimp when using that system.

 

[NikA]

Colorado Expat, Lee also makes a separate taper crimp die for several calibers, including 38/357: http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/taper-crimp-die/

Maybe this is what you've got? They are still available though I've never seen one used in person. I also don't know about how "taper" the taper crimp is, since Lee claims that all their dies since 1986 have the "ideal" crimp type for the cartridge.

The collet crimp dies are also a regular item for magnum revolver calibers: http://leeprecision.com/lee-collet-style-crimp-die/