lcr 357
- Thread starter sawlog
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Jim Puke
Hunter
I bought one for my Mother to carry, stoked with .38 ammo. I have shot fullhouse .357mag rounds in it and it was much more pleasant than I suspected it would be. If I were in the market for a carry .357...it would be the LCR.
trouble said:
+1 I feel the same way. It's more controllable than anything else in it's size on the market. There are guns out there that are just flat uncontrollable and it's tough to get 5 shots off with out pain. The LCR is not like that. It's a handful, yes but doable.
Viking Queen
Blackhawk
The LCR was the first gun I ever owned and the first one I ever shot. I have some hand "issues" and yet the LCR was and is very manageable. It is also very light weight. I don't regret this purchase at all.
Just my 2 cents . . . .
V Q
Just my 2 cents . . . .
V Q
My brother bought one and I shot it. Shot as well with this as with my SP-101 which is a good deal heavier. A great choice for a pocket gun, I think...though you couldn't have small pockets.
Bad side compared to my SP, flattened primers for hot handloads that shoot fine in my SP, no forward cylinder lock, controls like the cylinder latch felt nowhere near as crisp as on the sp, the shape is very tall, and of course the cheap plastic look/feel. But I wouldn't carry the sp in the pocket even though it's similar sized.
They make .357 loads for short barrels with low flash. While I find it very doubtful that most the powder burns anywhere's except inside the case, the velocities do seem to diminish with the short barrel, but the difference is still there.
Bad side compared to my SP, flattened primers for hot handloads that shoot fine in my SP, no forward cylinder lock, controls like the cylinder latch felt nowhere near as crisp as on the sp, the shape is very tall, and of course the cheap plastic look/feel. But I wouldn't carry the sp in the pocket even though it's similar sized.
They make .357 loads for short barrels with low flash. While I find it very doubtful that most the powder burns anywhere's except inside the case, the velocities do seem to diminish with the short barrel, but the difference is still there.
In a self defense CCW shoot ... You don't need to worry about 'revealing your location' (what ... Are you in an ambush situation ?) because you're both going to most likely be in close proximity to each other, and controllability is far more important than an Extra 200 FPS, monstrous muzzle blast, and almost certain over penetration. The danger to other innocent civilians due to the inability to control a full house 357 in a very light gun is a real concern. A 38+p or even a regular 38 will easily do the job for civilian self defense.
Any talk about revealing yourself via 'muzzle blast' or 'needing' an extra 200 FPS for extra 'knock down' power for civilian CCW is just typical mall ninja talk. I would still BUY an LCR in 357, but just so it could have the option of using full house loads in the correct situation, such as protection in the woods.
Cops can't even hit what they shoot at most of the time in pressure situations and they most likely have more training than most of us here. Let alone a basically untrained civilian with a few hundred range rounds under their belt, blazing away with a 2 inch barreled lightweight plastic revolver, with full house 357 rounds ... in a Burger King with people standing everywhere.
What could possibly go wrong in that scenario ? :D
REV
Any talk about revealing yourself via 'muzzle blast' or 'needing' an extra 200 FPS for extra 'knock down' power for civilian CCW is just typical mall ninja talk. I would still BUY an LCR in 357, but just so it could have the option of using full house loads in the correct situation, such as protection in the woods.
Cops can't even hit what they shoot at most of the time in pressure situations and they most likely have more training than most of us here. Let alone a basically untrained civilian with a few hundred range rounds under their belt, blazing away with a 2 inch barreled lightweight plastic revolver, with full house 357 rounds ... in a Burger King with people standing everywhere.
What could possibly go wrong in that scenario ? :D
REV
I think there's been some good posts about overpenetration and why it isn't an issue. I would add two comments to the like of:
a.) Out of a two inch barrel, the 1000 fps you get with a 125 gr bullet isn't going to penetrate any more than a 9mm or 40 round out of a service pistol.
b.) You can choose a bullet to get pretty much any penetration you want out of any caliper, within reason. My critical defenses get about 15 inches in ballistic gellatin from a service revolver which certainly isn't excessive. Indeed, you'll often get more penetration if you have a bullet that fails to expand at lower, not higher, velocities.
As far as hitting your target I would note:
a.) I doubt police are as highly trained as you suggest. I doubt their qualifications are any more detailed than the rifle/pistol quals I had in the Marine Corps which were a very basic rundown of bare marksmanship. Serious civilians are certainly better, no doubt.
b.) The reason people miss in combat is because they panic and lose their fundamentals not because the recoil of their firearm. Despite the hype I hear, I doubt anyone could show any statistical correlation whatsoever between recoil and missing in gunfights as long as the person could shoot this gun rapidly at the range. Again, people miss due to loss in fundamentals irregardless of firearm characteristics that they practiced with.
c.) I've shot the LCR and it is completely shootable with full house .357 loads as reasonable distances in experienced hands. If you miss with this gun after you've gained competency with it, it's because you missed, and you'll probably miss with anything because you panicked and relaxed your fundamentals. Again, shooting a 125 gr bullet 1,000 fps from an 18 oz gun is nothing extraordinary as some people are suggesting. It's certainly more manageable than shooting an LCP for sakes.
a.) Out of a two inch barrel, the 1000 fps you get with a 125 gr bullet isn't going to penetrate any more than a 9mm or 40 round out of a service pistol.
b.) You can choose a bullet to get pretty much any penetration you want out of any caliper, within reason. My critical defenses get about 15 inches in ballistic gellatin from a service revolver which certainly isn't excessive. Indeed, you'll often get more penetration if you have a bullet that fails to expand at lower, not higher, velocities.
As far as hitting your target I would note:
a.) I doubt police are as highly trained as you suggest. I doubt their qualifications are any more detailed than the rifle/pistol quals I had in the Marine Corps which were a very basic rundown of bare marksmanship. Serious civilians are certainly better, no doubt.
b.) The reason people miss in combat is because they panic and lose their fundamentals not because the recoil of their firearm. Despite the hype I hear, I doubt anyone could show any statistical correlation whatsoever between recoil and missing in gunfights as long as the person could shoot this gun rapidly at the range. Again, people miss due to loss in fundamentals irregardless of firearm characteristics that they practiced with.
c.) I've shot the LCR and it is completely shootable with full house .357 loads as reasonable distances in experienced hands. If you miss with this gun after you've gained competency with it, it's because you missed, and you'll probably miss with anything because you panicked and relaxed your fundamentals. Again, shooting a 125 gr bullet 1,000 fps from an 18 oz gun is nothing extraordinary as some people are suggesting. It's certainly more manageable than shooting an LCP for sakes.
Lamplighter said:
The extra feet per second was definitely arguing FOR the 357 as far as I can tell.
Agreed on the muzzle flash, although not for the reason of powder being burned 'outside the barrel'. Real full house 357's usually have tremendous muzzle flash, even with a 6 inch barrel. Most of Today's supposed 357 ammo wouldn't compare to what was being sold 20 years ago. I've shot modern 'supposed' 357 ammo that felt like 38's. Trust me ... You don't want to shoot a lot of full house 357 rounds with a top load of 2400 and a 158 grain bullet out of that gun, and you certainly wouldn't want to carry those rounds.
REV
I'm thinking I'll buy one of these tomorrow. We'll have concealed carry soon and I'll likely use either this or a LC9. No doubt .38 Special factory el-cheap-o loads will be good enough for me.
shaffe48 said:
I'm talking about your normal CCW holder, in other words, the OTHER 98% of people who aren't LEOs and don't have military training. Most CCW holders buy their first gun, a few boxes of ammo and start carrying.
Regarding training, LEOs sure as hell have a LOT more training than the run of the mill CCW holder, most have none, other than what they were forced to take to get their license. Some of the questions that these newbie CCW holders ask are truly frightening, and it's scary to think they're out there with guns on them. Think about the idiots you've seen do incredibly stupid things at the range, and then realize they're out there carrying.
REV
Yeah Rev, the 357 LRC is what he's got. First one I've seen for sale here in a long, long time. Can't bring myself to stick a MINT S&W 37 in a holster for daily carry.
You're right on the training; or lack thereof. Had a guy from MO try to sell me his LCP he'd carried for 2 or 3 years. He was asking almost full retail for it and justified the price telling me it's never even been fired. :shock:
Yep ~ he carried it 2 or 3 years ....... never shot it.
Note to self: avoid that person in public.
You're right on the training; or lack thereof. Had a guy from MO try to sell me his LCP he'd carried for 2 or 3 years. He was asking almost full retail for it and justified the price telling me it's never even been fired. :shock:
Yep ~ he carried it 2 or 3 years ....... never shot it.
Note to self: avoid that person in public.
Lamplighter said:
Exactly ... To suggest that most CCW holders are better trained and/or are more competent with guns than most police is unrealistic. I can't tell you how many freshly minted CCW holders I've seen make fools of themselves at the range or at other places, doing stuff like showing off their gun at bars or bragging about how many extra mags or guns or knives they carry for 'backup'.
Cops may not all be real competent with guns, but simply the fact that they have to practice and qualify a few times a year, and have had some formal training has most CCW holders beaten by a long shot.
REV
revhigh said:
I'll agree to that.
But I would shoot and have shot a 158gr bullet over lots of 2400 (1987 manual) out of this gun and wouldn't even blink. How do you think I got flattened primers from this little gun. In other words, you should probably stick to modern loadings. Any round that reports 500 ftlbs from a 4 inch barrel is full house for a .357 and I would shoot it out of the LCR without any anxiety whatsoever and so would many, many, many, many others.
shaffe48 said:
Primers are a poor way to tell if pressure is too high. Too many variables in primers/primer construction, and guns to be a reliable indication of chamber pressure.
I've had primers 'flatten' with low range and mid range loads. Depends on the batch/brand of primers, the looseness of the primer pockets, and the headspace of the particular gun. Any in spec load can flatten primers. If they're cratered or blown thru, that is a definite indication of over pressure.
I too use a much older Speer Reloading Manual, and I can absolutely say that virtually all the loads have been 'calmed down' from 20-30 years ago. Most likely for liability reasons. If you've only been shooting factory '357 Magnums' in the last 10-15 years or so ... You haven't really been shooting the REAL 357 magnum caliber. That's probably good though, because most people I see at the range think a 9mm has strong recoil, and can't hit the broad side of a barn ... From INSIDE the barn. They should try some of my 454 Casull reloads.
REV
Hey, I’m from Illinois too, and I have also been thinking LCR 357 will be the way to go for CCW. This could be a trend. Ruger may have to make up a special run for us. They could call it the LCR-LOL, Land of Lincoln, with a shiny copper Lincoln penny in the grips. :)
Seriously, it is a great urban fighting pistol. In the Chicago streets, an attack can come with extreme suddenness. It’s not like the NRA training video where the bad guy stands 20 feet away, draws his knife and gives you plenty of time to assume your perfect shooting position. You might be down in “Zimmerman Position”, flat on your back, getting the heck punched out of you. Your only life-saving shot may be off-balance, left-handed, and with a less-than-textbook grip. A small auto is more likely to malfunction in such situations. Finger slipping onto the controls, limp-wrist, slide obstruction - things you don’t get with a revolver. And, it keeps going even with a bad round.
As to Revs points that the average civilian can’t handle it, maybe, but it gets dangerously close to the anti-gun argument that there should be no CCW because the average person just can’t shoot well enough. I am sure we would rather error on the side of allowing people to defend themselves with the gun of their choice, LCR or otherwise.
Seriously, it is a great urban fighting pistol. In the Chicago streets, an attack can come with extreme suddenness. It’s not like the NRA training video where the bad guy stands 20 feet away, draws his knife and gives you plenty of time to assume your perfect shooting position. You might be down in “Zimmerman Position”, flat on your back, getting the heck punched out of you. Your only life-saving shot may be off-balance, left-handed, and with a less-than-textbook grip. A small auto is more likely to malfunction in such situations. Finger slipping onto the controls, limp-wrist, slide obstruction - things you don’t get with a revolver. And, it keeps going even with a bad round.
As to Revs points that the average civilian can’t handle it, maybe, but it gets dangerously close to the anti-gun argument that there should be no CCW because the average person just can’t shoot well enough. I am sure we would rather error on the side of allowing people to defend themselves with the gun of their choice, LCR or otherwise.
Imissedagain
Single-Sixer
My son bought the 357 LCR because it is all stainless except for the grip frame. There was talk and photos of some etching on the top strap. I knew when he came home from his first range session he had trouble with the 357/158gr loads. No big smile. I bought the gun from him so he could find something manageable. I loaded up some 38, 38+ and 357 in 125 and 158 weights. Some of the 158's were snappy. After 100 assorted my hand stung a bit the next morning. I like the gun as it carries in the front pocket of thick cargo shorts. Not a Security Six snubby but still nice.
