Lawyer Triggers

[mirglip]

Am I the only one who is really bothered by heavy triggers? Over the last 25 years dozens upon dozens of new firearms have been developed and marketed and I'm unfamiliar with most of them. There's little reason to pursue any interest in them because I know before doing any research that the trigger will be awful. If they all came from the factory with 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 pound triggers, I would probably buy many of them to try them out.
The anti-gun lawyers and activists were very clever in establishing a "court decision" that gun manufacturers are liable because a gun didn't have a miserable heavy trigger to prevent accidental discharges. We could call it the "Trigger Tax" because any gun we buy, we have to spend another hundred bucks or so to make the trigger usable, if that is even an option.
It has harmed the firearms industry buy discouraging sales to people like me who know better than to even bother trying them out.

 

[Johnnu2]

I don't think the industry (or any lawyer) cares about the 1/2 percent (of us) who even notice trigger pull weight. If they did, they would probably be out of business IMHO.
I just "work around" the problem.

J.

 

[mirglip]

Are we really that few? I don't think so, but that's why I started this thread to find out. I think that better than half of gun buyers wish their triggers were lighter.

 

[Johnnu2]

Maybe in Montana..... but I sincerely doubt it anywhere else in the world. Black Guns rule and I'm guessing their triggers may be abominable without real work-arounds.
J.

 

[mirglip]

AR15's are some of the easiest firearms to upgrade triggers on, requiring little skill, although the cost is usually upwards of $130. Any high production firearms that people routinely "build", customize and personalize will have a good supply of aftermarket trigger upgrades, it's the firearms with lower production numbers that require the most skill and talent to work around.

 

[ArizonaTea123]

Try the trigger pull on an old AMT DA only 45 ACP Compact. Even Chuck Norris would have trouble firing that pistol.

 

[eveled]

I have some carry guns with 10lb trigger pulls. It doesn’t bother me at all. Especially because they have no external safetys.

Gritty rough uneven pulls bother me, but not heavy.

 

[kmoore]

I replace or adjust a creepy, heavy trigger. ARs, 1022s even 77s are easy. Just about any popular gun has someone making a better trigger action. I recently replaced trigger springs in S&W J, K and N frames.

 

[mirglip]

I recently purchased a Kel-Tec P-17 and it had a 3 pound trigger right out of the box. The thing is so easy to shoot accurately. I put a laser on it and I knock down 9mm spent brass with it....hit almost every time. I liked it so much I bought another P-17. After break in both have just under 2 1/2 pound triggers.
If Kel-Tec can do this on a $199 firearm, why can't other companies do the same?

 

[s4s4u]

I bought a Turkish shotgun a few years ago, over/under double. The hammer sears had a "hook" on them that required the trigger to pull the hammer back slightly before releasing it. That trigger was 10 lbs if it was an ounce. I tore that gun apart and filed/stoned the hook out and it made the trigger a proper 2-3 lbs without any issues as far as safety/reliability. I wondered if that was deliberate or accidental.

Pull weight isn't as critical to me as is creep, or lack thereof. AR mil-spec triggers are notorious for creep, but much of that can be removed with a set-screw trigger job. Along with a spring "adjustment" they can be made rather decent without much investment.

My Ruger revolvers all have had a fair amount of creep out of the box, but I put up with it.

 

[Mobuck]

" Black Guns rule and I'm guessing their triggers may be abominable without real work-arounds"
"AR15's are some of the easiest firearms to upgrade triggers on, requiring little skill,"
Obviously, different 'opinions'.
This morning I was shuffling through some recently completed AR lowers. I'm accustomed to doing a few cock and release cycles on 'open' lowers as I handle them. Of the four I picked up, I judged that 3 of them were around 3-4# pull. These aren't 'mil-spec' right out of the package parts kits, but none have $100+ triggers either--indicating that some brands of parts are 'better' than others at very moderate increased cost.
I assemble (I detest the term 'build') around 20-25 AR 15's per year on a custom basis and have experienced the Good, Bad, and Ugly of the AR trigger selection.

 

[unspellable]

There's a new trigger in town. In addition to lawyer triggers we now have the California trigger. To be found on the re-intro Pythons ands Anacondas. In SA they lift the hammer slightly before release, resulting in an overly stiff trigger and sometimes a tiny bit of creep. Reputed to be so for the California drop test.

 

[larry8]

TRY A REDHAWK 44 TRIGGER THE SMOOTHES OF ALL.

 

[mirglip]

TRY A REDHAWK 44 TRIGGER THE SMOOTHES OF ALL.

I have had many Ruger revolvers, both single and double action and I was pretty satisfied with the triggers on all of them, but all of them were old 1985 and earlier manufacture. Can't say that about Ruger semi-autos. I have installed Volquartsen sears on five Ruger Mark II's and was satisfied with 4 of them after doing so.

 

[contender]

The average gun buyer (much of the general population,) doesn't know much or care about a trigger & it's pull weight. In fact that type of gun buyer is considered to be part of the 80%-85" of people who buy guns. It's the 15%-20% of more serious gun folks who UNDERSTAND a good trigger. And a good trigger has to be smooth, clean pulling and a crisp clean break. The poundage is secondary. I have smooth & clean super sweet triggers that are also heavier than many think they are because they are so smooth.
To make a gun with a very smooth & clean trigger takes work AND a good knowledge of how they work. Modern manufacturing is about production. But aftermarket & custom work is a side industry to satisfy those who understand a good trigger.
Besides,, that 80%-85% of average gun buyers would likely hurt themselves or others if a trigger was too light.

 

[mirglip]

I suppose body weight may have something to do with tolerance for heavy triggers. I'm slender and squeezing a heavy trigger pulls me off target. I suppose guys with meaty forearms and heavy paws don't mind 5 pound triggers as much as I do.

 

[DGW1949]

Actually, I find a 5 or 6 pound trigger to be just fine.....But....I've spent a lot of time competing in service rifle matches where the minimum allowable weight was 4-1/2 pounds, most had more than that that, and they all retained their 2-stage military triggers...By contrast, I've long noted that most folks these days spend most of their shooting time sitting at a bench with the gun propped on bags or a bipod, so maybe that type of shooting has different trigger requirements, dunno.....
Different strokes for different folks I guess. But regardless, if I were to limit myself only having guns with "2 1/2 to 3 1/2 pound" trigger pull, I guess that I wouldn't have a gun at all....In other words, my old match rifle, my Mini-14, Mini-30, both of my 1911A1's, my Browning Hi-Power, OM Blackhawk, both of my Mossberg 500's, my wife's Model-36 S&W, and her Remington 1100....they'd all have to go.
You guys must be kidding me, right? LOL.

DGW

 

[Kevin]

I love a good trigger. Especially a two stage trigger. I really love those.

I have a Kidd trigger in a 10/22. It’s the lightest they made at the time. Two stage, I think 3 ounces each or something like that.

 

[Neon Vernon]

As already stated most people don't know any better. I've had people try some of my older guns and they remark that it must've had a trigger job. Nope, they used to come that way out of the box.

If all you shoot is a relatively heavy trigger you get used to it. The problem comes in when I shoot a New Model with a stock trigger and then pick up an Old Model, then I start thinking about about how badly the newer gun needs a trigger job.

 

[Fox Mike]

I just bought a model 43 Glock and it is fine EXCEPT for the trigger. I feel like like I am grinding gravel when I squeeze it. Hopefully it will smooth out after some use.

 

[Jakeintexas]

I just bought a model 43 Glock and it is fine EXCEPT for the trigger. I feel like like I am grinding gravel when I squeeze it. Hopefully it will smooth out after some use.

Same thing for me. My solution was an overwatch precision trigger and bar with Glock minus connector.

 

[Hertervillian]

I love a good trigger. Especially a two stage trigger. I really love those.

I have a Kidd trigger in a 10/22. It’s the lightest they made at the time. Two stage, I think 3 ounces each or something like that.

I’ve come to appreciate a fine 2 stage trigger. My brain pretty much disregarding the first stage, leaving it to concentrate on the 1 1/2# remaining.

 

[Don G]

Tikka and Sako among others have nice triggers out of the box. Savage accutrigger and similar setups also aren’t bad for economy rifles

 

[blume357]

contender tagged it above... there are a number of factors that a good trigger have above the pull weight...
The older Ruger PC9s had one hell of a trigger pull when you first get ready to pull it you would swear the safety was still on but once you get used to it it is not too bad... when I first joined here we had a member who worked for Ruger and he said it was designed that way because they were planning to sell them to Law Enforcement Agencies... Seems only me and Bill thought it was a great idea... semi-auto pistol and carbine rifle that used the same ammo and magazines... in 9mm or 40cal.....

 

[Mike J]

I don't mind a trigger being a little on the heavy side so much as long as it is clean & smooth. I have even lived with a heavy, gritty trigger in the past.
Contender is right about smoothness. Several years ago I put together a PSA rifle kit. I didn't like the trigger & purchased their EPT trigger & swapped it out. I didn't change any springs but the difference in the trigger pull was huge.

 

[Paul B]

Some of my gun's triggers run from the sublime to the ridiculous.
First, a Taurus PT99, I can't even pull the trigger in double action and it's very heavy in single action. Two parts to the problem. One, the trigger pull in either DA or SA mode was already rather stiff. Two, and no fault of the gun is that damned cancer has robbed me of much of what strength I had. I weighed 200 pounds before and am about 148 fully dressed right now.
Two, another gun I picked up cheap at a gun show is a 3rd Generation Colt Single Action .45 that some idiot buggered up for fast draw. He tried to antique the gun and fouled that up but his worst was what he did to the trigger and hammer to make them work easyan slick. Oh did he succeed there. it is so slick and easy that the trigger pull is so light so as to be unmeasurable. Load the gun with a full 6 rounds and cock the hammer. Raise the gun until the muzzle it straight pointingoverhead. Don't be surprised if the gun goes off. The gun is flat out dangerous. I just used it as a teaching tool in Hunter Ed classes.
Rifles are another matter. Most have 2,5 to 3.5 pound triggers and all break nicely for the most part. he worst are probably the Garand and M-1 carbine. My favorite 30-06 has a a Datyon-Traister trigger and whoever installed it on that custom set it a 1.5 pounds. I've hunted at 14 above zero and that light pull has not been a problem.
PJ

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I had to switch out the trigger mechanism of the Bearman derringer you see in my avatar with one from a beat up but better (way better) quality Bond just to make it usable. Not a quirk either. I saw videos of others with the same gun / same problem. Almost a double finger squeeze from the factory. I don't know how it equates to poundage, but that heavy on that small a trigger is / was ridiculous.

 

[blume357]

I'm a pretty good believer in that other than the basic field strip one should not start anything like even a trigger swap out unless you have two of the same gun. Years ago I was up early one morning and decided to clean my carry pistol at that time a Sig P230 and disassembled the trigger mechanism .... took over 8 hours over the next three days and a lot of time on the internet to finally get that critter back together.... actually have had the same problem with the Sig P226.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

I'm a pretty good believer in that other than the basic field strip one should not start anything like even a trigger swap out unless you have two of the same gun. Years ago I was up early one morning and decided to clean my carry pistol at that time a Sig P230 and disassembled the trigger mechanism .... took over 8 hours over the next three days and a lot of time on the internet to finally get that critter back together.... actually have had the same problem with the Sig P226.

I pretty much agree, but the POS Bearman is basically a rip-off of the Bond, just lesser quality of materials among other things. Bearman are made of zinc alloy (Zamak) with steel lined barrels. Bonds are made of stainless steel. In this case it was pretty much just a change out. Design was the same. The Bond I had was a parts gun or I would not have done it. I gained a usable office gun- period. I wouldn't carry it anywhere.