Just installed Ghost Ultimate in SR9c

[RUGERFAN357]

Yesturday afternoon my Ghost Ultimate 3.5 lb trigger bar reset came in the mail. So last night I installed it with only a little trouble. What a differance it made. Much shorter, lighter, and smoother trigger pull. I wanted to make sure it still goes bang everytime since I had it apart, I took it to the range this afternoon. The trigger was different enough that I had to shoot it a few times to get used to it again. There where a few times it went off by surprise to me. I was pulling the trigger and it went before I thought it would. If I am paying atention that meant a bullseye. Put 100 rounds through her to make sure she is working OK since I carry this one. I admit I was just kinda blasting it since I was there to test dependability. I should always shoot for accuracy I know. But I don't alwways do. All went without a problem. I noticed a spring that was not in its groove correctly, but it still worked. It was too hot to work on at that point. I came home and used my Case Slimline Trapper blade to work the spring back in place. Then I racked the slide a few times and dry fired it a few times to see if it would stay in its groove. Thankfully it did. So it is good to go. I need to work on shooting it more to get more accurate with it. That will come in time. Today I shoot one ten round mag full very carefully trying too be as accurate and consistent as I could. Ended up with a 3" group at 10 yards. Not to bad, especially since I shoot from a seated position all the time, in my powerchair. I don't know if that is an advantage or not.

Bill

 

[Lateck]

Thanks for the information.
That is on my "maybe" list of things to do.

I have done the Galloway CCW trigger and that increased the pull
(at least by MY feel).
Good shooting by the way..
Have Fun, Shoot Straight and be Safe.

Lateck,

 

[axisofoil]

I've got the ultimate in my SR40. Huge difference over stock. And I've got the rocket in my sr9c. The rocket makes a huge difference over the ultimate in trigger feel (in the awesome direction).

Soon, the galloway striker indicator, heavy trigger bar spring and light safety plunger spring will be here... I imagine the trigger will only get better and better and better.

 

[Verndog]

.... There where a few times it went off by surprise to me. I was pulling the trigger and it went before I thought it would....

Exactly what I do NOT want in a SD pistol. Thank you for the reminder. :wink:

 

[revhigh]

last night I installed it with only a little trouble.

Much shorter, lighter, and smoother trigger pull.

I wanted to make sure it still goes bang everytime since I had it apart

There where a few times it went off by surprise to me.

I was pulling the trigger and it went before I thought it would.

If I am paying atention that meant a bullseye.

Put 100 rounds through her to make sure she is working OK since I carry this one.

And this ladies and gentlemen is why virtually ALL firearms experts recommend NEVER carrying a modified gun under any circumstances ... ESPECIALLY one that you messed with yourself.

Untrained amateur gunsmith + unauthorized parts + modified trigger = liability issues beyond comprehension. The only thing the above poster could do to make it worse is to use his own super duper 'hot reloads'.

Add the stress of armed combat and a snootful of adrenaline, and chances are somebody's gonna die accidentally, and somebody's gonna go to jail .... and somebody's gonna be bubba's wife in prison.


REV

 

[Verndog]

...The only thing the above poster could do to make it worse is to use his own super duper 'hot reloads'...REV

I beg to differ Rev. There are actually other things one can do to make matters even worse...Here is one I read just last week LOL :lol:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/121780999.html

 

[axisofoil]

My ultimate never causes "it went off before I thought it would" type of issues.

 

[RUGERFAN357]

The reason I said "There where a few times it went off by surprise to me. I was pulling the trigger and it went before I thought it would." is the trigger pull is shorter than it use to be. I think it would be normall for that to happen. To me it is like having a different gun that you need to spend time with to learn its pull. Which I did. The few that did surprise me where the first few I shot from it. After just a few it did not happen. I see this as being no different than trying out a new gun for the first time. I spent time with it to re learn the trigger and such to shoot it safely, that you should do when you get a new gun, or make changes to one. I am not an idiot that is out with a gun that I don't feel safe with being confident I know how it now functions and have sent hundreds of rounds down range just to get to this point. I understand what you all are saying. But I said I spent time with it to learn it.

Have you not had a surprise shot happen with a new gun? I know I have several times. Did I stop right then and carry it. Of course not. I spent time to get to know it. I am not a stupid idiot as you are trying to make me sound.

 

[Lateck]

Have you not had a surprise shot happen with a new gun? I know I have several times. Did I stop right then and carry it. Of course not. I spent time to get to know it. I am not a stupid idiot as you are trying to make me sound.

Relax RUGERFAN, there are some here that are "Just Better" then us mer mortal folks....

I understood what you meant and I believe most here did also. 8)


Lateck,

 

[revhigh]

Amateur gunsmithing and untested (by the gun manufacturer), aftermarket fire control group parts have no place in a carry gun.

REV

 

[jhearne]

Thanks for the information.
That is on my "maybe" list of things to do.

I have done the Galloway CCW trigger and that increased the pull
(at least by MY feel).
Good shooting by the way..
Have Fun, Shoot Straight and be Safe.

Lateck,

Galloway makes two kits:

Galloway's CCW Trigger INCREASES the pull weight.

Galloway's Competition Kit DECREASES the pull weight.

Josh

 

[RUGERFAN357]

last night I installed it with only a little trouble.

Much shorter, lighter, and smoother trigger pull.

I wanted to make sure it still goes bang everytime since I had it apart

There where a few times it went off by surprise to me.

I was pulling the trigger and it went before I thought it would.

If I am paying atention that meant a bullseye.

Put 100 rounds through her to make sure she is working OK since I carry this one.

And this ladies and gentlemen is why virtually ALL firearms experts recommend NEVER carrying a modified gun under any circumstances ... ESPECIALLY one that you messed with yourself.

Untrained amateur gunsmith + unauthorized parts + modified trigger = liability issues beyond comprehension. The only thing the above poster could do to make it worse is to use his own super duper 'hot reloads'.

Add the stress of armed combat and a snootful of adrenaline, and chances are somebody's gonna die accidentally, and somebody's gonna go to jail .... and somebody's gonna be bubba's wife in prison.


REV

OK REV. You got me thinking. What you are saying makes sense. Oh by the way. I don't reload.

Bill

 

[revhigh]

Hi Bill !

I'm kinda old school when it comes to carry guns, and I generally follow and recommend what industry and law enforcement specialists and experts recommend. I'm talking about guys like Massad Ayoob.

Most recommend that absolutely no non-factory modifications be made to a gun, even by a licensed gunsmith. When I say non-factory, I mean that something like the Glock factory trigger kits would be acceptable, but nothing aftermarket, since there is no way to predict it's overall effect on the functionality of the gun. Sights and reasonable grips and things like that are fine.

God forbid, if you are involved in a questionable shooting (or ANY shooting for that matter) and your gun is confiscated (which it most likely WILL BE) for analysis, if they find trigger mods, and fire control mods, and things that indicate amateur gunsmithing, that will just be legal ammunition for the perp's lawyer, or his estate's lawyer. They will try to portray you as an irresponsible gun nut who wasn't satisfied with the gun as it came from the manufacturer, that you had to make it even MORE deadly. If by chance the shooting was accidental, for example you were holding someone at gunpoint and it went off, and THEN they find something .... what do you think the result of that will be ?

This is the exact reason that DA/SA and DA guns like the Glocks came about. It was found that almost ANYBODY has a muscular reaction to any unanticipated move when holding someone at gunpoint. Guns like SA 1911's and Revolvers in SA mode, were found to easily go off if there was even a slight muscle twitch in an adrenaline fuelled moment. Cops who are trained this way were shooting people by accident and the liability suits were skyrocketing. Now virtually ALL police departments carry DA/SA guns because of this liability.

Let's say you are involved in a shooting where the defense is claiming accidental unwarranted shooting. If you are carrying a factory stock gun, you can get Ruger involved, with all their experts and technical testimony. Let's say you PAID a gunsmith to work on the gun. You can get HIM involved, and licensed gunsmiths carry insurance and have good lawyers available. Now let's say that YOU did the work, YOU put in a lighter trigger that was NOT authorized by Ruger. Ruger will say ... 'Hey ... the gun was safe when it left the factory ... the user modified it with a non-factory untested part ... we don't allow or recommend that so it's THE USER'S problem'.

They'll get you on the stand and cross-examine you. Where is your gunsmithing degree from ? When did you graduate ? What gunsmith experience do you have ? Why did you feel that the gun as it came from Ruger wasn't deadly enough ? ETC ETC blah blah blah. So Mr Smith, you have NO gunsmithing degree, you have NO gunsmithing experience, and yet you modified your gun to have a LIGHTER trigger BY YOURSELF, with a part that was NOT authorized by the gun's manufacturer, and my client was shot or killed because of your irresponsibility. YOU sir, are going to jail, because you shot/killed an innocent man with your home-gunsmithed UNSAFE gun.

We've had this discussion many times before here, so I'm not going to respond to any opposing views ... that's already been done. This in a nutshell is what you'll read in Massad Ayoob's absolutely excellent book ... In The Gravest Extreme. I highly recommend reading that book to read about this issue as well as other issues of liability when carrying a weapon.

After reading that book, there are MANY people who decide not to carry a gun at all. The minute you shoot someone the entire legal system switches from protecting you to convicting you .... many times even if it's a righteous shoot.

It's great reading, and should be required for anyone contemplating carrying a gun for self defense.

Mod the hell out of your range guns, but buy a gun for carry that you can live with and shoot well as it came from the factory. That will give you the best possible legal defense if you ever have to use it for real. It only makes sense. There will now be a bunch of non-qualified amateur legal eagles come on here and say that I'm full of it, and to show them cases where that has happened, etc, etc. All I can say is ... read the book or pay the money and talk to a lawyer well versed in firearms cases .... see what they have to say .....

Sorry about the lengthy reply.


REV

 

[Al James]

Rev,

I must have been typing my other post when you were writing your last one. I would like to get a copy of that Ayoob book. I have only read small articles of his in mags and online. Thanks for the info! I didnt want to hijack Rugerfans post so I started another one on the subject. Didnt intend it to be an argument against your post above. Good stuff.

 

[revhigh]

Hi Al,

Yeah I saw your post and commented.

I'll be honest with you ... after I read that book .... I very seriously debated carrying a gun at all .... the consequences of shooting somebody, even in a righteous shoot are just devastating ... financially, legally, and morally as well.

It's a VERY scary book to read if you're contemplating CCW. But it should be read anyway.

REV

 

[Al James]

Hi Al,

Yeah I saw your post and commented.

I'll be honest with you ... after I read that book .... I very seriously debated carrying a gun at all .... the consequences of shooting somebody, even in a righteous shoot are just devastating ... financially, legally, and morally as well.

It's a VERY scary book to read if you're contemplating CCW. But it should be read anyway.

REV

What a shame that is

You have the right to protect yourself which comes with the understanding that you will go broke trying to defend that right. No wonder the country is where it is.

 

[revhigh]

Yup ... agreed .... from what I remember, in Ayoob's book, he said it typically costs $100,000 for defending a shoot, even if you're in the right. I could be wrong on the number, but I think that's close. Of course if you're in your home, and the attacker is armed ... that's a different story.

Outside your home though .... you don't want it to happen.

REV

 

[RUGERFAN357]

Well REV, you convinved me better safe than sorry. My SR9c has a very good trigger without the Ghost, so I am not lossing much by putting the origanal back in. I also put the mag safety back in. Some say that it is ok to remove it. I figure, why take the chance. So I am back to stock. Thanks for caring enough to share your knowledge.

Bill

 

[Big Stu]

Well REV, you convinved me better safe than sorry. My SR9c has a very good trigger without the Ghost, so I am not lossing much by putting the origanal back in. I also put the mag safety back in. Some say that it is ok to remove it. I figure, why take the chance. So I am back to stock. Thanks for caring enough to share your knowledge.

Bill

If the gun is modified or not, the real question comes down to: Was it a good shoot or not? It will still cost a fortune to defend yourself either way. I really doubt the criminal justice system in our country will to a complete detail strip anyway. The question is most likely to come up in a civil suit. IMHO.

 

[revhigh]

Well REV, you convinved me better safe than sorry. My SR9c has a very good trigger without the Ghost, so I am not lossing much by putting the origanal back in. I also put the mag safety back in. Some say that it is ok to remove it. I figure, why take the chance. So I am back to stock. Thanks for caring enough to share your knowledge.

Bill

Hi Bill,

Glad to put in my 2 cents, but PLEASE read Mas Ayoob's book anyway. It's really good reading, and after you read it, you'll know 100 times more about the courts and legal justice system than the people who comment in these threads that all that matters is the quality of the shoot. As Mas says NUMEROUS times in his book, 'The minute you fire your weapon at someone the entire legal system turns from protecting you to convicting you'.

It doesn't matter whether you win or lose the criminal case ... you're still out $100,000+ in legal fees and courtroom costs. And there WILL be a civil suit, whether or NOT you won the criminal case, according to Mas.

As I said .... I have no doubt that there are hundreds of people who have read the Ayoob book, and then decided that it just wasn't worth the risk of carrying at all.

REV

 

[Verndog]

As I said .... I have no doubt that there are hundreds of people who have read the Ayoob book, and then decided that it just wasn't worth the risk of carrying at all.
REV

I read this per Revs. recommendation just prior to getting my CCW. I learned alot from it, but knew before I read it that I would never pull my weapon unless myself or family member is in clear grave danger. Then and only then it's draw, click, warn if there is time and pull. That is life or death, and that is why I carry. I would not let any book or persons opinion keep me from protecting my life or a family members.

The gray area comes into play when you witness a crime. There is a whole bunch of unimaginable scenarios you may not think of where the person is a good guy and you react and shoot. If you are the type of person that would not be 100% certain before reacting...leave it at home.

 

[Verndog]

... Was it a good shoot or not? It will still cost a fortune to defend yourself either way...

Not true.

There are plenty of clear cut self defense shootings that there are no charges filed, and no lawsuits because it's open and closed self defense.

If you are concerned with potential costs for $85.00 per year you can have insurance covering court costs here. Massad Ayoob is on the board of directors.
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/defense-fund :wink:

 

[98_1LE]

It doesn't matter whether you win or lose the criminal case ... you're still out $100,000+ in legal fees and courtroom costs.

I have legal insurance that covers me in the event of a shooting. The contract makes no mention of modified guns.

It doesn't matter whether you win or lose the criminal case ... you're still out $100,000+ in legal fees and courtroom costs..

See this is where you are just flat out wrong. I will go ahead and explain the process in Texas.


After the shooting, the shooter can either talk to the cops, or say nothing. Talking may prevent an arrest, however my attorney said to say nothing, take the arrest, and call him to bail me out.

A grand jury will be convened to determine if a reasonable person would have feared for their life or safety or the safety of another person. That is all that is up for debate. If it is determined that a reasonable person would have reason to fear for the safety of someone, then they no bill the shooting.

At that point the castle doctrine kicks in as long as it was legal for the shooter to possess the firearm where they were when the shooting took place. It does not have to be at their home; anywhere in state that is legal to carry is fine. The castle doctrine prevents any action in civil court if the shooting was no billed.


So now I explained my understanding; please show me where exactly defending the gun fits into this model? Or kindly correct my mistakes.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

Believe it or not, Illinois has a rather loose Castle Law, we have no retreat requirement in it at all. In Texas, outside of the home at least, you must prove that you had no choice to retreat, even though the Texas law is a "line in the sand" version. If it is found that Castle Doctrine doesn't apply in a particular case, that person is open to full prosecution and any and all civil lawsuits.

This is a shooting that happened in Texas in Austin, the shooter declared Castle Defense, went to jail charged with aggravated assualt with a deadly weapon, don't know if this went to trial yet.

They charged him because he could have retreated from the incident:

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/man-charged-in-shooting-during-mopac-road-rage-844356.html

 

[revhigh]

This is a shooting that happened in Texas in Austin, the shooter declared Castle Defense, went to jail charged with aggravated assualt with a deadly weapon, don't know if this went to trial yet.

What's that old saying ?? You can indict a ham sandwich ???? Castle doctrine or not, a prosecutor can do whatever the hell he wants to, and you have to defend yourself at your own expense. Evidently some people think they can just say .... Castle Doctrine !!! Castle Doctrine !!! and everybody just goes away. LOL. That's not exactly the way it works in real life ....


REV

 

[98_1LE]

Believe it or not, Illinois has a rather loose Castle Law, we have no retreat requirement in it at all. In Texas, outside of the home at least, you must prove that you had no choice to retreat, even though the Texas law is a "line in the sand" version. If it is found that Castle Doctrine doesn't apply in a particular case, that person is open to full prosecution and any and all civil lawsuits.

This is a shooting that happened in Texas in Austin, the shooter declared Castle Defense, went to jail charged with aggravated assualt with a deadly weapon, don't know if this went to trial yet.

They charged him because he could have retreated from the incident:

http://www.statesman.com/news/local/man-charged-in-shooting-during-mopac-road-rage-844356.html

How did you deduce a requirement to retreat from that?

Charged != convicted.

 

[98_1LE]

This is a shooting that happened in Texas in Austin, the shooter declared Castle Defense, went to jail charged with aggravated assualt with a deadly weapon, don't know if this went to trial yet.

What's that old saying ?? You can indict a ham sandwich ???? Castle doctrine or not, a prosecutor can do whatever the hell he wants to, and you have to defend yourself at your own expense. Evidently some people think they can just say .... Castle Doctrine !!! Castle Doctrine !!! and everybody just goes away. LOL. That's not exactly the way it works in real life ....


REV

I explained exactly how it works above. Odds are the grand jury will no bill this, and it will end their. A person trying to aggressively cause a vehicle accident is a direct threat. Maybe not to life, which is what the GJ will have to decide.

 

[daddyflea]

This is a shooting that happened in Texas in Austin, the shooter declared Castle Defense, went to jail charged with aggravated assualt with a deadly weapon, don't know if this went to trial yet.

What's that old saying ?? You can indict a ham sandwich ???? Castle doctrine or not, a prosecutor can do whatever the hell he wants to, and you have to defend yourself at your own expense. Evidently some people think they can just say .... Castle Doctrine !!! Castle Doctrine !!! and everybody just goes away. LOL. That's not exactly the way it works in real life ....


REV

I explained exactly how it works above. Odds are the grand jury will no bill this, and it will end their. A person trying to aggressively cause a vehicle accident is a direct threat. Maybe not to life, which is what the GJ will have to decide.

REV and the book are almost right. I am aligning myself more and more with REV

Here is where REV and everybody else is missing the point. Castle Doctrine and new more lenient laws will cover you more so than in the past. Prosecutors are not who you need to worry about. There is no money to be made by Prosecutors or anybody else if you go to jail. No one wants to see you in jail including the Victims family.

Here is the procedure.

After a Shooting your gun is seized as evidence so carry no high dollar weapons. The weapon will be test fired and the ejection of the round as well as everything else will be documented. A special trigger would be found.

After you are No Billed your Criminal Trial is over.

Now the Attorneys have two years to file a Civil suit against you. (remember OJ) The Criminal Court has already gathered evidence. They now Subpoena that evidence and start looking for anything unusual.

They can require you to answer questions as they Depose you. Your Attorney can only challenge the use of your answers in the Civil Court.

From there the burden of proof is not beyond a Reasonable doubt it is instead a "Preponderance of the Evidence." In our words who has the most evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe their version of the case is the correct one.

The Lawyers for the Victim are usually free taking 33% of the settlement. If you have home insurance usually your Home insurance will sometimes help with a Lawyer. Most Police such as I have CLEAT or TMPA that may or may not help. This is just with your Lawyers fees. The settlement is up to you.

Sometimes the shooting is even perfectly understandable and things like.

Gentlemen of the Jury my Client was needlessly killed and or maimed by a person that prepared for this event by purposely being alone at night on a Street he knew was inhabited by poor desperate persons who only did what they needed to get food for their families. The Shooter spent hundreds of dollars installing special target triggers on the weapon used and often boasted on the Internet that he could shoot 1" groups at twice the range my Client was shot. The NRA often gives statistics that say the mere display of a firearm stops most encounters but in this case my Client was not warned, no warning shot was fired, and one intentional well aimed shot killed my client, when this could have been easily avoided by the Shooter. To add to this tragedy the Shooter used bullets banned in other states (Hollow Points) for use even by the Police. I am asking to send a message to anyone using a firearm to take just a little time (Pad my pocket with that 33%) and explore all the options before purposely killing another person.

That my friends is how it goes and you lose the Civil suit after being no billed at Grand Jury.