Inferior firearms vs function and reliability

[DGW1949]

Thank the labor unions for that.

In a world of “them vs. us” the labor union members have become “them” to many of us.

True that.....The worse run of Colts ever was right after the United Auto Workers logo began being printed on the Colt boxes back in the 70's. I'm talking canted sights, barrels off-centered in the slides, D-frame revolvers that wouldn't reliably fire in DA mode....you name it...And who can forget the re-introduction of their old black-powder revolvers, which as it turned out, were actually being assembled from Uberti parts with finishes applied by Iver Johnson....LOL, what a joke...Oh well, so much for the so-called "inferior" firearms myth, eh?

DGW

 

[Hvymax]

That right there is the main reason.
If they were made in America they would be up there with the rest of them .
I have never heard of a company going overseas because something can be made better. They go overseas because it is cheaper.

Pretty sure they started out because they were making guns for local use and eventually went commercial. The originals were all hand fitted and finished made from left over WWII scrap metal. They've come a long way.

 

[GasGuzzler]

I have the tiny billboard version ... and I was able to mostly erase it. It's not engraved or stamped. Picked it up locally with 52 rounds down the pipe and the checkered Colt grips already installed. I removed the ambi safety and full length guide rod it came with in favor of GI parts. I kept the skeletonized hammer and trigger. Great shooter!

 

[BearBiologist]

I found a 1/2 price sale at Sportsman's for the XDM-Elite by Springfield Armory. Bought on the spur of the moment. It came with two mags but, evidently, someone had put the wrong ones in the box! They would NOT seat. I e-mailed SA customer service. They agreed to send me two replacements. Arrived yesterday and everything is great! GREAT customer service and a great feeling gun! Get my RIA and I'll be hitting the range!!

Just back from vacation. Went in to do my paperwork and start the clock (usually 7-10 days). Got a phone call I had been cleared in about an hour and a half!!

 

[JackBull]

Ruger = American Made ’nuff said

 

[Fox Mike]

That right there is the main reason.
If they were made in America they would be up there with the rest of them .
I have never heard of a company going overseas because something can be made better. They go overseas because it is cheaper.

My Charles Daly was made in the Philippines and is as good as any other 1911 I have ever shot. As I posted earlier, untold number of rounds through it, over many years, without one problem.

 

[dhains1963]

That right there is the main reason.
If they were made in America they would be up there with the rest of them .
I have never heard of a company going overseas because something can be made better. They go overseas because it is cheaper.

Labor cost is the largest controllable expense for business. When the average worker is getting $5.00 per hour in Turkey and $25.00 per hour in the U.S. like kind goods can be made for much less.

 

[dhains1963]

Labor cost is the largest controllable expense for business. When the average worker is getting $5.00 per hour in Turkey and $25.00 per hour in the U.S. like kind goods can be made for much less.

10 man hours would save $200.

 

[Busterswoodshop]

My Charles Daly was made in the Philippines and is as good as any other 1911 I have ever shot. As I posted earlier, untold number of rounds through it, over many years, without one problem.

I am glad you are happy with it , but you will never convince me they make them in the Philippines because they make them better.
They make them in the Philippines , because it is cheaper than making them here.

 

[dhains1963]

I am glad you are happy with it , but you will never convince me they make them in the Philippines because they make them better.
They make them in the Philippines , because it is cheaper than making them here.

and??? Cheaper labor, less expensive. Sounds like a horrible combo to me ???

 

[Busterswoodshop]

and??? Cheaper labor, less expensive. Sounds like a horrible combo to me ?

Spend your money where you want.
I personally , would rather keep my money in America whenever possible.

 

[dhains1963]

Spend your money where you want.
I personally , would rather keep my money in America whenever possible.

I buy Ruger products exclusively (handguns). I do buy Turkish shotguns. The point was that just because a gun is not made in America doesn't mean it sucks (Glock, Beretta. H&k along with many other manufacturers would disagree).

 

[Busterswoodshop]

I buy Ruger products exclusively (handguns). I do buy Turkish shotguns. The point was that just because a gun is not made in America doesn't mean it sucks (Glock, Beretta. H&k along with many other manufacturers would disagree).

I never said anything sucks.
All I said was that they were made in other countries because it was cheaper.

I am not sure why there is a problem understanding that.

 

[el caminero]

My Charles Daly was made in the Philippines and is as good as any other 1911 I have ever shot. As I posted earlier, untold number of rounds through it, over many years, without one problem.

The fellow making them in the phillippines, has been making them a long time, and charles daly is just one of the customisers who use them as the base chassis. Rumour from years ago, his steel is superior due to being old battleship steel, and he got so good that the maschining is consistent enough to get Rock Island stamped on it. There was a story attatched to a particular bloc of pistols, years ago, that they were from a sunken ( scuttled) german warship in south america.

 

[BearBiologist]

Like my RIA 1911 Elite. Waiting for the mail to change the rear sight (I prefer a white outline over the solid black target sight.

 

[dhains1963]

That's a nice gun at a very good price. How much did you pay for one, if I may ask?

 

[dhains1963]

I see ultras but know elite on their website

 

[dhains1963]

That's no, f$$$$n auto correct

 

[BearBiologist]

1. Mis-spoke. It's the Ultra. My Springfield Armory is the Elite.
2. Sportsman's had a sale. I think is was under $400 (?)=I wanna say $399 (?). Got the Springfield Armory at about the same time. For some reason, Sportsman's Warehouse had them right after each other for about 1/2 off. I didn't open an account, so I don't remember.
3. Wife did taxes and told me to pick something out and I've been debating for 3 days about getting a RIA BBR but decided against it because I already have 3 45's, one 45 Colt, 2 10mm, a 357 and 2 357 Sigs, so I'm pretty well covered! Decided to pay down a credit card instead!

 

[dhains1963]

1. Mis-spoke. It's the Ultra. My Springfield Armory is the Elite.
2. Sportsman's had a sale. I think is was under $400 (?)=I wanna say $399 (?). Got the Springfield Armory at about the same time. For some reason, Sportsman's Warehouse had them right after each other for about 1/2 off. I didn't open an account, so I don't remember.
3. Wife did taxes and told me to pick something out and I've been debating for 3 days about getting a RIA BBR but decided against it because I already have 3 45's, one 45 Colt, 2 10mm, a 357 and 2 357 Sigs, so I'm pretty well covered! Decided to pay down a credit card instead!

Off topic question for you. What do you think of the glock 43x?

 

[larry8]

Personally I favor Ruger, but I've had SA, Taurus, Rossi and some German guns in the past. They were all good or as good as my Ruger's.

 

[the_leper_colony]

I was reminded again last week, that sometimes a firearm gets blamed for an ammunition issue. I had purchased a factory .22 LR conversion kit for one of my 9mm handguns, and took it to the range for the first time. I've read oin the past that many conversion kits function best with ammunition like CCI Mini-Mags, so I brought some of that to the range, along with 10-12 other types of .22 ammunition.

Surprised the heck out of me, but the Mini-Mags not only didn't group well, but there were a lot of 'light strikes' that required a second pull of the trigger to fire. Ditto for Winchester Super-X, which a friend says works best in his 1911 conversion kit. Lots of similar problems with other types of ammo, as well. Finally, down in the bottom of the box, I found some Federal 45 gr "Suppressor" ammo I had bought to try in a fast-twist carbine barrel. Voila! Nice tight groups and reliable cycling. If I hadn't had the Federal 45 gr along, I might have jumped to the conclusion that the firearm was "inferior".

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

 

[dhains1963]

I was reminded again last week, that sometimes a firearm gets blamed for an ammunition issue. I had purchased a factory .22 LR conversion kit for one of my 9mm handguns, and took it to the range for the first time. I've read oin the past that many conversion kits function best with ammunition like CCI Mini-Mags, so I brought some of that to the range, along with 10-12 other types of .22 ammunition.

Surprised the heck out of me, but the Mini-Mags not only didn't group well, but there were a lot of 'light strikes' that required a second pull of the trigger to fire. Ditto for Winchester Super-X, which a friend says works best in his 1911 conversion kit. Lots of similar problems with other types of ammo, as well. Finally, down in the bottom of the box, I found some Federal 45 gr "Suppressor" ammo I had bought to try in a fast-twist carbine barrel. Voila! Nice tight groups and reliable cycling. If I hadn't had the Federal 45 gr along, I might have jumped to the conclusion that the firearm was "inferior".

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

It's amazing that all guns and most ammo are made to their particular calibers specs, yet they don't always work. Things that make you go hum!

 

[BearBiologist]

Off topic question for you. What do you think of the glock 43x?

Don't have a 43x. We have 3 G43s in the household. Wife has one (With Crimson Trace laser) in her nightstand (I have a G22 changed over to 357 Sig with a laser in mine). She also has one in her purse (We both have CCWs for multiple states). I have one in the desk drawer for quick runs to the market. My wife decided on a G17 for OWB carry in the woods.

I don't get the accuracy from the G43 that I do from my modified G27 (357 Sig), We both had issues (as did one of her female friends with her G43) with FTF jams and stove piping. I asked Massoud about it and he told me that the lighter & faster (115 & 124 gr) +P loads cycled the lighter action of the G43 "too fast". He recommended a heavier bullet. We switched to 147gr, and the problem stopped.

I carry my G27 for EDC and like it a lot. Small enough to pocket carry with cargo pants and, I think, a better cartridge than the 40 S & W (YMMV). I find 1911 platforms just a tad big and heavy. My Commanders and Officers Enhanced were more often left at home in favor of a j-frame S & W or even a Colt .25 (also in my desk drawer)

 

[BearBiologist]

I was reminded again last week, that sometimes a firearm gets blamed for an ammunition issue. I had purchased a factory .22 LR conversion kit for one of my 9mm handguns, and took it to the range for the first time. I've read oin the past that many conversion kits function best with ammunition like CCI Mini-Mags, so I brought some of that to the range, along with 10-12 other types of .22 ammunition.

Surprised the heck out of me, but the Mini-Mags not only didn't group well, but there were a lot of 'light strikes' that required a second pull of the trigger to fire. Ditto for Winchester Super-X, which a friend says works best in his 1911 conversion kit. Lots of similar problems with other types of ammo, as well. Finally, down in the bottom of the box, I found some Federal 45 gr "Suppressor" ammo I had bought to try in a fast-twist carbine barrel. Voila! Nice tight groups and reliable cycling. If I hadn't had the Federal 45 gr along, I might have jumped to the conclusion that the firearm was "inferior".

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

Twenty-twos are notorious for being finicky.

 

[the_leper_colony]

Twenty-twos are notorious for being finicky.

About 30 years ago, a friend bought a used Ruger No. 1 in .270 Winchester. Sighting it in, he discovered that it would shoot Remington factory ammo (forget bullet type & weight) into these tiny groups he could cover with a nickel! How sweet is that?!

After owning it for a while, he started talking about having the stock shortened for a better fit, and having the furniture refinished at the same time. Having read that the No. 1 could be sensitive to forend fit or tension (or something of that nature), I advised him to PLEASE not mess with it - I mean, just look at those groups, with off-the-shelf ammo! Of course, he ignored me (what are friends for). And for whatever reason, he could never get it to shoot worth a dang after refinishing the furniture.

It's not just rimfires that can be finicky!

 

[BearBiologist]

I once had a #1 varmint in 25-06 with a 10x Unertl scope. Made up a load that you could cover 10 shots (after 5 fouling shots) with a dime using 120 gr Partitions (prepping for a pronghorn hunt). Rolled a coyote at 500 yards. Didn't write down the load!!!

 

[Fox Mike]

I was reminded again last week, that sometimes a firearm gets blamed for an ammunition issue. I had purchased a factory .22 LR conversion kit for one of my 9mm handguns, and took it to the range for the first time. I've read oin the past that many conversion kits function best with ammunition like CCI Mini-Mags, so I brought some of that to the range, along with 10-12 other types of .22 ammunition.

Surprised the heck out of me, but the Mini-Mags not only didn't group well, but there were a lot of 'light strikes' that required a second pull of the trigger to fire. Ditto for Winchester Super-X, which a friend says works best in his 1911 conversion kit. Lots of similar problems with other types of ammo, as well. Finally, down in the bottom of the box, I found some Federal 45 gr "Suppressor" ammo I had bought to try in a fast-twist carbine barrel. Voila! Nice tight groups and reliable cycling. If I hadn't had the Federal 45 gr along, I might have jumped to the conclusion that the firearm was "inferior".

As always IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

Dos this come with a separate barrel as well, since the 9mm is about 335 and the .22 is 223?