How to aim Ruger American

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

So question, with the Ruger American 45 full size they come with 3 dot Novak sights but no one seems to agree whether the front dot should be just under the intended target (6 o'clock) or if the front dot should be covering the intended target.

So which is it? This freaking information is IMPOSSIBLE to find. I'm a new shooter and have too many variables to just go out and test. I'm just too wobbly and my trigger pull is untrained. I don't want to spend $500 in ammo just to figure this out. It should be spelled out plainly!

So do I cover the target with the front dot or aim the front dot 6 o'clock just slightly under the intended target? Thanks guys

I added a poll, please vote if you have experienced with certainty where to put that front dot thanks!

 

[GunnyGene]

So question, with the Ruger American 45 full size they come with 3 dot Novak sights but no one seems to agree whether the front dot should be just under the intended target (6 o'clock) or if the front dot should be covering the intended target.

So which is it? This freaking information is IMPOSSIBLE to find. I'm a new shooter and have too many variables to just go out and test. I'm just too wobbly and my trigger pull is untrained. I don't want to spend $500 in ammo just to figure this out. It should be spelled out plainly!

So do I cover the target with the front dot or aim the front dot 6 o'clock just slightly under the intended target? Thanks guys

I think the best way to figure this out for yourself is to get on a bench with a rest. Most anything can be used for the rest - a couple old socks filled with sand for example or a piece of wood with a V cut in it to support the front of frame. The rest should be tall enough so the butt doesn't contact the bench when fired. Shouldn't take more than one magazine full at about 7 yds.

Something like this one is quick and easy to make:

 

[DGW1949]

I prefer that my guns shoot where they look.
In other words, a 6-o'clock hold only works on a target of a known size, but center is always center regardless of target size.

Think about that and you'll get what I'm saying.

DGW

 

[s4s4u]

I prefer that my guns shoot where they look.
In other words, a 6-o'clock hold only works on a target of a known size, but center is always center regardless of target size.

Think about that and you'll get what I'm saying.

DGW

Agree 100%

As far as wobble, we all have it. Just keep the sights on the target as you press the trigger and your groups will tighten with experience. If you stab the trigger when you see the sights on target you will pull low and left (if right handed).

Don't press the trigger when the sights are on target, press the trigger while the sights are on target.

 

[stevefishes]

Mine shoots center. If I hold at six o'clock I shoot under......

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

Mine shoots center. If I hold at six o'clock I shoot under......

Ok. So I'm hearing you guys pretty well. So I have to practice grip, stance, breathing, controlling wobble, proper dot/target/eye focus, trigger pull and on top of all those variables... where the hell to put that dot to even begin with haha sounds like I should cover the intended target with the dot based on what some of you have said. Can anyone second this? So no 6 o'clock. If anyone else blots out the intended bullseye with the front sight please second because when I go into practice shooting I'm going to go in as if that were law for this gun and if I miss, it's my fault, not the dot's fault.

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

Hi guys, so I posted a POLL to help me gather the general consensus of where to put that front dot. Please vote

 

[DGW1949]

Hi guys, so I posted a POLL to help me gather the general consensus of where to put that front dot. Please vote

I couldn't vote because I don't use the dot to aim with. I use the top edge of the sight. All the dot really does for me is sorta guide my eyes towards the sight as I'm getting everything up to speed.
In other words, it's the top edge of the front sight that should be telling you where the bullet is going to go...and the dot ain't at the top.

DGW

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

Hi guys, so I posted a POLL to help me gather the general consensus of where to put that front dot. Please vote

I couldn't vote because I don't use the dot to aim with. I use the top edge of the sight. All the dot really does for me is sorta guide my eyes towards the sight as I'm getting everything up to speed.
In other words, it's the top edge of the front sight that should be telling you where the bullet is going to go...and the dot ain't at the top.

DGW

Yeah that's what is meant by the poll. The dots are just to help focus eyes but I see your precise point regarding the true intention of the dot. The dots just help focus eyes and some can even distract, worsening aim. It's why a lot of people use a black marker to blot out all or some of the dots or simply swap out the sights for different ones.

If you could clarify whether you place that front sight's top edge to COVER the target or just aim that edge slightly BENEATH the intended target (6 O'Clock), then you can go ahead and vote.

 

[s4s4u]

With iron sights I bisect the target with the top of the blade. IOW, the top of the front sight blade is lined up on center, covering up the lower 1/2 of the target. The dot only serves to get in the neighborhood.

 

[DGW1949]

With iron sights I bisect the target with the top of the blade. IOW, the top of the front sight blade is lined up on center, covering up the lower 1/2 of the target. The dot only serves to get in the neighborhood.

You are saying what I was trying to say only you did a much better job...so thanks for posting that. :wink: .

DGW

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

With iron sights I bisect the target with the top of the blade. IOW, the top of the front sight blade is lined up on center, covering up the lower 1/2 of the target. The dot only serves to get in the neighborhood.

So two people have said to blot out the target with the dot, and another two have said to cover only half the target aka 6 O'Clock

So who is correct? I am very poor and bought this gun for self defense. I just want to shoot at 15-20 yards to feel comfy but I actually cannot do this reliably because I wobble and have low trigger control and don't know how to use these ridiculous sights.

Doesn't look like anyone agrees either. What am I supposed to do? I've read that practicing wrong can develop bad neural pathways that take a very long time to untrain. All I wanted to know is how to use sights. Sights. It's crazy. I just want to know how to use sights. Why is this an impossible questions to answer? I'm baffled.

 

[GunnyGene]

With iron sights I bisect the target with the top of the blade. IOW, the top of the front sight blade is lined up on center, covering up the lower 1/2 of the target. The dot only serves to get in the neighborhood.

So two people have said to blot out the target with the dot, and another two have said to cover only half the target aka 6 O'Clock

So who is correct? I am very poor and bought this gun for self defense. I just want to shoot at 15-20 yards to feel comfy but I actually cannot do this reliably because I wobble and have low trigger control and don't know how to use these ridiculous sights.

Doesn't look like anyone agrees either. What am I supposed to do? I've read that practicing wrong can develop bad neural pathways that take a very long time to untrain. All I wanted to know is how to use sights. Sights. It's crazy. I just want to know how to use sights. Why is this an impossible questions to answer? I'm baffled.

You need to understand that in a SD situation you won't have the time, or the mental capacity, to try to get a nice sight picture. By the time you could do that, you'd be dead or wounded. Ignore the sights - those are for shooting at stationary paper targets and assassinations, and you just said you weren't interested in those.

A person who is threatening your life isn't a nice round 3 inch bullseye. He's a big, mostly vertical blob with a target area that is approx 2.5' high x 14"wide, and often appears at night when you can't see the damn sights anyway. Kinda like the proverbial barn door. Concentrate instead on close up and personal - within 6 feet. You'll be pulling that trigger as soon as you get the barrel pointed in the general direction of your opponent, and probably pointing from your waist with the pistol close to your body, or maybe have to shoot from your bed or sitting in your recliner watching TV. Notice I didn't say aiming. If he's 15 yards or more away, don't waste your ammo getting into a shootout - run like hell if you can - shoot only if you have no other option. And it ain't your job to hunt down some crazy butt head in Wallmart. You'll have a lot easier time in court also.

There is training available for this kind of close quarters combat. And make no mistake, that's exactly what it is.

I recommend you find someone in your area that can teach you. You can't really learn this on-line even tho there are a few video's and such that might give you some idea of what this is all about.

 

[Mike J]

I can't vote because I don't really agree with either of your poll options. FWIW I agree with DGW & s4s4u. My own personal experience in trying to learn to shoot a handgun accurately is that I spent a lot of ammunition (money) & time in an effort to learn this from internet forums. What finally helped me was reading a Massad Ayoob book. Some time after that I took a class because I wanted my sister & to take it & she would go if I did. If you can getting some professional training may be cheaper in the long run than figuring it out on your own.

 

[DGW1949]

With iron sights I bisect the target with the top of the blade. IOW, the top of the front sight blade is lined up on center, covering up the lower 1/2 of the target. The dot only serves to get in the neighborhood.

So two people have said to blot out the target with the dot, and another two have said to cover only half the target aka 6 O'Clock

So who is correct? I am very poor and bought this gun for self defense. I just want to shoot at 15-20 yards to feel comfy but I actually cannot do this reliably because I wobble and have low trigger control and don't know how to use these ridiculous sights.

Doesn't look like anyone agrees either. What am I supposed to do? I've read that practicing wrong can develop bad neural pathways that take a very long time to untrain. All I wanted to know is how to use sights. Sights. It's crazy. I just want to know how to use sights. Why is this an impossible questions to answer? I'm baffled.

It ain't that the answer is wrong, it's that you keep asking the wrong questions in spite of already having received the answer.
In other words, one does not "blot out the target" by completely covering it with the front sight. Leastways, not if he wants to hit it. Nor does he take aim at the bottom edge of the target by using a 6-o'clock hold UNLESS he is shooting at a bullseye of a known diameter AND he has his gun sighted in to shoot high by the same amount as the radius of the bullseye is tall.

Forget the dot and put the top edge of the front sight EXACTLY where you want the bullet to go. If for example, you want to hit the third button down on the guy's shirt, put the top edge of the front sight on the center of the button...Yeah, it really is that simple...but no, that answer don't fit your poll because you ain't covering the target with the dot.
Aim small, miss small...that's the point.

Realize also, that 20 yds is a long way for a new guy to begin learning how to shoot at. It would be better to start a lot closer-in until you get some confidence going.

DGW

 

[s4s4u]

So two people have said to blot out the target with the dot, and another two have said to cover only half the target aka 6 O'Clock

Not sure you understand 6 o'clock. A 6 o'clock hold means to hold the top of the front sight blade UNDER the target and was developed to shoot at a bullseye of a specific size at a specific destance. With a 6 o'clock hold you would sight in with adjustable sights so that the bullet would hit 1-1/2" above the line of sight at 25 yards so it would hit the center of the 3" bullseye when the top of the front sight blade is held at the bottom of that 3" bullseye in bullseye competition. This is done because it is easier to maintain a consistant sight picture with black sights and a black bullseye when you hold at the bottom of the bullseye rather than the middle of it. The center hold is a much more appropriate sight picture for SD.

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

With iron sights I bisect the target with the top of the blade. IOW, the top of the front sight blade is lined up on center, covering up the lower 1/2 of the target. The dot only serves to get in the neighborhood.

So two people have said to blot out the target with the dot, and another two have said to cover only half the target aka 6 O'Clock

So who is correct? I am very poor and bought this gun for self defense. I just want to shoot at 15-20 yards to feel comfy but I actually cannot do this reliably because I wobble and have low trigger control and don't know how to use these ridiculous sights.

Doesn't look like anyone agrees either. What am I supposed to do? I've read that practicing wrong can develop bad neural pathways that take a very long time to untrain. All I wanted to know is how to use sights. Sights. It's crazy. I just want to know how to use sights. Why is this an impossible questions to answer? I'm baffled.

It ain't that the answer is wrong, it's that you keep asking the wrong questions in spite of already having received the answer.
In other words, one does not "blot out the target" by completely covering it with the front sight. Leastways, not if he wants to hit it. Nor does he take aim at the bottom edge of the target by using a 6-o'clock hold UNLESS he is shooting at a bullseye of a known diameter AND he has his gun sighted in to shoot high by the same amount as the radius of the bullseye is tall.

Forget the dot and put the top edge of the front sight EXACTLY where you want the bullet to go. If for example, you want to hit the third button down on the guy's shirt, put the top edge of the front sight on the center of the button...Yeah, it really is that simple...but no, that answer don't fit your poll because you ain't covering the target with the dot.
Aim small, miss small...that's the point.

Realize also, that 20 yds is a long way for a new guy to begin learning how to shoot at. It would be better to start a lot closer-in until you get some confidence going.

DGW

I see. I'm a newbie with the Ruger American 45 but I could shoot my Walther PPX at 20 yards with decent accuracy. I could headshot at 15 yards. Perhaps I was wrong to begin the Ruger at 20 yards. I was hitting the target but the groupings were erratic. I know for sure I was anticipating the recoil, so that was also the issue.

The Ruger has slightly different sights than my Walther which throws me off, it kicks like a mule and overall is bigger. I can hold the kick very still but then I grip so tight that I miss more often. If I loosen my grip I can aim better since I wobble less and have a smoother trigger pull but then I cannot fire a second shot without completely doing my stance again since I allow the kick to flow through my arms more.

I've had to relearn a lot of my stance, grip and breathing technique which has been frustrating because I still had not known that such a minor difference in aim could lead to such a drastic reduction in accuracy. Now that you've said how I should shoot I'll try that. I'm not a pro, nor was I a pro with the PPX but I was confident and reliable. I just want to feel that again. My goals are far from high.

Thanks for helping me guys, I'm not as flustered anymore. I will try again in a week and see how I fare except I'll start at 10 yards, then 15, then 20 if I have the spare ammo.

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

So two people have said to blot out the target with the dot, and another two have said to cover only half the target aka 6 O'Clock

Not sure you understand 6 o'clock. A 6 o'clock hold means to hold the top of the front sight blade UNDER the target and was developed to shoot at a bullseye of a specific size at a specific destance. With a 6 o'clock hold you would sight in with adjustable sights so that the bullet would hit 1-1/2" above the line of sight at 25 yards so it would hit the center of the 3" bullseye when the top of the front sight blade is held at the bottom of that 3" bullseye in bullseye competition. This is done because it is easier to maintain a consistant sight picture with black sights and a black bullseye when you hold at the bottom of the bullseye rather than the middle of it. The center hold is a much more appropriate sight picture for SD.

I think that's why I was also getting confused. This gun has thinner and taller novak sights and the walther had stouter, more plain sights. All I did with the Walther was blot out the target and I was fairly consistent minus not mastering the wobble and trigger control. The Ruger looks and feels different and I was practicing at 20 yards right off the bat. I just was being impatient and expecting one gun to be identical to another.

 

[blume357]

I grew up thinking you were supposed to cover the target with the very tip of the front sight.... Was not until I took a NRA handgun course that I learned how wrong I was.... In handgun shooting it will only matter if you are shooting at distance or the bulls eye is smaller than the front sight... which is the whole reason for 'resting' the target on the front sight.... there is a point when you can't see the actual bulls eye...

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

I grew up thinking you were supposed to cover the target with the very tip of the front sight.... Was not until I took a NRA handgun course that I learned how wrong I was.... In handgun shooting it will only matter if you are shooting at distance or the bulls eye is smaller than the front sight... which is the whole reason for 'resting' the target on the front sight.... there is a point when you can't see the actual bulls eye...

So I am hearing all sorts of conflicting info. The poll is also divided but I'm gathering that in a self-defense situation it won't matter AND aiming for a particular spot (like a guy's face) will only matter if the target (his face) is far away AND smaller than a couple inches in radius.

I practice headshots. In a self-defense situation (home invasion more likely, I live in a tiny house which attracts all sorts of attention both good and bad) I'd invoke castle doctrine and shoot the guy in the face. As much as I feel confident 2-3 bullets would utterly end a man coming after me in my little house, I simply won't have that time. It's one of the reasons I want to know where to put that god-forsaken front sight.

So the attacker would be only 10' away. Where do I put the front sight? I would imagine at that range doing either would be sufficient except I will not have time to think. I need to practice what I know before an invasion so I can simply react. You can tell me I won't have time to aim, however I might so I should practice correctly. I sleep with my gun 6" from my head and my door to the house is a big hobbit door. I'd have at least 3-4 seconds to react. Counting 1-2 seconds to draw and another 1.5-2 seconds to aim. I could.

Sorry if this all falls into pie in the sky. I bought the gun already from a break-in attempt. The man didn't know I was home and my shouting scared him off when I heard the door being picked (I have no deadbolt). If the man wanted trouble, he'd have had his way with me. As much as I am confident in my HapKiDo skills, people don't usually break in without weapons and in AZ you really just need to be 21 to get a gun. No excuse here why a burglar would not have a gun

 

[Captain America]

To me, where to hold your sight while target shooting and self defense shooting are two completely different things. Target shooting I hold just under where I want the bullet to go. What I recommend for self defense is practice, practice, practice. Your house is small so practice from 10' feet away, eventually you'll gain muscle memory and the gun will point exactly where you want it to. I could remove the sights on my LCR and it wouldn't affect my aim one bit. Dry fire the gun, try to eliminate pulling on the gun when you squeeze the trigger. Watch your three fingers on the grip when you squeeze the trigger, they should not move. Once again, practice, practice, practice, and after you have your technique perfected, practice some more.

 

[s4s4u]

So the attacker would be only 10' away. Where do I put the front sight?

I would be more concerened with trigger control than where you put the front sight at that distance.

 

[DGW1949]

So the attacker would be only 10' away. Where do I put the front sight?

I would be more concerened with trigger control than where you put the front sight at that distance.

I agree.
One intruder @ 10' sounds like a "center mass and keep shooting 'till he's down and out" situation to me. Wasting precious time trying to get everything just right for a perfect head/face shot?...not so much.

Just sayin'.

DGW

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

So the attacker would be only 10' away. Where do I put the front sight?

I would be more concerened with trigger control than where you put the front sight at that distance.

I agree.
One intruder @ 10' sounds like a "center mass and keep shooting 'till he's down and out" situation to me. Wasting precious time trying to get everything just right for a perfect head/face shot?...not so much.

Just sayin'.

DGW

If this is all true then practicing my aim helps only to build confidence and to know my gun, plus it's fun. Center of mass at 10' and keep pulling til he flops over? I always thought that would take more precious time.

Curious, how many 45 Auto bullets under 20' does it take to actually kill a full grown man? I've heard it takes 2-3 9mm bullets to kill them utterly and maybe 1-2 to stop them in their tracks, and only 1-2 to stop them with hollow points. What about for 45's? One thing I've read across all the internet is that no bullet is a true 1 hit instant kill unless it's a headshot. I've even heard that a 70cal bullet still doesn't guarantee enough instant trauma to 1 hit kill unless it's the heart or brain.

I can pull the trigger pretty fast, but shooting a man who's charging me from only 10' feet? I don't know if I could fire this quite that fast to guarantee he won't stab or shoot me in this wild-firing process.

Maybe I should practice hip-firing from 10' for center of mass as fast as I can? If aiming with a sight at that range still takes more time and is still unrealistic in a high stress situation, then maybe I should do as the cowboys did and use those ranges to practice some fast draw-rapid fire techniques for self defense?

 

[Mike J]

How many shots it takes all depends on what you hit. I know from deer hunting I can hold on the same spot (right behind the front shoulder) & get varied results on whether the deer drops right there or runs a little ways before it drops. It mostly depends on how the deer is standing in relationship to where I am (whether it is quartered towards me, away from me, broadside, etc.). This of course makes a difference in what gets hit on the inside.

I haven't gotten to shoot much lately. I have just worked too much. I have finally gotten back to 40 hours the past few weeks but I am expecting about 8 weeks of 6 tens starting the first part of May. When I did practice a lot I learned that after practicing with sighted fire a lot I reached a point where I could hold & point my pistol like I was aiming & look over the sights instead of at them & shoot & make good hits on a paper plate out to about 10 yards. Muscle memory kicked in. It's kinda like how you point a shotgun not try to aim it when shooting clays (something I honestly haven't spent a lot of time on).

 

[GunnyGene]

If this is all true then practicing my aim helps only to build confidence and to know my gun, plus it's fun. Center of mass at 10' and keep pulling til he flops over? I always thought that would take more precious time.

Curious, how many 45 Auto bullets under 20' does it take to actually kill a full grown man? I've heard it takes 2-3 9mm bullets to kill them utterly and maybe 1-2 to stop them in their tracks, and only 1-2 to stop them with hollow points. What about for 45's? One thing I've read across all the internet is that no bullet is a true 1 hit instant kill unless it's a headshot. I've even heard that a 70cal bullet still doesn't guarantee enough instant trauma to 1 hit kill unless it's the heart or brain.

I can pull the trigger pretty fast, but shooting a man who's charging me from only 10' feet? I don't know if I could fire this quite that fast to guarantee he won't stab or shoot me in this wild-firing process.

Maybe I should practice hip-firing from 10' for center of mass as fast as I can? If aiming with a sight at that range still takes more time and is still unrealistic in a high stress situation, then maybe I should do as the cowboys did and use those ranges to practice some fast draw-rapid fire techniques for self defense?

You may think this is BS, but back in the mid-'70s I knew a guy who took two .45 ball slugs to his head and was out of the hospital in a couple days. The slugs had ricocheted off the top of his forehead. Had a mild concussion and a couple pretty nice scars from it. Ball ammo also is often deflected in unpredictable directions by ribs, arms and other body parts, which is largely why handgun hunters don't use it, and instead will shoot a heavy hard cast flat nose solid lead slug on some game animals such as wild pigs.

My point is that people ain't all that easy put down, let alone kill, especially if they are big and muscular from years of working out in the State Pen, and are drugged up. Plan for this, not for some skinny teenager. If you doubt this take a minute to consider the many Marines, Sailors, Airmen, and Soldiers who survive absolutely devastating wounds and in many cases continue to fight before they are eventually evac'd. They ain't called wounded warriors for nothing.

Chose your ammo accordingly.

You also might consider that in a home defense encounter there may well be 2, 3, or more bad guys. As has been said, a pistol - any pistol - is what you use to get to your real gun. Which is a 12 gage or AR usually.

Also, regarding very close quarters - 10' or under - you need to get some training on what is known as "shooting from retention". What it means is shooting and preventing the other guy from taking your gun away from you. Google it.

PS: There's a lot of myth surrounding the .45acp. The ballistics on it don't support the hype. Here's a comparison with the .41 mag (which I have one of) from the same supplier (Underwood https://underwoodammo.com/ ).

45ACP

Technical Information:

Caliber: 45 ACP +P
Bullet Weight: 230 Grains
Bullet Style: Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Ducta-Bright 7a Nickel Plated Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity:1000 fps
Muzzle Energy: 511 ft. lbs.

.41 Mag

Technical Information:

Caliber: 41 Magnum
Bullet Weight: 210 Grains
Bullet Style: Jacketed Hollow Point
Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:

Muzzle Velocity:1560 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1135 ft. lbs.

 

[cyborgt800]

So the attacker would be only 10' away. Where do I put the front sight?

Seriously...the answer is press it into his sternum and fire! At 10' he has closed that distance before you decided to fire and if not then I'd be more worried about the jury than where to aim!

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

So the attacker would be only 10' away. Where do I put the front sight?

Seriously...the answer is press it into his sternum and fire! At 10' he has closed that distance before you decided to fire and if not then I'd be more worried about the jury than where to aim!

Castle doctrine would nullify a jury coming against me like that. In Arizona where I live, if a person breaks into your home or car they are considered lethal threats and can be put down utterly without repercussions from the law. However, if they decide to run away even in the house shooting them in the back is against the law. I live in a tiny house so I am 10' from my door. I'd only have a second or two to react to the burglar or killer if he manages to enter without hindrance right away. I don't have stairs to my door so any robber coming in would have to hop up 3'-4'. That's why I sleep with my gun 6" from my head. In one swoop with one hand I can unholster the gun and aim center of mass in about 1.5 seconds... assuming I wake up!

 

[hittman]

I live in a tiny house so I am 10' from my door. I'd only have a second or two to react

Which makes me wonder why you would practice at 60 feet.

At the 10 feet you have between the front door and yourself ...... it's a point-and-shoot scenario; not aim-then-fire.

 

[Umbra_the_Wolf]

I live in a tiny house so I am 10' from my door. I'd only have a second or two to react

Which makes me wonder why you would practice at 60 feet.

At the 10 feet you have between the front door and yourself ...... it's a point-and-shoot scenario; not aim-then-fire.

I didn't know that. Obviously I practiced at 5, 10, 15, 20, up to 25 yards but it never occurred to me that in a situation like that I would not aim at all. I looked at it like the faster I could shoot well at greater range then I'd be better even at short range. Another guy on this thread simply to practice hip firing at 10'. I will do that for sure. Always thought that was cowboy nonsense til someone simply said to do it.