How many have a Mini 30
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I loved my Mini 30.....lost it in a divorce many years ago.
I would never run steel case in it. Steel case is hard on extractors, and the case coating on the imported stuff may cause chamber and such to get gunked up. Back then I ran all the cheap imported steel case through my Norinco AK (also long gone).
These days I have a PSA AK and have run a couple thousand rounds through it without an issue. It's designed for the stuff. Boy does that stuff shoot dirty.
I may be wrong, but when the Mini 30 came out in the 80's Ruger advised against running steel case through it.
I would never run steel case in it. Steel case is hard on extractors, and the case coating on the imported stuff may cause chamber and such to get gunked up. Back then I ran all the cheap imported steel case through my Norinco AK (also long gone).
These days I have a PSA AK and have run a couple thousand rounds through it without an issue. It's designed for the stuff. Boy does that stuff shoot dirty.
I may be wrong, but when the Mini 30 came out in the 80's Ruger advised against running steel case through it.
bigbillyboy
Hunter
I have two 30's , one wood and one synthetic . I reload for them . I have used some wolf ammo and Winchester white box as far as store bought ammo . Never a problem .........
bigbillyboy
Hunter
You are correct , some buy longer firing pins for their 30's to compensate for the berdan primers .Myself , I will use the ammo it was designed for ........just me
GasGuzzler
Hawkeye
I bought a Yugo instead because of the price and the price to feed it. Now Yugos are valuabe because they're no longer imported and Russian steel case ammo costs as much or more (in some cases) than brass US ammo. Glad I did what I did when I did it. I would consider a blued and wood Mini-30 for the right price but around here if one comes up, seller wants $1200-1400. No thanks.
I've got two Mini 30's and have used steel cased ammo in them for decades. The early Mini doesn't seem as finicky with cycling but the later one is more accurate. Not that either is a target rifle. Like a rimfire they both have preferences about different brands of ammo. Tula and the Commie animals, Silver Bear, Brown Bear and Golden Tiger were most accurate and reliable. Since these brands are no longer available I've been shopping on line and found some Bosnian brass cased ammo that works perfectly. PPU is also good although their soft points always hang up with the last round in the mag binding against the forward wall of the magazine. If you want to deer hunt, get a few boxes of the Federal Fusion. I've got a few stashed for just that purpose. They are great little rifles but you do have to know their limits.
Hankus
Buckeye
I’ve had my mid ‘90s wood/stainless Mini 30 for maybe 12 years now. I have fired Winchester WB through it, and have most of a case of Tula bought back when it was cheap. It loves the WB. The Tula really slams the bolt back hard and ejects the spent casings about 20 feet. It’s sitting in the back of the safe waiting for me to get an adjustable gas block for it.
Mine was a gift from my Ex-Wife after coming home from deployment, 1987 (she was normal for a couple years). This thread is making me relive some memories of that thing......I have a pic of it on the hood of my Dodge Ramcharger 4X4 somewhere......I need to dig that pic up.
As far as steel case ammo I do recall Ruger saying the Mini Thirty was not designed for it. Here is an article I found from American Rifleman years ago:
Q: I've been shooting Russian-made 7.62x39 mm ammunition in my Ruger Mini Thirty. The steel cases are coated in some sort of lacquer for corrosion protection, which I think has been causing rounds to get stuck in the chamber. My brother has had similar issues, and he said the lacquer is causing a residue that is very difficult to remove-even after a thorough cleaning. Anyhow, I believe that this cheap ammunition is a failed product that is being offered and that NRA members should be made aware of the issues.
A: Thank you very much for your question concerning functioning issues of steel-cased ammunition in your Ruger Mini Thirty rifle. This is a sensitive, and sometimes emotional, subject for a number of 7.62x39 mm shooters. Needless to say, proper, efficient, and accurate functioning of firearms, especially autoloaders, requires that the firearm and ammunition "mesh." In other words, the maker of the firearm and the maker of the ammunition must know and appreciate the dimensional and performance standards of the other party. It would do neither of them any good to design and develop their products in total isolation. That would represent not only bad business practice, but also lack of concern for consumer satisfaction, not to mention consumer safety.
That is but one reason for the existence of Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI). Membership in SAAMI is voluntary, but essentially involves the agreement to produce products that will safely fit and function with other members' products. The key word is "tolerance." The tolerances allowed are close, but permit the manufacturers a degree of choice in design.
The 7.62x39 mm is an active SAAMI cartridge. One of the several cartridge "features" defined by SAAMI concerns chamber pressure produced. The means by which this property is measured requires a brass case, which immediately precludes steel-cased ammunition.
To get Ruger's perspective, I contacted a member of the company's service department. He was quite familiar with your concern, and also mentioned issues of extractor breakage and debris from the case coating fouling the firing pin and gas system, and that the ammunition is not to SAAMI specification. Ruger's official comment regarding ammunition is, "Only factory ammunition manufactured to U.S. Industry Standards should be used in a Ruger firearm."
That begs the question of why the same ammunition usually works fine in SKS and AK firearms? (Note that neither guns nor ammunition are produced to SAAMI specs.) The answer goes back to tolerance and design features of the firearm makers. Those rifles and their chambering were designed for infantry use. In such cases, accuracy is important, but reliability is paramount. The Ruger will deliver significantly better accuracy and can be utterly reliable, but it will require that the ammunition used be constructed with the same attention to specifications as the firearm.
-John W. Treakle
As far as steel case ammo I do recall Ruger saying the Mini Thirty was not designed for it. Here is an article I found from American Rifleman years ago:
Q: I've been shooting Russian-made 7.62x39 mm ammunition in my Ruger Mini Thirty. The steel cases are coated in some sort of lacquer for corrosion protection, which I think has been causing rounds to get stuck in the chamber. My brother has had similar issues, and he said the lacquer is causing a residue that is very difficult to remove-even after a thorough cleaning. Anyhow, I believe that this cheap ammunition is a failed product that is being offered and that NRA members should be made aware of the issues.
A: Thank you very much for your question concerning functioning issues of steel-cased ammunition in your Ruger Mini Thirty rifle. This is a sensitive, and sometimes emotional, subject for a number of 7.62x39 mm shooters. Needless to say, proper, efficient, and accurate functioning of firearms, especially autoloaders, requires that the firearm and ammunition "mesh." In other words, the maker of the firearm and the maker of the ammunition must know and appreciate the dimensional and performance standards of the other party. It would do neither of them any good to design and develop their products in total isolation. That would represent not only bad business practice, but also lack of concern for consumer satisfaction, not to mention consumer safety.
That is but one reason for the existence of Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI). Membership in SAAMI is voluntary, but essentially involves the agreement to produce products that will safely fit and function with other members' products. The key word is "tolerance." The tolerances allowed are close, but permit the manufacturers a degree of choice in design.
The 7.62x39 mm is an active SAAMI cartridge. One of the several cartridge "features" defined by SAAMI concerns chamber pressure produced. The means by which this property is measured requires a brass case, which immediately precludes steel-cased ammunition.
To get Ruger's perspective, I contacted a member of the company's service department. He was quite familiar with your concern, and also mentioned issues of extractor breakage and debris from the case coating fouling the firing pin and gas system, and that the ammunition is not to SAAMI specification. Ruger's official comment regarding ammunition is, "Only factory ammunition manufactured to U.S. Industry Standards should be used in a Ruger firearm."
That begs the question of why the same ammunition usually works fine in SKS and AK firearms? (Note that neither guns nor ammunition are produced to SAAMI specs.) The answer goes back to tolerance and design features of the firearm makers. Those rifles and their chambering were designed for infantry use. In such cases, accuracy is important, but reliability is paramount. The Ruger will deliver significantly better accuracy and can be utterly reliable, but it will require that the ammunition used be constructed with the same attention to specifications as the firearm.
-John W. Treakle
Hylander
Blackhawk
I have a Mini-30 that is Awesome. 100% reliable with any ammo and moa with handloads.
Some Mini-30's do need more firing pin protrusion to consistently light off the deeper sitting primers in russian 7.62x39 ammo. I handload .308 and .310 bullets with equal success. Also have an accurate Nosler Non-lead hunting load.
AK's, SKS's have much more firing pin protrusion. ASI makes an excellent replacement firing pin for this reason.
I definitely recommend a new
Mini-30.
Some Mini-30's do need more firing pin protrusion to consistently light off the deeper sitting primers in russian 7.62x39 ammo. I handload .308 and .310 bullets with equal success. Also have an accurate Nosler Non-lead hunting load.
AK's, SKS's have much more firing pin protrusion. ASI makes an excellent replacement firing pin for this reason.
I definitely recommend a new
Mini-30.
Attachments
Some great questions,,, why is my SKS flawless for function yet minute of clay pigeon at 100 with irons & my eyes, off the truck hood no less.
Cloudy memories of the last time I asked this questions I think. My 2 16" SKS rifles might have to do.
Cloudy memories of the last time I asked this questions I think. My 2 16" SKS rifles might have to do.
Hylander
Blackhawk
Nothing wrong with the SKS, another one of my favorites. Mine have all been 100% reliable.
My SKS and AK platforms have been extremely fun and reliable to expend the cheap steel case ammo!
When my Mini Thirty was $300 the SKS was $99 and AKs were around $150......
Hylander
Blackhawk
My first SKS was $69.00
GasGuzzler
Hawkeye
I gave $250 plus 500 rounds of green tips for my AK that's now worth four digits. Mini-30's were $750 then. They are no longer $750. There is exactly ONE for sale on TGT, it's in Austin (gag), it's stainless (gag), it's a folder (gag), it's at an FFL (gag), and it's $1400 (gag).
Smart
bigbillyboy
Hunter
I have an sks from the 80,s I think 59 or 69 as well . It's been years since I shot it. This thread got me itching to get it out .
JohnL
Buckeye
I had a Tula Arsenal made SKS with a banana magazine attached. Stolen in 2005.
Have thought about a Zastava made AK. Not decided if the NATO cartridge or the 7.62 X 39 is more what I want. The NATO cartridge gun is more hunter usable here.
Hylander
Blackhawk
Since you have two good SKS's, the Mini-30 would be a want and yes they are a bit over priced these days.
However, the platform is far from iffy.
It is a well proven platform.
When used with ammo it's designed for...
Hylander
Blackhawk
When used with ammo it's designed for...
True, you do need to use 7.62x39
Although the Mini-30 has been made in other calibers.
Like I said, AK'S AND SKS'S were designed to shoot russian ammo with primers seated much deeper than standard ammo, hence the need for a longer firing pin.
Standard Mini-30 protrusion is about .032 on low and .038 on the high.
I've seen AK's and SKS's with protrusions as much as .062 which is way more than needed.
I have found complete reliable ignition with .042 Protrusion.
AR's are the same way, they need a longer firing pin as well to reliably ignight some russian 7.62x39 ammo.
Anyways, an inexpensive firing pin upgrade hardly makes it in an iffy platform.
You missed my point.
Yes we are talking 7.62X39 Russian. The Mini-Thirty was exclusive to 7.63x39 as far as I recall. The Mini-14 was available in various cals. 5.56/223 of course but I do recall a run of 300's, 6.8 and 222.
It has nothing to do with longer firing pins.
From post #10 on this thread; Ruger's "perspective" of steel case ammo in the Mini:
The Mini requires SAAMI spec ammunition to run reliably and to prevent malfunction/breakage.
Imported steel case is not SAAMI. I will only run it through my AK47, which both are designed for each other.
Hylander
Blackhawk
I got your point.
Yes the Mini-30 was designed for saami spec ammo. That's why I pointed out the specs of firing pin protrusion. Russian milspec ammo has the primers set deeper in the primer pocket, why they do that, I don't know. But that's the reason for more firing pin protrusion. So, yes you need a firing pin of proper lenght.
Yes, it has a lot to do with firing pins, that and extractors are what their talking about breaking.
AK's and SKS's have generous chambers to allow for the crappy coatings baking off that are put on some cases. The Mini-30 has a tighter chamber, so yes it will foul easier. But if you clean your chamber and bolt face regularly, it won't be a problem. I have owned Mini-30's and Mini-14's since the 80's and fired thousands of rounds with only 1 malfunction in a Mini-14 and that magazine related.
Yes the Mini-30 was designed for saami spec ammo. That's why I pointed out the specs of firing pin protrusion. Russian milspec ammo has the primers set deeper in the primer pocket, why they do that, I don't know. But that's the reason for more firing pin protrusion. So, yes you need a firing pin of proper lenght.
Yes, it has a lot to do with firing pins, that and extractors are what their talking about breaking.
AK's and SKS's have generous chambers to allow for the crappy coatings baking off that are put on some cases. The Mini-30 has a tighter chamber, so yes it will foul easier. But if you clean your chamber and bolt face regularly, it won't be a problem. I have owned Mini-30's and Mini-14's since the 80's and fired thousands of rounds with only 1 malfunction in a Mini-14 and that magazine related.
GasGuzzler
Hawkeye
I also think the point was missed judging by the additional responses.
I still can't justify the cost for something that may work if I only use hard to find and expensive ammo ... then again, the best by far steel case 7.62X39 (Golden Tiger) is no longer imported and has skyrocketed. SGAmmo has brass ammo that is less than what Golden Tiger is selling for on Gun Broker. At any rate, the big appeal to most of the 7.62X39 was cost. Now the cost is high and with the AKs and Minis tripling in "value", hardly a use for one now.
I still can't justify the cost for something that may work if I only use hard to find and expensive ammo ... then again, the best by far steel case 7.62X39 (Golden Tiger) is no longer imported and has skyrocketed. SGAmmo has brass ammo that is less than what Golden Tiger is selling for on Gun Broker. At any rate, the big appeal to most of the 7.62X39 was cost. Now the cost is high and with the AKs and Minis tripling in "value", hardly a use for one now.
I agree with GasGuzzler.
Even if I still had my Mini-Thirty I wouldn't be feeding it the cheap crap from Wolf and Tulammo that my AK eats up. I also don't care for reloading for semis. If I bought another 7.62X39 it would most likely be a Ruger American Ranch, and I'd reload for it, if I had the specific need. But I don't.
Same for steel case in pistols. Folks see the cheap bulk price and start shoving it into semi pistols and moan & groan when they don't cycle reliably or have breakage.
My Son-N-Law bought a ton of bulk 380 steel case. I asked him what it was for. He said he had just bought my Daughter a LCP II and thought it would be cheap practice. I bought an equal amount of Winchester bulk 380 and swapped with him. Sure I came out of it with a loss. Don't care. Most likely saved them a bunch of headaches and a broken LCP. That steel case runs through my Makarov just fine.
I still need to dig out the pic of my Mini-Thirty...it's on my list today.....
Even if I still had my Mini-Thirty I wouldn't be feeding it the cheap crap from Wolf and Tulammo that my AK eats up. I also don't care for reloading for semis. If I bought another 7.62X39 it would most likely be a Ruger American Ranch, and I'd reload for it, if I had the specific need. But I don't.
Same for steel case in pistols. Folks see the cheap bulk price and start shoving it into semi pistols and moan & groan when they don't cycle reliably or have breakage.
My Son-N-Law bought a ton of bulk 380 steel case. I asked him what it was for. He said he had just bought my Daughter a LCP II and thought it would be cheap practice. I bought an equal amount of Winchester bulk 380 and swapped with him. Sure I came out of it with a loss. Don't care. Most likely saved them a bunch of headaches and a broken LCP. That steel case runs through my Makarov just fine.
I still need to dig out the pic of my Mini-Thirty...it's on my list today.....
Hylander
Blackhawk
I get it and agree, the price of a new Mini-30 is not inexpensive and the ammo is not as cheap anymore. My point was for the price of an aftermarket firing pin the rifle will reliably cycle 100% with any Russian ammo.
Yes the Golden Tiger is great stuff. My favorite Russian ammo is Barnaul.
My rifles are for hunting mostly, so I do reload for the 7.62x39 even in SKS.
My bolt guns and handguns never get steel cased ammo.
Yes the Golden Tiger is great stuff. My favorite Russian ammo is Barnaul.
My rifles are for hunting mostly, so I do reload for the 7.62x39 even in SKS.
My bolt guns and handguns never get steel cased ammo.
GasGuzzler
Hawkeye
I have the dies and a mold. Hard to say I reload for anything as I haven't been shooting. But I have one rifle in that caliber so the dies and brass as just in case. Just in case I somehow run out of Golden Tiger I bought when it was cheap. If that happens, we're all screwed.
"when used with the ammo it was designed for" This got me curious.
Well, it's way above my pay grade to figure out. The C.I.P ( international standards) had the cartridge listed long before the US military got dimensions & samples from Finland & submitted it to SAAMI in 1979. When SAAMI was through their test didn't agree completely with CIP.
Then,,,, a few years later Ruger wanted to chamber it in a platform that was basically designed for, the 223. But, they had to change some chamber dimensions to lower pressures that would better suit the Mini & submitted new dimensions to SAAMI.
Now, I'll admit after looking back and forth between CIP, SAAMI 1, SAAMI 2 for Ruger, & what has been made since 40's but one maker decided to change for their own use, I just threw in the towel & stopped reading.
Any Philadelphia lawyers here?
Further reading here seem s to indicate the firing pin is the big issue & the ins & outs of that has been explained very well by Hylander. But I never got that far with the research I was doing due the feed failures.
I didn't set out to start controversy here, but it seems everywhere I looked there was controversy about both the cartridge & the rifle itself. Maybe I was looking for love in all the wrong places.
Well, it's way above my pay grade to figure out. The C.I.P ( international standards) had the cartridge listed long before the US military got dimensions & samples from Finland & submitted it to SAAMI in 1979. When SAAMI was through their test didn't agree completely with CIP.
Then,,,, a few years later Ruger wanted to chamber it in a platform that was basically designed for, the 223. But, they had to change some chamber dimensions to lower pressures that would better suit the Mini & submitted new dimensions to SAAMI.
Now, I'll admit after looking back and forth between CIP, SAAMI 1, SAAMI 2 for Ruger, & what has been made since 40's but one maker decided to change for their own use, I just threw in the towel & stopped reading.
Any Philadelphia lawyers here?
Further reading here seem s to indicate the firing pin is the big issue & the ins & outs of that has been explained very well by Hylander. But I never got that far with the research I was doing due the feed failures.
I didn't set out to start controversy here, but it seems everywhere I looked there was controversy about both the cartridge & the rifle itself. Maybe I was looking for love in all the wrong places.
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