How light do you want your trigger??????

[tkarter]

Fair enough. A safety nor a light trigger will make me shoot a gun when I don't want to.

You are free to feel as you do as am I.

I don't buy other opinions some times myself. Take the P89 accuracy issue that goes on here time after time.

tk

 

[Snake45]

Well, TK, what would you think if someone said to you, "I've never had a car accident and I probably never will." You'd probably be thinking, "Uh-oh, look out." Complacency kills. Not to mention those Irony Gods, who in my experience, never sleep. :wink:

Pride goeth before a fall, and/or a loud noise. :wink:

 

[revhigh]

The trigger on a carried weapon doesn't matter at all if it is in a good holster that covers that trigger to avoid inadvertent discharge.

tk

With all due respect, I disagree, and so do many of the top people in the field of self-defense.

Yeah, I tend to agree with that Snake, there's a lot more ramifications to the trigger on a carry gun than the fact that it won't go off being taken in or out of the holster.

It's been proven that during a confrontation that ANY movement on the perp's part can cause your muscles to contract, and the first muscle that contracts is the hand muscles. If you have a 3 pound carry trigger, and it goes off accidentally, YOU are going to jail, unless you can prove that the perp was attacking you in a life threatening manner. There's more to an armed confrontation than shooting ... many times just brandishing the gun and holding the person at gunpoint can end it. If your trigger is so light that breathing on it can release it, and that happens, you will soon have Big Bubba for a roomate and the perp (or his heirs) will be living in your house.

If you ever want to read a book that may convince you NEVER to carry a weapon, read Massad Ayoob's 'In the Gravest Extreme'. From the minute that you pull that trigger, your life will never be the same, and I'm not talking about the moral aspects of shooting someone. I've read it about 4 times, as well as his other books. You hear people talk cavalierly about carrying, but trust me ... it is a hell of a legal and financial risk for any non-LEO to carry a loaded weapon.

Believe it or not, once you, as a law abiding citizen pull that trigger, the ENTIRE justice system shifts from protecting you, to penalizing you, unless your shoot is so outrageously righteous that there's absolutely no question involved, which is VERY RARE.

Don't believe me ??? READ THE BOOK. Massad Ayoob knows his $hit, and has seen it all. It always makes me laugh when you hear the tough guys crow about how THEY KNOW THE LAWS, and THEIR STATE HAS PROTECTION FOR SELF DEFENSE SHOOTINGS, etc. etc. They'll find out exactly how much they know when they're indicted by the grand jury for manslaughter. It's only self defense after a TRIAL DETERMINES THAT IT WAS SELF DEFENSE if there is any gray area AT ALL. Try explaining how your 3 pound trigger job helps your accuracy when the prosecutor paints you as a trigger happy gun freak that couldn't be satisfied with the trigger the way the factory supplied it, that you, in your bloodthirsty lust, had to make it EASIER for you to kill someone. Or how factory ammo wasn't good enough ... that you had to create EVEN MORE DEADLY AMMO. There won't be ONE gun afficionado on the jury that will understand for ONE SECOND why you had to make your gun even MORE DEADLY.

I know this will get into a whole other discussion whether I'm right or wrong .... my only reply will be the above ... READ THE BOOK.

REV

 

[tkarter]

I will let you know when I have my first car accident too.

What I take you to mean with your post is what suits you for carry. I don't believe it should therefore be mandated for me.

If you want a heavy pulling trigger and 10 external safeties and it works for you fine.

I stand by I don't care what trigger a gun has on it and don't need and want a safety on my handguns.

I don't believe I have ever started a thread here or elsewhere about what a handgun needs to be or shouldn't be carried.

We are all different for sure. We all have different levels of awareness.

It is fun to banter back and forth some times.

Carry a Ruger auto nobody ever had one with a light DA pull.

Glocks are for folks that don't mind shooting themselves.

tk

 

[revhigh]

Carry a Ruger auto nobody ever had one with a light DA pull.

Yeah, I think you're OK there tk !

REV

 

[tkarter]

I really do think my next carry gun will be a Ruger single action .44 mag.

Will let the auto do backup.

tk

 

[Snake45]

Pride goeth before a fall, and/or a loud noise. :wink:

Remember this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeGD7r6s-zU

"I'm the only one in this room professional enough...."

The Irony Gods never sleep! :wink:

 

[Snake45]

The trigger on a carried weapon doesn't matter at all if it is in a good holster that covers that trigger to avoid inadvertent discharge.

tk

With all due respect, I disagree, and so do many of the top people in the field of self-defense.

Yeah, I tend to agree with that Snake, there's a lot more ramifications to the trigger on a carry gun than the fact that it won't go off being taken in or out of the holster.

It's been proven that during a confrontation that ANY movement on the perp's part can cause your muscles to contract, and the first muscle that contracts is the hand muscles. If you have a 3 pound carry trigger, and it goes off accidentally, YOU are going to jail, unless you can prove that the perp was attacking you in a life threatening manner. There's more to an armed confrontation than shooting ... many times just brandishing the gun and holding the person at gunpoint can end it. If your trigger is so light that breathing on it can release it, and that happens, you will soon have Big Bubba for a roomate and the perp (or his heirs) will be living in your house.

If you ever want to read a book that may convince you NEVER to carry a weapon, read Massad Ayoob's 'In the Gravest Extreme'. From the minute that you pull that trigger, your life will never be the same, and I'm not talking about the moral aspects of shooting someone. I've read it about 4 times, as well as his other books. You hear people talk cavalierly about carrying, but trust me ... it is a hell of a legal and financial risk for any non-LEO to carry a loaded weapon.

Believe it or not, once you, as a law abiding citizen pull that trigger, the ENTIRE justice system shifts from protecting you, to penalizing you, unless your shoot is so outrageously righteous that there's absolutely no question involved, which is VERY RARE.

Don't believe me ??? READ THE BOOK. Massad Ayoob knows his $hit, and has seen it all. It always makes me laugh when you hear the tough guys crow about how THEY KNOW THE LAWS, and THEIR STATE HAS PROTECTION FOR SELF DEFENSE SHOOTINGS, etc. etc. They'll find out exactly how much they know when they're indicted by the grand jury for manslaughter. It's only self defense after a TRIAL DETERMINES THAT IT WAS SELF DEFENSE if there is any gray area AT ALL. Try explaining how your 3 pound trigger job helps your accuracy when the prosecutor paints you as a trigger happy gun freak that couldn't be satisfied with the trigger the way the factory supplied it, that you, in your bloodthirsty lust, had to make it EASIER for you to kill someone. Or how factory ammo wasn't good enough ... that you had to create EVEN MORE DEADLY AMMO. There won't be ONE gun afficionado on the jury that will understand for ONE SECOND why you had to make your gun even MORE DEADLY.

I know this will get into a whole other discussion whether I'm right or wrong .... my only reply will be the above ... READ THE BOOK.

REV

PREACH IT, REV!

 

[Snake45]

I really do think my next carry gun will be a Ruger single action .44 mag.

tk

Have you decided at what point you'll cock it? Are you gonna cock it as it comes out, or when you make the decision to shoot?

 

[tkarter]

There are legions of folks that know how to treat a gun.

Sorry you think I am coming from the it can't happen to me crowd.

I know full well how fast things can go south.

That is what the key to the issue is.

Knowing how easy it is to mess up. Understanding that you could mess up and then preventing messing up.

That safety you are staking your life and others on is the false security.

Disagree with me all you like. I am not changing my gun handling practices over a forum thread.

tk

 

[Cholo]

As far as the OP: I like 6-8#'s on my SD handguns. What I carry is over 10#'s. Hey, I like it :wink:

Too funny on the DEA agent!! I heard about it but never saw a clip.

"I know full well how fast things can go south." tkarter

How did you react under duress when it all went down so fast? It's happened to me 2x. By sharing your 1st hand experience with us I'm sure there's something we can all learn from it. How 'bout it?

I put my "Cujo the almost dead dog after I could have shot a hole in my roof" story for all the RF world to see. How did you react and what were the results?

 

[tkarter]

The first time I reacted I had no gun I took the gun away from the dirt bag that managed to shoot me 3 times.

How I get when things get tough. I get meaner than the perp period.

I think depending upon safeties to keep one from accidentally causing a problem is about the silliest way to think ever.

You called what happened a failure. It wasn't even though the safety was off you never pulled the trigger. Yeah you admitted your finger was there.

What you need to fix is the finger. Not remember the safety.

People want rules. Like a gun has to have a safety and 25 pound trigger pull.

LOL that has nothing to do with what makes the tool that the gun is work.

It is user invoked period.

tk

 

[Cholo]

Sorry to hear about your getting shot. I remember the time I had a gun pulled on me and the guy said he was going to kill me; Nashville '75...'bout the time my avatar pic was taken. He was just a crazy old basturd who hated long hair. Looooong story. I remember that I wasn't scared...but really angry.

I don't like safties on guns either, but I hope you keep your cool if the time ever comes. It's really hard to say how we'll react until it happens to us. Those that say they do? FOS!

This thread's way off topic...sorry :wink: 6-8# trigger pull and remember boys and girls, keep your finger off the trigger...; on 2nd thought, don't be the DEA agent in the above link! :roll:

 

[tkarter]

A 50 pound trigger can be the end of you as well as the 1 pound trigger.

A trigger is just that a trigger it has to get pulled.

That can happen in your pants or many other places.

Safeties are what I have a problem with on handguns.

People trust them.

Silly imho.

I know why I stand where I do on this subject.

I am not a pat the guy on the back that calls for ten round mags and mag safeties along with no ccw kind of guy.

tk

 

[Snake45]

That safety you are staking your life and others on is the false security.

tk

Uhhhh....excuse me? Can you show me where I've said anything about a "safety" in this thread? :?

 

[ArmedinAZ]

That safety you are staking your life and others on is the false security.

tk

Uhhhh....excuse me? Can you show me where I've said anything about a "safety" in this thread? :?

Well the OP said in the first post:

"My feeling is an actual self defense gun with 5 to 6 pound trigger pull is pretty light and should be carried only with a positive safety that will be always on."

and you said in the next post:

"You are exactly right and don't let anyone tell you different."

just saying.....

And a sincere THANK YOU to all who've contributed to this conversation. This is important stuff for those who carry and the thoughts and experiences shared are invaluble.

 

[Thunderhawk]

The trigger on a carried weapon doesn't matter at all if it is in a good holster that covers that trigger to avoid inadvertent discharge.

tk

With all due respect, I disagree, and so do many of the top people in the field of self-defense.

Yeah, I tend to agree with that Snake, there's a lot more ramifications to the trigger on a carry gun than the fact that it won't go off being taken in or out of the holster.

It's been proven that during a confrontation that ANY movement on the perp's part can cause your muscles to contract, and the first muscle that contracts is the hand muscles. If you have a 3 pound carry trigger, and it goes off accidentally, YOU are going to jail, unless you can prove that the perp was attacking you in a life threatening manner. There's more to an armed confrontation than shooting ... many times just brandishing the gun and holding the person at gunpoint can end it. If your trigger is so light that breathing on it can release it, and that happens, you will soon have Big Bubba for a roomate and the perp (or his heirs) will be living in your house.

If you ever want to read a book that may convince you NEVER to carry a weapon, read Massad Ayoob's 'In the Gravest Extreme'. From the minute that you pull that trigger, your life will never be the same, and I'm not talking about the moral aspects of shooting someone. I've read it about 4 times, as well as his other books. You hear people talk cavalierly about carrying, but trust me ... it is a hell of a legal and financial risk for any non-LEO to carry a loaded weapon.

Believe it or not, once you, as a law abiding citizen pull that trigger, the ENTIRE justice system shifts from protecting you, to penalizing you, unless your shoot is so outrageously righteous that there's absolutely no question involved, which is VERY RARE.

Don't believe me ??? READ THE BOOK. Massad Ayoob knows his $hit, and has seen it all. It always makes me laugh when you hear the tough guys crow about how THEY KNOW THE LAWS, and THEIR STATE HAS PROTECTION FOR SELF DEFENSE SHOOTINGS, etc. etc. They'll find out exactly how much they know when they're indicted by the grand jury for manslaughter. It's only self defense after a TRIAL DETERMINES THAT IT WAS SELF DEFENSE if there is any gray area AT ALL. Try explaining how your 3 pound trigger job helps your accuracy when the prosecutor paints you as a trigger happy gun freak that couldn't be satisfied with the trigger the way the factory supplied it, that you, in your bloodthirsty lust, had to make it EASIER for you to kill someone. Or how factory ammo wasn't good enough ... that you had to create EVEN MORE DEADLY AMMO. There won't be ONE gun afficionado on the jury that will understand for ONE SECOND why you had to make your gun even MORE DEADLY.

I know this will get into a whole other discussion whether I'm right or wrong .... my only reply will be the above ... READ THE BOOK.

REV

Rev, you are so right!
My 3 carry guns, 2 semi-auto and 1 revolver, all have a nice S/D trigger pull of ~10 pounds.

 

[Rat76]

I posted this in another forum in response to a question regarding modifying (lightening) the trigger on a Self Defense Weapon.

In my case it's not wanting to modify my carry piece. I may or may not be alone in this but I want any pistol I carry to have a HEAVY trigger.

Many many years ago when I was young & dumb I found out just how easy a cocked S&W revolver touches off. Particularly when the adrennalin is pumping.
It was a screwed up situation involving my future ex-wife & her ex-husband. No one hurt & the first round up was snake shot & pointed at the ground so no property damage. Probably would have been a good shoot as there was kidnapping (more or less) involved. HOWEVER I learned a cheap lesson that nite.

This was dang near 30 years ago & I still have a healthy respect for the trigger.

Jim, who's not so young any more but probably almost as dumb.

To clarify, I did not intend the gun to go off. It was pointed at the ground & my finger was on the trigger. Did many things wrong that nite. Not all gun related. :wink: Got rid of her a few years later. :lol:

I carry a P40 with the Factory 8 pound trigger AND keep my dang finger OUT of the trigger guard.