How does the safety work on 77 Mk IIs?

[Naphtali]

How does the safety work on 77 Mk IIs - that is, does the 3-position safety cam striker off sear? OR does it block striker from dropping without camming it off sear? OR does the safety act only on trigger or sear? This last, as far as I am concerned is an illusory safety only.

 

[mcknight77]

I was going to answer until I read your tag-line.

 

[dmazur]

I have both a Ruger M77 MkII and a Winchester 70 clone, so I am a little bit familiar with both safeties.

While both are 3-position safeties, and they do the same thing in the same positions, they are not the same.

The Ruger safety is mounted to the receiver and does not travel with the bolt as the Winchester safety does. It blocks the trigger and the cocking piece and extends a pin into the bolt handle to lock it closed when in the rear (safe) position, blocks the trigger and retracts the bolt locking pin in the center (unloading) position, and blocks nothing in the forward (fire) position.

The Winchester safety is part of the bolt. It lifts the cocking piece off the sear and extends a pin into the bolt handle to lock it closed when in the rear (safe) position, continues to hold the cocking piece off the sear and retracts the bolt locking pin in the center (unloading) position, and blocks nothing in the forward (fire) position.

The Winchester safety is the one that lifts the cocking piece off the sear, while the Ruger blocks the trigger from movement (if it is fitted correctly) and also blocks the cocking piece at its tail.

They are both excellent designs. The Ruger 77 Mk II safety is a "double" safety in the rear position, blocking the cocking piece and the trigger. It is only a "single" safety in the unloading position. I think it is a newer design.

The Winchester M70 safety is the style that lifts the striker off the sear, which I believe is the tried-and-true Mauser design.

 

[Naphtali]

dmazur:

Many thanks for your reply. It answers my question superbly. Let me follow with another.

Situation: Rifle cocked, safety on.

Were I to lose control of the rifle - drop it off a hill, or my horse rolls over on it, or any other hypothetical situation where the cocking piece is jarred from sear engagement - how likely is the rifle to drop the striker on a chambered round when safety is disengaged? I ask because I think you described safety's action as not camming strike off sear.

I have both a Ruger M77 MkII and a Winchester 70 clone, so I am a little bit familiar with both safeties.

While both are 3-position safeties, and they do the same thing in the same positions, they are not the same.

The Ruger safety is mounted to the receiver and does not travel with the bolt as the Winchester safety does. It blocks the trigger and the cocking piece and extends a pin into the bolt handle to lock it closed when in the rear (safe) position, blocks the trigger and retracts the bolt locking pin in the center (unloading) position, and blocks nothing in the forward (fire) position.

The Winchester safety is part of the bolt. It lifts the cocking piece off the sear and extends a pin into the bolt handle to lock it closed when in the rear (safe) position, continues to hold the cocking piece off the sear and retracts the bolt locking pin in the center (unloading) position, and blocks nothing in the forward (fire) position.

The Winchester safety is the one that lifts the cocking piece off the sear, while the Ruger blocks the trigger from movement (if it is fitted correctly) and also blocks the cocking piece at its tail.

They are both excellent designs. The Ruger 77 Mk II safety is a "double" safety in the rear position, blocking the cocking piece and the trigger. It is only a "single" safety in the unloading position. I think it is a newer design.

The Winchester M70 safety is the style that lifts the striker off the sear, which I believe is the tried-and-true Mauser design.

 

[mcknight77]

If you don't like the Ruger safety, don't buy one.

Better yet, don't walk around with one in the chamber, or put it in the scabbard on your horse or four-wheeler with one in the chamber. Trusting 100% in any mechanical device, especially safeties is a recipe for eventual disappointment.

Follow the rules of safe gun use, and be safe out there.

Or, maybe you're just trolling for an argument over who has the better safety, Ruger or Winchester?

 

[Bob/Olallawa]

Morning Jim, I think your first post covered it well

 

[mattsbox99]

Naphtali,

It is extremely unlikely, the sear just doesn't have enough mass to slip off. In the situations described the only way the rifle would fire would be if the trigger were also manipulated in the engagement.

 

[dmazur]

For fans of the Winchester M70, no safety is its equal. However, when the M70 safety is off, the cocking piece is pushing on the sear, just like the Ruger when its safety is off. Both safeties block the cocking piece when they are "on". The Ruger has a slightly different arrangement for "unloading" than the Winchester, that's all.

Both my Ruger M77 MkII and Montana Rifle 1999 (M70 clone) pass the "kitchen floor test". The Ruger has a factory trigger pull weight of 2 lbs and the MR 1999 has a factory trigger pull weight of 2.5 lbs. These are considered "light" for a hunting rifle. Many prefer a slightly heavier pull, unless the rifle is used only for target work.

What is perhaps more important, I haven't found a way to "jigger" the safeties on either of these rifles so they fire unexpectedly when I remove the safety. I believe that is the basis of your original question.

It is important to realize that there must not be any play in the trigger when the Ruger safety is on. The sear cannot move if the trigger cannot move (without shearing away metal), so as long as the safety has been "fit" to the trigger, neither the trigger nor the sear can move when the safety is in either the center or rear position. (Of course, it also blocks the cocking piece in the rear position.)

I understand it is common practice to replace the Ruger triggers with an aftermarket trigger. I have no experience with these, but if the Ruger safety is retained (as I believe it usually is), then there must also be no play even with the aftermarket trigger.

 

[6mmsl]

I would recommend consulting with a qualified gunsmith in your area. Have him/her show the mechanical differences of different manufactures both assembled and dis-assembled. The basic function of the safety has been described. I think you need to see these function - because it seems the exact verbiage you seek has not been described.

That being said the Ruger safety works in the hands of a competent rifleman. I am sure if you search long and hard enough you may find some claim of failure under some obscure circumstance. No gun is absolutely safe unless unloaded. Most, if not all firearm accidents are operator error. The unknown variable is you.

There are many fine aspects of the M77 MKII the safety is only one. I hope the safety design does not stop you from acquiring your very own. I believe you would be missing out. I personally have never shopped a firearm solely on the design of the safety and count on my own firearm handling skills to keep me and those around me safe when using firearms.

 

[Naphtali]

Many thanks to those of you who responded to my questions. Regarding the others, is there no way to put members on an "ignore" list?

 

[63November]

Both safeties have their advantages. And both are good safeties. The advantage I see in the M77 safety is that it doesn't lift the striker which means it also won't slip off in the letting off. My most recent Winchester, a pre-revamped company rifle, would allow the firing pin to become misaligned with the receiver way when the safety was on. This caused the bolt to hang up when I tried to push the bolt forward, and it galled the metal on the receiver tang. That can't happen with a Ruger. I like both rifles, however, when they are properly tuned, as that M70 has since been.

 

[dmazur]

I started wondering how an after-market trigger would handle the Ruger M77 safety, so I checked Rifle Basix and their manual explains in some detail how they handle the safety.

Going from the pictures, it looks like they have an "eccentric" screw with a lock nut. The user is supposed to adjust this eccentric screw until there is no trigger movement when the safety is on, then lock it in place by tightening the nut.

I didn't see any reference to lock-tite, but I'd probably use some if I was going to install one of these triggers.

So at least one after-market mfgr has a method to work around the need to have the trigger "fit" to your rifle by a gunsmith (or the Ruger factory). They have an adjustable stop that provides the same function.

(By the way, the instructions start with a prominent warning that advises the user that the only safe gun is an unloaded gun, don't trust mechanical safeties, etc. )

 

[6mmsl]

Timney triggers work as well - you must file the stop until it fits under the safety mechanism. It takes some time but the instructions are good and if you have some mechanical ability it is easy and safe when done -I have a few as well as many on this forum - I believe there are many posts supporting install as well. I have rifle basics as well- but like Timney better. In my past few rifles I left them stock they were good enough fro me.