How Do We Ship Firearms Now?

[Joe Chartreuse]

I have an 1840's Tower Of London (Tower) flintlock pistol that I would like to sell. I have had non-local interest, but would have no idea how to ship it if I sold it. Since this is a pre-1898 item, the fed considers it an antique even though it is functional. No paperwork needed. However, shippers are taking it on themselves to be PITAs. Of course I have a FID, but UPS ( normally mt most trusted shipper) would probably just confiscate it, and others seem to be following suit. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[RSIno1]

Toss it in a box and send it from the post office. It's muzzle loaded using black powder so therefore not considered a firearm by the feds (this applies to replicas of those antique guns too - like yours). It's up to the receiver to know the laws in their state on where it needs to be sent. Here in CA it's 100% legal to have it sent right to your front door no FFL required.

 

[RoninPA]

You could probably get away with sending it through the USPS because they don't actually say you can't but don't actually say you can. Here's what the USPS says:

Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

They do not give a definition of a curio and relic collector, so if you have one, then I guess you are a C&R collector and if you sell it it must be that the buyer is a C&R collector also.

If you don't want to push the envelope, take it to a FFL (gun dealer) and have the ship it for you since UPS has now declared that only FFL's (who have a signed agreement with them) can ship firearms I believe FedEx is going that way also if they haven't yet.

 

[RSIno1]

Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

Key word here is firearm the feds say black powder guns as long as they do not used fixed ammunition (cartridges) are NOT FIREARMS.
Demanding shipment between FFLs will increase the cost and greatly reduce your customer base.
C&R Collectors probably refers to those who hold 03 FFL licenses - reading the fine print in the law will probably clarify it.

 

[eveled]

I had a deal set up for a Ruger Old Army. The seller insisted we use FFL’s. Then even tgat wasn’t good enough and he backed out of the deal.

 

[Wvfarrier]

Use "shipmygun.com" I asked them and they said they have a "carve out" from UPS. They are a subsidiary of Budsgunshop

 

[Kevin]

Can someone who has used “ship my gun”.com please explain the process?

I’ve found a LGS, if I remember correctly, they charge a flat $50 or $60 per handgun. That’s everything. It might have been $65, something like that.

Is shipmygun cheaper?

 

[RoninPA]

What you are saying is correct, but I believe the USPS has purposely made it not completely clear so it can be read numerous ways (by their people if desired.)

To the OP's questions, Yes, legally he can mail the gun to the buyer. BUT, a local post office might put up a fight if they know it is a handgun, even though it is an antique and allowed (and NO, you do not have to tell them what is in the package and personally I have never had them ask anything other than the standard shipping questions.) Then you have to get the post master of the PO involved and possibly even go higher than that if the postmaster nixes the shipment. That is one reason I suggested using a FFL to ship it unless he wants to try to educate that PO (personally I would but I know where to send them to read their own regs.)

If the FFL is fair and will not gouge people to ship something, that can actually increase their customer base as word gets around that he treats people fairly. I have had people come to me to ship a gun they sold because they heard from another customer of mine that I don't try to take advantage of them. Then they learn what I charge to do transfers and they keep coming back.

 

[GunnyGene]

The problem is that the new rules by ATF, UPS, and the big 3 credit card companies, has everyone running scared, whether it's warranted or not. Nobody wants to get on their radar and end up on some list.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

You could probably get away with sending it through the USPS because they don't actually say you can't but don't actually say you can. Here's what the USPS says:

Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

They do not give a definition of a curio and relic collector, so if you have one, then I guess you are a C&R collector and if you sell it it must be that the buyer is a C&R collector also.

If you don't want to push the envelope, take it to a FFL (gun dealer) and have the ship it for you since UPS has now declared that only FFL's (who have a signed agreement with them) can ship firearms I believe FedEx is going that way also if they haven't yet.

To be considered a Curio & Relic Collector you must have an FFL03 license.

 

[T.A. WORKMAN]

You could probably get away with sending it through the USPS because they don't actually say you can't but don't actually say you can. Here's what the USPS says:

Firearms meeting the definition of a handgun under 431.2 and the definition of curios or relics under 27 CFR 478.11 may be mailed between curio and relic collectors only when those firearms also meet the definition of an antique firearm under 431.3.

They do not give a definition of a curio and relic collector, so if you have one, then I guess you are a C&R collector and if you sell it it must be that the buyer is a C&R collector also.

If you don't want to push the envelope, take it to a FFL (gun dealer) and have the ship it for you since UPS has now declared that only FFL's (who have a signed agreement with them) can ship firearms I believe FedEx is going that way also if they haven't yet.

Ron,

Ron
Here in Ohio it has always been legal for private firearm owners to ship hand guns to another Ohio resident who is a private firearm owner with in the state. Do you think that the new regulations will change that?
Terry

 

[harley08]

I have an 1840's Tower Of London (Tower) flintlock pistol that I would like to sell. I have had non-local interest, but would have no idea how to ship it if I sold it. Since this is a pre-1898 item, the fed considers it an antique even though it is functional. No paperwork needed. However, shippers are taking it on themselves to be PITAs. Of course I have a FID, but UPS ( normally mt most trusted shipper) would probably just confiscate it, and others seem to be following suit. Anyone have any ideas?

Put in a box, label it auto parts and ship it

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

Put in a box, label it auto parts and ship it

I'm pretty sure the USPS scans packages

 

[RoninPA]

I'll answer the questions and comments that were made:

You do not need a 03 FFL to collect C&R firearms, the 03 FFL just makes things easier to do. The 03 FFL basically is a just a special FFL for collectors of C&R firearms. The ATF generally considers any gun at least 50 years old to be a Curio and Relic. But, there are some exceptions for certain newer guns as well, such as some semi auto military rifles and pistols that are less than 50 years old.

The Type 03 FFL is not a license to sell guns, or to acquire guns for resale. It is only intended to facilitate building a collection of old guns. This means it is only for private, personal use. However, it allows you to purchase eligible guns without additional background checks and paperwork on each gun. Now, some states with very restrictive gun laws may ignore your 03 FFL and still require background checks on certain kinds of guns.

I say get this FFL if you are a serious collector of old guns. It only costs $30 to apply, and $30 to renew every 3 years. Oh, one thing to remember - as an 03 FFL you must maintain a acquisition/disposition book that the ATF can inspect whenever they want to.
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Terry, Yes, things are going to change because the states cannot dictate how a private company (UPS) decides to do it's business and USPS regs say a non FFL cannot ship a handgun, only FFLs are allowed to do that. Now, that said, if there are smaller private shipping companies that will ship/deliver firearms (handguns) for a private person, then the state law is still in effect.
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I would strongly advise NOT putting a handgun in a box and then say it is auto parts. One, if it gets lost or stolen, and you try to make a claim for what you insured it for, you will have to prove it is what you said it was and lies only grow and the longer the story goes on, the harder it is to try to remember your story. Then, when they prove you were lying, you get ZERO dollars and the possibily of legal action against you by the USPS for mail fraud. Or, if the package comes open and the postal workers see what it is they have to report it and then how do you try to explain that?
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USPS does not scan all packages, normally they will scan something if they are suspicious about what may be inside and that package is picked up by the postal inspector section, they do what they need to do then take legal action(s) as required . This information was given to me by the postmaster of my local PO and he happens to be a very good customer (and friend) of mine and I trust him.