honest

[weedfarmer]

first like to say love comments on all the guns . Now I 'am not a great shot an some people give some amazing results from shooting .
Are these from a standing position or on a bench. You guys girl make me really feel like a lousy shot. :lol:

 

[roylt]

I'm not very great either but I usually have fun. 6 to 8 inch groups are common at 25 yards. 9mm, 40mm, 357, 38. I have a couple other calipers but haven't shot them yet

Welcome to the forum.

 

[revhigh]

first like to say love comments on all the guns . Now I 'am not a great shot an some people give some amazing results from shooting .
Are these from a standing position or on a bench. You guys girl make me really feel like a lousy shot. :lol:

You also have to realize that most of these groups are being shot at 21 feet. That is EXTREMELY close for 'target shooting'. ANY gun should perform as shown (or better) at those distances. It's when you move back to 50 feet or 25 yards that both the gun's groups AND the shooter's groups really open up. 7 yards is not really a very good test of a gun, a shooter, OR the sights. If a person argues that it's only a self defense gun ... at 7 yards the sights likely wouldn't even be used.

The same shooter that shot the groups you're describing may shoot an 8 inch group at 50 feet and only be able to hit the paper half the time at 25 yards. You always have to look at the DISTANCES that these groups are being shot at to determine just how good they are.

You could probably do the same at 7 yards. Virtually ANY handgun can.

If I'm thinking of what you're thinking of ... it's really about a 2.5 - 3 inch group if it was measured .... which is nothing to write home about .... for a gun OR a shooter .... at 7 yards.

DISTANCE is EVERYTHING in evaluating group size .... don't be discouraged.

REV

 

[Verndog]

first like to say love comments on all the guns . Now I 'am not a great shot an some people give some amazing results from shooting .
Are these from a standing position or on a bench. You guys girl make me really feel like a lousy shot. :lol:

Not to worry, most people are not going to post their "bad ones". Also if you were to change your crop from weed to corn you may see an improvement.

 

[revhigh]

first like to say love comments on all the guns . Now I 'am not a great shot an some people give some amazing results from shooting .
Are these from a standing position or on a bench. You guys girl make me really feel like a lousy shot. :lol:

Not to worry, most people are not going to post their "bad ones".

Aint that the truth ...

REV

 

[roylt]

Forgot to really answer your post. I alway shoot standing up. I don't have any bags or anything to shoot off yet. I would like to have some though so I could see if it is the gun or me that is so bad. HAHA

 

[rammerjammer]

I don't post my range time results but I too am suspicious of some people's results.

When I read that some guy is claiming that he got 2" groups with his glock at 50 yards I call shenanigans

 

[revhigh]

I don't post my range time results but I too am suspicious of some people's results.

When I read that some guy is claiming that he got 2" groups with his glock at 50 yards I call shenanigans

Make that BULL shenanigans .....

REV

 

[Verndog]

I don't post my range time results but I too am suspicious of some people's results.

When I read that some guy is claiming that he got 2" groups with his glock at 50 yards I call shenanigans

Make that BULL shenanigans .....

REV

Thats what is so awesome about the internet. It can turn the average desk jockey into a top level sharp shooter in a few easy keystrokes....no practice even required! :shock: :twisted:

 

[revhigh]

These were all shot at 50 feet freehand. Not my best but not too bad either. Top is a Colt Gold Cup National Match .... bottom is a lowly Springfield GI with a really good trigger job (about 2 pounds) ... note the crappy GI sights on the Springer .... that gun DOES shoot though .... not bad for $400 used. You don't need to spend a fortune to have a good shooting 1911.

I don't need no steeenkin beavertails and holey hammers .... LOL.

 

[blume357]

SO, true.... it is always kind of frustrating when folks post their results and then don't give ALL the specs... like distance and how they were shooting... standing... prone... sitting... with range bags or what.

Oh, and revhigh I don't know if you were posting in reference to what rammerjammer wrote... but keep in mind there is a difference between 50 feet and 50 yards.

 

[Ratster]

I can't even see those little orange dots at 50', let alone hit them.

 

[revhigh]

Oh, and revhigh I don't know if you were posting in reference to what rammerjammer wrote... but keep in mind there is a difference between 50 feet and 50 yards.

Wasn't posting in regard to rammerjammer blume.

Yeah ... there's just a LITTLE difference ... about 100 feet or THREE times as far. I rarely shoot at 50 yards with handguns, but we do have some gongs at that distance that I can hit pretty regularly.

REV

 

[Anonymous]

I'm with some of the others, I can't even SEE the 10-ring from more than 15 yards away. I shoot at an indoor range, and having to bring back the target every 3 shots to see where my rounds are landing is the pits.
Going to the range today, working on shooting kinda- sideways- as if leaning around a corner-wall. worried about hitting target, much less center-mass.

 

[Al James]

To the OP....don't worry about shooting little groups in a paper target with a handgun especially at 25 yards and beyond! Sure, shooting at a paper target is great if you want to check your sight alignment and general accuracy of the weapon. I quickly get bored of shooting paper and prefer more reactive targets anyways. Steel [careful]Golf and tennis balls, plastic bottles, clay targets, range trash, etc. The more it moves the better.

It is my thought that it is wiser to practice your draw/presentation and making fast effective hits at practical handgun distances [ie longest hallway in your house, office, etc]. Try to shoot accurate "enough" as fast as you can. Both the speed and accuracy of these hits will improve with practice. No bad guys are going to complain about the group size in their chest. I have meet quite a few guys who can shoot great groups, with guns they never carry.....slowly.

As my Grandpa used to say "handguns are made for killing people" and while he used to say that to explain why he didn't own any, I still remember that saying of his when pondering handgun accuracy. They are not varmint rigs or sniper rifles. They are [for most of us]defensive weapons to be used as a last resort instead of proper fighting weapon [ie a rifle].

Both center mass and head shots don't require match grade accuracy IMO. A 4" group @25 yards kills just as good as a 1-2" at the same distance. And if you are shooting past 25 yards with a handgun in a defensive situation, you did not come prepared for the party. Practice, practice, repeat.

 

[Anonymous]

AlJames- I do exactly that, I practice- a good bit- one-handed shooting- a little off-hand, only partly 2-handed while taking careful aim. I practice point-shooting- raising and shooting quickly one-handed- (we can't draw & shoot, indoor range). I don't have time or cost of hundreds of rounds to practice EVERYthing, so I practice most likely situations. Being surprised, raising the gun and firing fast, one-handed. Today I practiced leaning way over, as if I was looking around a corner- both 2-handed and one-handed, leaning to both sides. This practrice sems much more practical to me- you know what I mean- instead of trying to hit the center of target, using two hands, holding steady, breathing...

 

[weedfarmer]

like that weed to corn funny

 

[ArmedinAZ]

2 different subjects. Deliberate accuracy vs. combat ability.

Both are important and both should be practiced. Nobody ever complains about their shooting or their pistol being TOO accurate. :wink:

 

[Cheesewhiz]

I judge handguns and myself for accuracy at 50' or 25yds shooting at paper targets most often. I shoot those guns offhand almost always.
Like Rev, I don't shoot a pistol or revolver from a bench, bag or rest very well. I have come to the conclusion that many younger shooters don't really care all that much about accuracy at those normal target ranges.
I would say that if you can't shoot a 4" to 6" group at 50' with a normal sized gun, you need to work at it just to get to a point that you can look at to get back to later.

...being combat accurate at 21' is a flag to wrap around yourself.

 

[Verndog]

I would say that if you can't shoot a 4" to 6" group at 50' with a normal sized gun, you need to work at it just to get to a point that you can look at to get back to later.

Wow whiz....I really hope your not driving tonight! :lol:

 

[Cheesewhiz]

:lol: Yeah, pretty clunky sentence.

My point is you don't know how good or bad you are if you shoot at 21'. A flinch is off only a lttle at that distance, easily dismissed.

Things grow geometrically as distance is extended, it's not in an even distance to group ratio. More like three times plus another two times.

If you shoot a two inch target at paper set out 21' and you absolutely know when you are going to shoot and you also know it doesn't shoot back, that's 12" to 14" at 50' under no duress whatsoever.

...under duress...???

You can't see yourself getting better or worse until you push it and know that point and can find it again and again.

 

[Verndog]

If you shoot a two inch target at paper set out 21' and you absolutely know when you are going to shoot and you also know it doesn't shoot back, that's 12" to 14" at 50' under no duress whatsoever.

I'd really like to know how you come up with that?

It's basic trig to calculate.

2" off at 21ft = angle of .0079 degs. Calculated that same .0079 degs. angle off at 50ft = 4.74" off. :?:

Is there a side wind at somewhere around 30'?? :lol:

 

[Cheesewhiz]

If you shoot a two inch target at paper set out 21' and you absolutely know when you are going to shoot and you also know it doesn't shoot back, that's 12" to 14" at 50' under no duress whatsoever.

I'd really like to know how you come up with that?

It's basic trig to calculate.

2" off at 21ft = angle of .0079 degs. Calculated that same .0079 degs. angle off at 50ft = 4.74" off. :?:

You don't shoot very much, do you?

 

[Cheesewhiz]

By your trig, at 25yds you should be able to put up a 6" or 7" target when you shoot 2" at 21', good luck with that.

 

[Verndog]

You don't shoot very much, do you?

Is that your answer?

A question is not an answer....but I'll play. By your standards prob. not. :wink:

 

[Verndog]

By your trig, at 25yds you should be able to put up a 6" or 7" target when you shoot 2" at 21', good luck with that.

It's not my trig, it's been handed down for 1000's of years. Ancient Egyptians used it to build pyramids. Math is math, it's never wrong when done correct. :wink:

 

[Cheesewhiz]

...and again, it doesn't work that way.

As the target center gets farther away and you, not the gun, angle off of that center point and you will, things get a bit hairy out in the lone country.

Vern, next time out try it (21', 50', 25yds), you'll see what I mean.

 

[Verndog]

...and again, it doesn't work that way.

As the target center gets farther away and you, not the gun, angle off of that center point and you will, things get a bit hairy out in the lone country.

Vern, next time out try it out (21', 50', 25yds), you'll see what I mean.

I hear what your saying, but please hear me also. That very same shot in a straight line would be those numbers calculated with that angle. There may be other factors that come to play that make it worse at greater distances, vision, ammo, wind, head...ect. To be honest I usually shoot 25 -35' and occasionally take to the indoor range limit of 50'. I have noticed I was further out then expected but figured it to be me as I don't shoot enough at that distance to be great there.

 

[Cheesewhiz]

...and again, it doesn't work that way.

As the target center gets farther away and you, not the gun, angle off of that center point and you will, things get a bit hairy out in the lone country.

Vern, next time out try it out (21', 50', 25yds), you'll see what I mean.

I hear what your saying, but please hear me also. That very same shot in a straight line would be those numbers calculated with that angle. There may be other factors that come to play that make it worse at greater distances, vision, ammo, wind, head...ect. To be honest I usually shoot 25 -35' and occasionally take to the indoor range limit of 50'. I have noticed I was further out then expected but figured it to be me as I don't shoot enough at that distance to be great there.

Vern, I'm an engineer. I learned long ago how things are suppose to work. You actually made my point with this post. People's predictable actions take the science out of things, the unpredictable actions do even more so.

 

[Verndog]

If what your saying is true, then your saying from 21' to 50' you have a 6 to 7 times ratio that you get worse. So then this group of Revs being 7x better from 50' back to 21' would mean pretty much 1 bullet hole??