Help me buy a Number 1!!!!!

[trauma1]

I am looking for a "big bore" rifle (>40cal.). No real reason other than I just want one. Would complete my center-fire rifle caliber collection - .223, 257bob, 30-06., 375H&H, ???? Need help deciding between a few choices. I reload and mostly plink around. Would use to hunt maybe, especially if I ever get to Africa - come on luck lottery numbers! I am leaning towards #1 and #2 the most due to versatility and availability of components. What would you pick and why?

1) 450/400 Nitro Express
2) 458 Win Mag
3) 45/70 govt
4) 416 Ruger

 

[R1895]

I'd have to recommend the .45-70 only because it sounds as though chances are slimmer for African hunting than domestic. The .45-70 is extremely versatile and will not only load way down to trapdoor plinker rounds, and all the way up to African DG rounds, but for plenty in between. They can use a fairly wide range of bullet weights and powders. As a cartridge, Cowboy action to African action, can't go wrong.

 

[gewehrfreund]

45-70, or if you really think you're going to Africa, the 458 Win Mag.

 

[No-1]

Get the 458 you can always load it down to 45-70 level. I've got one and am totally prepared for any rouge elephant that may visit the neighborhood.

 

[JFB]

458...
If you want a 416, go for the Rigby

 

[hammie]

I'd have to side with "R1895" and say the .45-70 for the same reasons stated in his post. Plus, the .45-70 #1S is still supposed to be in production this year (2013). If you can't find a used .45-70, you should be able to order a new one. Theoretically anyway- ruger's production schedules are so variable and the availability of any gun is so unknown right now.

Or you could look for something a little more oddball and try for a .405 winchester, which if I'm not mistaken, was a favorite cartridge of teddy roosevelt's.

 

[mike-c]

Greetings,

I have a stainless number one in 416 Ruger, and I am very happy with it. I load 350 grain cast bullets with gas check up to about 1,800 to 2,000 fps. The recoil from this load is managable. The 375 Ruger can be blown out to make 416 brass. Yes, I could have chosen any of the other calibers, but I got the 416...

Mike 8)

 

[WMB30]

trauma1

shooter has a like new 45/70 in the classifieds

Bill

 

[George Tucker]

I have two 45-70 #1 Rifles and two custom .375 H&H Rifles, if there is any chance of going to Africa, i would add a .416 Rigby to your Collection, George.

 

[captainkirk]

I went with the 458 myself partly due to availability of components and the heavy barrel. Weight is really the only thing lacking in the 45-70. It is a good "carrying" rifle, but when shooting the heavier loads, weight is your friend.

captainkirk

 

[txpitdog]

Find a 458 Lott. You can shoot 458 win mag in it and also load it down to 45-70.

 

[RonS]

I went price shopping on Midway while waiting for supper to be ready.
All Hornady components to be consistent.

.405 Hornady InterLock $26.99 50

.416 Hornady InterLock $38.49 50

.458 Hornady InterLock $27.49 50



.405 Winchester Brass, $49.99 50

.416 Ruger Brass, $48.99 50

.416 Rigby Brass, $40.99 20, (extended $102.48 50)

.45-70 Govt Brass, $45.99 50

.458 Winchester Brass, $54.99 50

I always wanted a .416 Rigby but the brass cost would kill it for me.
I know the .405 isn't a classic cartridge in anything but an 1895 but I would have to consider it for a fun big bore.

 

[dfletcher]

FWIW, I'd also skip the 416 Ruger or 416 Remington for that matter in favor of a 416 Rigby. I have a CZ 550 in the Rigby and it just speaks to big game use in Africa. I have 2 larger bore No1s - a 375 H & H and the 458 WinMag. The 458 is versatile with lighter bullets, cast lead and the heavier stuff. proper diameter bullets are pleniful, something not true of the .416.

I'd consider the 470 Nitro too. Similar to the 458 but a bit more classic.

 

[leon670]

I recommend that you shop used if choosing an elephant gun. "Once fired" examples should be plentiful and cheap. :D

 

[George Tucker]

Mabey they should be, but they are not, around here anyway, George.

 

[Ladobe]

If a 416 I'd also opt for the Rigby too as I've had a couple (including a 10" custom TC Encore barrel).

Other wise the 45-70 if you want to load down from it (have also had some of those - both in rifle and handgun). The 458 I had was a bolter long ago, so I am way out of touch with them.

 

[No-1]

I recommend that you shop used if choosing an elephant gun. "Once fired" examples should be plentiful and cheap. :D

+1 my like new 458 with nice wood and a red pad was $700 here in SoCal.

 

[leon670]

I once read that the .375 H&H has approximately double the free recoil energy of the 30-06 and the .458 Win Mag in turn, doubles that of the .375 H&H. I have fired a .375 H&H. It was bearable but not sure I'd want to double it unless I was built like Olive Oil and would sway like a willow switch upon recoil. I'm built more like a sandbag and I'd wind up taking it all I'm sure.

 

[trauma1]

Wow, thanks for all the great responses. Figured I would only get 2-3 chime ins. I intentionally left the 416 Rigby and 470 Nitro off the list due to the high price of components and reloading. The 405 Winchester, while a great cartridge, just does not offer enough over the 375 to justify it. Plus, it is really a classic lever cartridge - 1895 only! The 45-70 can be loaded CLOSE to the 458 but not quite, while the 458 can easily be loaded down to trapdoor levels, especially with some of the newer powders like TrailBoss. The 458 Lott would be nice though. Did they make one in that caliber? Availability of the gun is the other part of the equation. Seems like the ones I have found in 40+caliber are going for >$1000 used. If I could find one for substantially less ($700 range) then would be more enticing, especially if in 470 of 458 lott.

 

[TinkerDave]

There are several big bores which you could consider, but I would get one of the classics, either the 375 H & H Mag or the 416 Rigby. Nothing says "Dark Continent" like a British big bore cartridge. TD

 

[Stump Buster]

The 458 Lott would be nice though. Did they make one in that caliber? Availability of the gun is the other part of the equation. Seems like the ones I have found in 40+caliber are going for >$1000 used. If I could find one for substantially less ($700 range) then would be more enticing, especially if in 470 of 458 lott.

Yep...in stainless even! Mine's been to Africa twice for plains game loaded with 350gr Barnes TSX. It worked GREAT on Waterbuck, Nyala, Kudu, Zebra and Gemsbuck!!! I have a .416 Ruger Alaskan that I'd take next time to give it a work out on Dangerous game, but my Lott has earned its spot in my battery.

Here's a couple pics to motivate you to continue your search...

Stippling by my Buddy...Randy Fung of Fung Custom Grips and the Bead Blast and Safety modification by Jack Huntington!

Happy Hunting and good luck in your search!!!

 

[mike-c]

Greetings,

You could look on GUNBROKER. I saw several good #1's at a low price in 458.

Mike 8)

 

[usmcvet0331]

I'd have to recommend the .45-70 only because it sounds as though chances are slimmer for African hunting than domestic. The .45-70 is extremely versatile and will not only load way down to trapdoor plinker rounds, and all the way up to African DG rounds, but for plenty in between. They can use a fairly wide range of bullet weights and powders. As a cartridge, Cowboy action to African action, can't go wrong.

I agree 45-70

 

[oldguy]

trauma 1, My vote goes hands down to the 450-400 N.E. Bought one several years back ,it's crazy accurate and loads of fun to shoot. My personal opinion is it's about the maximum recoil level you would want in a #1 without having to ad weight to the gun. I don't think most people would enjoy the recoil level produced by the 458 win mag or 458 lott. with full power loads. I will admit a 45-70 may be more versatile and easier to load for but the 450-400 has a level of panache that's hard to beat.

 

[Buckeye Bill]

I vote for 405 No.1H.

LGS still has Hornady 300 grain 405 Win on their the ammunition isle.

 

[Corbi]

I would go with #3. Just because every one deserves a 45/70. :mrgreen:

The 1S is short light and has all the makings of a favorite rifle. You already have a 375HH. That should sufice if you go to Africa.

Corbi

 

[DC Plumber]

I bought a used .458 winmag out of shotgun news (I think it was) about 7 years ago for $500 shipped from a guy in Texas. It was well worn at the muzzle, wood shows a little age, bore looks good and it shoots great. With a 1/2" more case capacity than a 45-70, almost all loads are 20% faster than a 45-70. While it is 3/8" shorter than a .458 Lott, it looks to fall about 150fps slower than the Lott with same bullets.

I like the 45s over 416s due to bullet price and availability. Heck, I bought a box of 250 lead 405g slugs way back when for little money. Those and Rel 7 makes for a lot of fun at the range.

I have some 525g cast bullets that when loaded over a compressed charge of H4895 will really rattle your teeth. Not many takers at the club to shoot it twice.

 

[Buckeye Bill]

Regardless or caliber, if I ever find a No.1 for $500, I will buy it. 8)

 

[single action]

okay I have one of the 450-400 and it is not any worse then the 375 I have shot and it is a traditional cartridge that dates back to the cordite days of the last part of the 19 century. sa.

 

[Major T]

Ladobe, see if you can find a .45-70 S-C. It has a C weight 26" barrel. Most, if not all, came with Circassian walnut. Lipsey's ordered 125, sold out and ordered another batch. If interested, I bought mine through El Número Uno. Contact him through PM or E-mail.

Stump Buster, I am curious about your scope mounting. Understand way forward on a heavy, but can you see through it, or is it a scout mounted conventionally, but forward? Thanks, jack