Grammar or lack of ?

[Fox Mike]

The wife and I were watching Jeopardy and a question came up concerning grammar and the person failed to answer correctly. I asked Linda if they still taught how to 'diagram a sentence' in schools today. She said that that is no longer taught. Which brings me to my question. How many here were taught how to conjugate verbs and diagram a sentence in school?

Another question that came up between us was; when you went to school did they fail students, that is keep them in the same grade the next year, that couldn't successfully complete the years requirements; ie, read at a third grade level in third grade, etc?

 

[coach]

I was taught how to diagram a sentence back in the 60's in catholic school. They don't do it now of course and I can't really do it anymore either although some of the lessons have stuck. In my wife's school she's just glad if they can speak English.

 

[wizofwas]

Yes, I was taught how to diagram a sentence way back in grade school, I think. Although I couldn't do it now. And yes, if you flunked a grade, you were held back a year. But very, very few ever flunked.

 

[eveled]

I failed 11th grade English. I thought I could get high enough grades in class to skip the term paper that counted as 25% of my grade. I missed by 1 point, on the final exam. I needed, a 95 and got a 94.

So I had to go to summer school in order to advance to 12th grade.

11th grade summer school English was like taking 3rd grade English over again.

I passed, and was back in college level English class senior year.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Yeah, I was in school back when they tried to give us a pretty good basic education. Declension of nouns and pronouns, conjugation of verbs, parts of speech, sentence structure, all that stuff that allows one to communicate in a relatively intelligent manner were stressed. I found that diagramming sentences was a great aid to understanding all of these concepts. Consider which forms represent a concern for understanding . . .

"I be, you be, he/she/it be, we be, you be, they be"

Or . . .

"I am, you are, he/she/it is, we are, you are, they are"

One shudders to consider the vulgarization of all the verb tenses.

Of note was the fact that two years of Latin really brought home the importance and understanding of these concepts.

One of our local elementary schools is seriously considering dropping spelling from the curriculum based on the idea that "they'll pick it up on their own".

We are doomed.

 

[gramps]

I was taught diagraming of sentences, in grade school (parochial school). I actually did some a couple of weeks ago with my grandson. Yes, some did not pass to the next grade. Some were skipped up a grade. It was all sorted out in the end. All got a top notch education. What they chose to do with that education after High School, was less than stellar in some cases. :shock:
gramps

 

[Skidboot]

Yes, I learned how to diagram sentences, and to this day I am kind of a grammar snob. It was also possible to fail a grade and actually be held back a year. I also knew people who flunked out of college who were actually trying to succeed.

 

[Bob Wright]

Every teacher at Messick High School in Memphis was an English teacher, regardless of which subject she taught. History papers were graded on spelling,grammar and punctuation as if they were English papers.

And yes, if one didn't make the grade, they repeated it.

Bob Wright

 

[pete44ru]

.

In the 1950's, I was taught in parochial elementary school by Sister Mary Elephant, who got her lesson(s) across to recalcitrant students via repeatedly rapping a wooden ruler across the knuckles of the student's hand/hands (aka: corporal punishment). :mrgreen:

My school had a 14 year-old that was held back a year enough times to be in class with 11 year-old's :roll:

( at the time, state law mandated education until the age of 15, so the school had to keep him yet another year)


.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Consider which forms represent a concern for understanding . . .

Hi,

Yup, just between you and I (argghhh!!!) we be doomed!

"Amo, amas, amat"... betcha a fair number here can finish the last three in that sequence. Yeah, we thought Latin killed the Romans and it was gonna kill us, too. But it didn't, and I'm thankful today that saintly Mrs. Morris used up however many cases of chalk she did, endlessly diagramming sentences on the board, and that later Father D beat into our heads the value of paying attention those two years in his Latin class. In fact, today I'm glad he did...

I don't remember anyone flunking a grade: I went to private schools all but two years of a public high school (longest nap of my life!), and those who didn't cut it simply seemed to be gone the following Fall...

Someone once told me education was the best gift one could ever receive, and went on to say they can take everything else away from you except your education. I think they were right.

Rick C

 

[Jeepnik]

I sucked at English. Oh, I could write a sentence or paragraph correctly but didn't know why. When i finally got to college I figured i needed to start with dumbbell English.

My instructor was a wizard explaining things. She put it ina way that made sense. She told me I didn't need that class. But, I took it and learned quite a bit from her.

 

[Fox Mike]

.

In the 1950's, I was taught in parochial elementary school by Sister Mary Elephant, who got her lesson(s) across to recalcitrant students via repeatedly rapping a wooden ruler across the knuckles of the student's hand/hands (aka: corporal punishment). :mrgreen:

I have noticed that many of us were parochial school attendees. The photo above could easily have been my 7 grade SSND teacher. The school I went to, and I believe that "greygun" also attended there, gave you two options...learn or leave. They always had a waiting list of those that wanted to be educated there.

It is such a shame that the politicians want to be seen as knowing more about teaching than the teachers do, and mandating what and how subjects are taught.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Consider which forms represent a concern for understanding . . .

Hi,

Yup, just between you and I (argghhh!!!) we be doomed!

"Amo, amas, amat"... betcha a fair number here can finish the last three in that sequence. Rick C

. . . aramamus, amatis, amant.

And don't forget "Arma virum que cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris, etc."



Oops . . . Latin spelling.

 

[graygun]

yes,yes and yes

 

[Jeepnik]

Public school. But I when learning to print I picked the pencil up with my left hand. I was immediately whacked on the back of said hand with a yard stick. So today, with very poor penmanship, I write right handed.

I pretty much do everything else left handed, even though the USAF tried to convince me I should shoot right handed.

 

[powder smoke]

Yes another parochial school student here St. Edmonds! we learned like it or not! :lol:
Sister superior ruled with an iron fist, lol. A few stayed back a grade and a few skipped
a grade. Hand held bells and ruler to the back of your hand. And god forbid if you came
home with a note, dad would install the double whammy. But we learned not only book
learning we had manners and respect. ps

 

[exavid]

When I was in grammer school and high school we got the whole gamut. Arithmetic, English, American and World History, Civics, government, I took two years of Latin and one year of Spanish. Algebra, Plane and solid geometry, calculus, biology, chemistry.
Fail a grade and you repeated. Discipline was definitely exercised. In elementary school with a paddle.
Things do seem a lot more lax these days. No more history or civics, none of the kids I run into seem to have the slightest idea of how our government is supposed to work. No idea of American history at all. They can't spell and couldn't do any math whatsoever without a calculator. Viva la public unions!

 

[Fox Mike]

I wonder today just how many kids today have read Song Of Hiawatha, or The Highwayman by Alfred Noyes, or Poe's The Cask of Amontillado, or any poems or short stories of the kind we had to 'digest' when in school?
Remember "sum","es", "est","sumus", "estis", "sunt"?

 

[Jimbo357mag]

She said that that is no longer taught.

That ain't proper English, is it? ...uh oh, I think I made a mistake myself.

9th grade English, I hated it.

 

[Rook]

They don't fail a student these days. Instead they fail the whole class by dumbing down the curriculum so that no student is left behind.

 

[Fox Mike]

They don't fail a student these days. Instead they fail the whole class by dumbing down the curriculum so that no student is left behind.

Which is the reason my wife retired earlier than she had originally planned to. She was tired of not being able to be a "teacher". She spent more time teaching the required "tests" than the actual subjects.

She said that that is no longer taught.

That ain't proper English, is it? ...uh oh, I think I made a mistake myself.
9th grade English, I hated it.

Beats me! Guess I got overzealous with the "thats". :roll:

 

[Colonialgirl]

The wife and I were watching Jeopardy and a question came up concerning grammar and the person failed to answer correctly. I asked Linda if they still taught how to 'diagram a sentence' in schools today. She said that that is no longer taught. Which brings me to my question. How many here were taught how to conjugate verbs and diagram a sentence in school?

Another question that came up between us was; when you went to school did they fail students, that is keep them in the same grade the next year, that couldn't successfully complete the years requirements; ie, read at a third grade level in third grade, etc?

ALL of the ABOVE Fox Mike, but then I graduated High School in 1959 in Bartlesville Oklahoma and had attended schools usually on Navy bases until the 7th grade; Most were taught by qualified Navy wives that didn't put up with ANY BS and like my Mom, believed in Education.

 

[Colonialgirl]

Consider which forms represent a concern for understanding . . .

Hi,

Yup, just between you and I (argghhh!!!) we be doomed!

"Amo, amas, amat"... betcha a fair number here can finish the last three in that sequence. Rick C

. . . aramamus, amatis, amant.


And don't forget "Arma virum que cano, Troiae qui primus ab oris, etc."



Oops . . . Latin spelling.

Je ne parle pas le latin; Je ne parle d'une petite quantité de français.

Parle vous mademoiselle ??
Bonjour Madame comment allez vous?
Tres Bien Merci, Et vous?
Comme ci comme ça

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Behold, a Frog among us . . .

 

[SamV]

Believe it or not, my high school senior had to diagram sentences in grade school several years ago. Yes, it was a parochial school. But now he is taking Greek and is in his fourth year of Russian. I would say that all of my kids have received a great education. It demanded hard work.
I haven't tried to diagram sentences since my grade school years. I always enjoyed English classes and writing, but I really was not very good at grammar. I always kept a guide at hand while writing.
I still get confused with lie and lay..

 

[Rick Courtright]

I still get confused with lie and lay..

Hi,

From the interesting timing department: one of my neighbors and I were talking about bad grammar a couple of days ago, and it turns out this is one of her favorites! "To lay requires an object" is her way of remembering what someone meant when they told me "Chickens lay eggs!"

Rick C

 

[contender]

I too was raised in an era of actual schooling. And I too had to diagram a sentence. But I suck at a lot of it now,,, but I do still try a lot.
Failing a student,,, it happened, and I seem to recall one of my older siblings either flunking or having to go to summer school to be able to advance. I saw kids get held back on into HS.

But today's public education system is failing the country. They are doing our kids a disservice by NOT teaching them, and as such,,, these uneducated kids do grow up & will fail in the real world. And this country is falling behind many other countries in how educated the population is in general. Sadly all too true.
Luckily,,, my granddaughter is in a private school, and they actually do teach. My DIL's mother used to teach school, and she helps review what is being taught & expected of the kids. While my granddaughter has struggled a bit in some areas,, she is actually learning things. Maybe there is some hope for this countries future!!!!!!!

 

[wolfsong]

She said that that is no longer taught.

That ain't proper English, is it? ...uh oh, I think I made a mistake myself.

9th grade English, I hated it.

Actually, it is proper grammar.

 

[Jeepnik]

Remember folks, the primary purpose of language (written or oral) is to communicate an idea. No matter how you do it, as long as the idea is communicated you have succeeded. And the English we learned isn't the English the of today, nor will today's be tomorrow's.

 

[BlkHawk73]

I came through the schools later than most here ('91 graduate) but can say it was at least school and teaching then unlike now. We were taught from text books not computers and classrooms were full of props and items that brought the subjects alive a bit. For the most part, up until high school grades were in the A's and B's. Anything less wasn't acceptable. I think part of that came from having a father that was a teacher and principal. Even at home that teacher side came out in things. He retired early seeing the writing on the wall and the whole political aspect that was looming. (non child left behind joke) A friend entered teaching and quit after he saw the ugly politics involved. Lower the standards so kids test better, making the school appear better and thus have funds handed to them. Take those funds and make fancy and frilly or some new program rather than actually increase the knowledge base of the students.
Schools have become more of a day care center now than anything. Parents ship them off and just want something to show off, something visual they can Facebook about. Coddle them at home and they get coddled and sheltered at school (God forbid they learn about history)
At the time I wasn't crazy about some courses but all these years later, glad I took 'em. Biology, Chemistry Physics, Latin, Spanish, French, Calculus, Trigonometry, Logical thinking/deductive reasoning...