Government silliness

[Jeepnik]

I'm currently shopping for a mobility scooter for my wife. Something struck me as a perfect example of how stupid governmental regulations can be. Most of you may remember, and possibly like me rode the three wheeled ATV's They were fast, maneuverable and fun as all get out. But the government in their wisdom decided they were too "dangerous" because of their lack of inherent stability. So sadly one of the most enjoyable offroad vehicles has all but disappeared.

Flash forward and as I mentioned I'm looking a ECV for my wife. Many/most are three wheel designs. And yes, three wheels are inherently more unstable that four. So why is it the government allows three wheeled to be used by a segment of our society that is most likely to suffer serious injury is even a minor fall?

Now some will say they don't go that fast. But from experience with my mom some years ago, I learned that these three wheeled devices can't handle any kind of sidehill. And these things are generally used on cement sidewalks and asphalt streets. Neither of which is forgiving. Especially when you consider that an elderly person falling over sideways is not going to be able to do anything to mitigate the fall.

 

[s4s4u]

That is a good question. I don't have a good answer.

 

[Jeepnik]

Neither does anyone else connected with government regulation creation.

 

[bergmen]

We just bought my wife a lightweight electric wheelchair (Pride Mobility Jazzy Ultra Light). It only weighs 33# with battery removed, easy to lift into the back of the pickup if we don't want to fold it up (which is very easy). A brilliant design IMO (I'm a retired Mechanical Engineer):

 

[bergmen]

BTW, we specifically avoided the three wheel designs (single front wheel, two in rear) largely because of the inherent instability (plus they were all heavy).

Dan

 

[Jeepnik]

Weight is insignificant to me. Transportation will be in the bed of a pickup. Loading using ramps is very easy. I did that for a few years until I bought my hitch carrier rack.

Regarding the three wheeled ECV's, just for stuff and giggles I emailed my US Senator and ask him to look into why the CSPC allows three Wheeled ECV's for elderly, but not three Wheeled ATV's for healthy young adults. Anyone want to bet I never hear a word back?

 

[bergmen]

I can understand that. In our case, ramps were not a solution for us for a variety of reasons.

When Honda first introduced the little 3-wheel ATV, they had a solid rear axle making sudden direction changes very difficult. The dealer was two doors down from the auto shop where I was working at the time and the owner (Cycle Imports) brought one over for us to play with. I was a seasoned motorcyclist and I could hardly control it and eventually bumped into a parked pickup. Climbed off and vowed to never ride one again.

Dan

 

[Jeepnik]

Three wheels take an almost entirely different skill set from four. Not to mention two. But think about it. If the three wheeled vehicles are essentially band because of instability, why aren't two wheeled vehicles?

I always thought there was a lot more BS than truth in the CPSC's decision. It reminded me of Jeep's decision to do away with the CJ-5 after 60 Minutes did their hatchet job. That was spurred on when a 60 Minute staffer doing something stupid rolled his CJ-5 and was killed. Heck, you can roll a Maserati if you push it past it's limits. Those limits are just a lot faster.

 

[s4s4u]

Three wheels take an almost entirely different skill set from four. Not to mention two. But think about it. If the three wheeled vehicles are essentially band because of instability, why aren't two wheeled vehicles?

I always thought there was a lot more BS than truth in the CPSC's decision. It reminded me of Jeep's decision to do away with the CJ-5 after 60 Minutes did their hatchet job. That was spurred on when a 60 Minute staffer doing something stupid rolled his CJ-5 and was killed. Heck, you can roll a Maserati if you push it past it's limits. Those limits are just a lot faster.

You been riding a bicycle your entire childhood, now you want them banned?

The 3 wheeled vehicles, like 4 wheel vehicles, do not require balance to operate. So, you rely on the machine to keep you upright, which it will do until terrain or speed/braking put it in an unstable situation. Most accidents with 3 wheelers were due to cornering too quickly/sharply or braking while turning. An independent rear suspension would have helped a lot, but a solid axle was cheaper to manufacture.

We had a 3 wheeler back in the day and managed to survive

 

[Dan in MI]

My understanding was not inherent instability. (triangles are generally stable) but the rear wheels sick out. People would try to zip through tight spaces not realizing one side or the other would hit an object thereby tipping the trike over.

Your mobility scooter doesn’t have the speed to catch one wheel and turn you over on your side.

Sidehills are any issue with all mobility carts. Not enough width.

If 3 wheels alone was the issue how do the Spyder type bikes not flip all the time? (Wide front forces the driver to recognize required width to pass)

 

[s4s4u]

My understanding was not inherent instability. (triangles are generally stable) but the rear wheels sick out. People would try to zip through tight spaces not realizing one side or the other would hit an object thereby tipping the trike over.

Your mobility scooter doesn't have the speed to catch one wheel and turn you over on your side.

Sidehills are any issue with all mobility carts. Not enough width.

If 3 wheels alone was the issue how do the Spyder type bikes not flip all the time? (Wide front forces the driver to recognize required width to pass)

Those have a much wider footprint, and lower center of gravity. That provides more stability than a 3 wheeler.

The majority accidents with 3 wheelers were due to excessive speed while cornering and/or braking, not from hitting things with the rear tires. I had ours on two wheels many times, so am familiar with the geometry and potential hazards.

 

[Jeepnik]

Your mobility scooter doesn't have the speed to catch one wheel and turn you over on your side.

Maybe not yours. But at over twenty miles an hour mine sure will. Then again it ain't your grandma's mobility scooter. Life is too short to ride a slow scooter.

 

[blume357]

Just wait until Foxmike steps into this discussion.... you don't mess with his 'hoss' trigger!

 

[Sam Summey]

I'm currently shopping for a mobility scooter for my wife. Something struck me as a perfect example of how stupid governmental regulations can be. Most of you may remember, and possibly like me rode the three wheeled ATV's They were fast, maneuverable and fun as all get out. But the government in their wisdom decided they were too "dangerous" because of their lack of inherent stability. So sadly one of the most enjoyable offroad vehicles has all but disappeared.

Flash forward and as I mentioned I'm looking a ECV for my wife. Many/most are three wheel designs. And yes, three wheels are inherently more unstable that four. So why is it the government allows three wheeled to be used by a segment of our society that is most likely to suffer serious injury is even a minor fall?

Now some will say they don't go that fast. But from experience with my mom some years ago, I learned that these three wheeled devices can't handle any kind of sidehill. And these things are generally used on cement sidewalks and asphalt streets. Neither of which is forgiving. Especially when you consider that an elderly person falling over sideways is not going to be able to do anything to mitigate the fall.

I agree with Jeepnik, a number of years ago Amanda brought her dad to Tyrone's Eastern get together. He drove it onto unstable ground and turned over. It happened in a heart beat, I got to him first he was unhurt, we untangled him from the vehicle, up righted it a got him situated back on the conveyance. He was back visiting with friends but avoided that section of the parking lot.