For The Civil War Buffs

[stevemb]

Much has been made of the shooting ability of the Southern good ole boys. Much has been made of the north having the advantage of/in industry. A further thought. The incoming immigrants and already solidly entrenched immigrant communities. For the north, I'll not deny we had the industry and resources advantage. How about addressing the ethnic variable ? We did a good job of enlisting the incoming Irish, also some of the units enlisted in the upper midwest were heavily weighted with Nordic men. Some of the norths best fighting units were comprised of these two sources. Your thoughts ? Play nice please !

 

[trebor44]

Several years ago when visiting Edinburgh Scotland, I happened upon an old well populated graveyard that was in sight of the Castle. In this place of final rest, I came across many headstones that noted the occupants as having been members of the CSA and it many regiments and were of all ranks. I think you will find that Scotland was well represented in the CSA.

 

[stevemb]

Yes, scattered down thru the mtn states, as to this date. Most would have gone to war in gray or grey.That you saw headstones in Scotland for them, of the officer class I'd say.

 

[Don Lovel]

I always wondered, how did the Southern snipers first get their hands on paper cartridge Sharps rifles? Until then their use of English Enfields probably would have been the most accurate long range guns of the day

 

[trebor44]

The vast majority of the headstones indicated enlisted personnel with a few officers. Scotland has a long history of 'exporting' cannon fodder since living conditions under English rule was grim and starvation was common amongst the poor. We have the Scots to thank for keeping most of the English army stationed in Scotland to keep the locals in check after the "rebellion of 1745". And don't forget about the 'clearances' when people were replaced with sheep. That is still a sore spot with a lot of highlanders. 8)

 

[stevemb]

Thank you Trebor44, I'd not have thought that. The families kept in touch, the bond strong I guess.

 

[trebor44]

Here is one of many interesting links on the subject:

http://www.scotland.com/forums/history/6753-confederate-flag-scotland.html

One can spend a lot of time on this subject. 8)

 

[stevemb]

Hmnn...the "cannon fodder"/"wild geese' more an Irish thing, Trebor44, you've surprised me. Did know the Scots have a heavy presence down thru Appalachia, W.Va down thru Georgia. What other ethnic groups fell to either side, and there noted ?

 

[Critch]

In many battles, esp. Fredericksburg, these immigrant units faced their own kin across the battlefield. The Irish Brigade of New York was almost destroyed in a charge against a fortified position held by Irish immigrants fighting for the South. While it's true that the South, at least initially may have had more people familiar with guns etc, I think the Union units from Minnesota, Iowa, Michigan and other western states were truly great units.

An immigrant unit here in Missouri, Germans under General Franz Sigel, were responsible for a remarkable number of atrocities resulting in thousands of Missourians fighting for the South, when they would just as soon been left alone. Lincoln told General Fremont that Sigel recruited more rebels than Robert E. Lee. Sigel's unit was moved to Virginia where they got soundly beat by VMI Cadets at the Battle of New Market.

 

[stevemb]

Critch, when I've the time, will google. Thanks, this is what I was talking about. Thanks.

 

[toysoldier]

As noted above, Irish units fought on both sides. The Germans were heavily Union. Germans in St. Louis attacked southern businesses in a prequel of Krystalnacht in Berlin about 70 years later.

 

[Mike J]

I always wondered, how did the Southern snipers first get their hands on paper cartridge Sharps rifles? Until then their use of English Enfields probably would have been the most accurate long range guns of the day

I don't know how or when they got any Sharps rifles. I remember reading a very interesting article in American Rifleman a few years ago about their use of the Whitworth rifle. It is very impressive that they were making shots out to and beyond 800 yards in the 1860's. http://www.americancivilwarstory.com/whitworth-rifle.html

 

[6gun]

Much has been made of the shooting ability of the Southern good ole boys. Much has been made of the north having the advantage of/in industry. A further thought. The incoming immigrants and already solidly entrenched immigrant communities. For the north, I'll not deny we had the industry and resources advantage. How about addressing the ethnic variable ? We did a good job of enlisting the incoming Irish, also some of the units enlisted in the upper midwest were heavily weighted with Nordic men. Some of the norths best fighting units were comprised of these two sources. Your thoughts ? Play nice please !

Keep in mind the north may of had industries and the resources to produce better and more modern arms than the south, but many of those arms were captured after battles and used against the north, like in the Indian wars, most of the Winchesters Indians possessed and used in battles were captured arms from the white man.

Look at what's going on in the middle east here in modern times with ISIS a army equipped solely of captured arms and weapons.

 

[Number9]

How about the Cherokee!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_in_the_American_Civil_War

 

[6gun]

How about the Cherokee!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_in_the_American_Civil_War

That's good read, I never heard about blue bellies getting scalped during the civil war, to bad we didn't have more Confederate Cherokees. :lol:

 

[Number9]

How about the Cherokee!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_in_the_American_Civil_War

That's good read, I never heard about blue bellies getting scalped during the civil war, to bad we didn't have more Confederate Cherokees. :lol:

Humm? Guess they remembered the Trail of Tears!?

 

[eveled]

What amazes me about the civil war, is that as of last year we are still paying one civil war pension to a daughter of a civil war veteran. We are also still paying over 4,000 WW1 pensions.

 

[Number9]

Cherokee Declaration of Causes (October 28, 1861)

http://www.cherokee.org/AboutTheNat...rokeeDeclarationofCauses(October28,1861).aspx

 

[Mike J]

Thanks for posting that Number 9. I found it interesting. There is a fair amount of Cherokee on both my mothers & fathers sides of the family.

FWIW I don't know about the ethnic composition of the Union or Confederate forces but I do know there was a cousin on my Grandmothers side of the family that died during the Battle of Atlanta fighting for the Confederacy. There is a memorial to him on Memorial Drive (of course most don't realize why the road is called this). Her Fathers family was of English ancestry to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Cooperhawk]

My Great Grandfather Joeseph MacMonagle served in the 1st Minnesota. We decorate his grave each Memorial Day.

 

[6gun]

My great grand father was in the 1st North Carolina Cavalry Regiment.

 

[stevemb]

This is EXACTLY what I'd hoped for, with this thread. Quite happy here, right now. Funny, Sis has traced Mom's Mom's side back to somebody that served in the Revolution, but We don't know about the Civil War and our family, odd. When I've read the books that I have read of the Civil War, what strikes me the most, now, from my POV, is that all of the KIA,WIA,MIa, were Americans ! The numbers sadden me terribly.

 

[Cape Cod Terry]

If you ever visit the town of Oak Bluffs on Martha's Vineyard their is a Civil War Memorial just like you find in most Northern towns. The strange part of the story is it was erected by a former Confederate soldier. He settled on the Vineyard after the war and in time became a prosperous businessman. He wanted to be able to march in Veterans parades and join veterans groups but there was still a lot of hard feelings against former Confederates. He offered to pay for the monument if it was dedicated to veterans of both sides of the war. He swore that he had personally opposed slavery, and was glad that the union had been preserved. This was accepted and the monument honors all Civil War veterans and he was allowed to march in parades with the Union veterans. Maybe there is a lesson there for all of us.
Cape Cod Terry

 

[Mike J]

If you ever look at a Civil War monument in the South (and there are plenty of them around usually at the county courthouse or close to it) you will notice that they always face South & have their backs to the North.

 

[6gun]

If you ever look at a Civil War monument in the South (and there are plenty of them around usually at the county courthouse or close to it) you will notice that they always face South & have their backs to the North.

That's very interesting I have never been back east to see any of the monuments, to bad Statues aint dropping trou to the north. :lol:

 

[Number9]

If you ever look at a Civil War monument in the South (and there are plenty of them around usually at the county courthouse or close to it) you will notice that they always face South & have their backs to the North.

We have one Confederate monument on the north end of town where the soldier is facing North..
his job is to watch and make sure them Yanks don't sneak up on us! :mrgreen:

 

[trebor44]

While this may be a bit off topic, it is interesting to note the origins of settlement in the Appalachian region and in many parts of the west. This details some of the effects of the 'Clearances'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highland_Clearances

Many Scots feel the American Indians got a 'better deal' than the clansmen who were forced off their lands. My relatives like to visit America but prefer to live in Scotland.