First round flyer

[4kdave]

I have two ruger 10 rd. mags and a Butler Creek 25 rd. mag and the first time I used them to sight in my 10/22 with new scope the first round never hits the paper

 

[ranger1]

My first question would be at what distance were you shooting?

Secondly, did the first round from "each magazine" fail to hit your target?

What about the subsequent rounds?

Did you bore sight the rifle after mounting the scope and prior to firing the first round?

What brand of ammo were you using?

 

[4kdave]

I started at 25' and after 5 shots 4 were on the target I adjusted the scope and moved back to 100' and again only 4 shots on target. Using CCI Stinger ammo. Need to kill some Prarie Dogs on the place and the first shot has to be good-naturally

 

[Snake45]

My 77/22V always throws the first round of the day wild by up to 1" in any direction at 50 yards. Not a clean barrel issue as I haven't cleaned it in over 1500 rounds (and it shoots very consistently otherwise). Isn't a heating issue because I've let the rifle cool down after shooting it for over an hour and the first round in the next group is always spot-on. It's only the first round of the day.

I've come to the conclusion that the rifle gets carsick on the drive to the club, and just has to puke the first round and get it out of its system. :lol:

 

[Bullseye57]

This is a fairly common problem in 10/22's when loading the first round off of the magazine with an open bolt. The successive rounds fired from the magazine will cycle the bolt fully and therefore seat the rounds in the chamber differently. This round seating situation can cause impact variations on the target. Try loading your magazine on a closed bolt and then cycling the bolt by moving it all the way rearward and releasing the bolt handle but all in one motion - like shooting a slingshot.

R,
Bullseye

 

[4kdave]

Thanks Bullseye57--That makes a lot of sense--will try it the next time I get it out
Dave

 

[Snake45]

This is a fairly common problem in 10/22's when loading the first round off of the magazine with an open bolt. The successive rounds fired from the magazine will cycle the bolt fully and therefore seat the rounds in the chamber differently. This round seating situation can cause impact variations on the target.

First time I've ever heard of it in 10/22s, though I've often heard of it as regards centerfire autopistols, commonly called the 4+1 syndrome. Lots of writers have talked about it (in CF autopistols), but not one to my knowledge has ever actually documented it.

What happens is that the writer will shoot a 5-shot group, producing four tight holes and a flyer, and assume that the first shot was the flyer. Don't think I've ever read one actually come out and say that he knew for a fact that it was always the first shot that was the flyer, though.

I tried to document this myself a few years ago with three of my 1911s. Oh I shot some 4+1 groups, all right, but I carefully logged each shot and the first shot was no more likely to be the flyer than any other shot of the five.

I remain unconvinced. Frankly, I don't believe the gun knows or cares if the bolt (or slide) slams home from locked-open or from being driven rearward by the previous shot. The round either fully chambers or it doesn't. It doesn't care how the bolt got to the rear.

The suggested test (above) won't hurt anything or cost much to try, and could be interesting in result. Let us know.

 

[Bullseye57]

With all due respect; just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't so. Take a read at this thread over at GunTalk-Online http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3069 Other's with 10/22's have mentioned it too, this is just the quickest example I could post.

R,
Bullseye

 

[Snake45]

With all due respect; just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't so. Take a read at this thread over at GunTalk-Online http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3069 Other's with 10/22's have mentioned it too, this is just the quickest example I could post.

R,
Bullseye

I said I'd never heard of it and I've been reading about 10/22s at Rimfirecentral.com for the better part of a decade now. Never heard anyone there complain about that at all, not once.

The thread you linked to above turned out to be mainly about flyers after switching ammo types, a well-known phenomenon that I've often seen myself (though less often than some people might have you believe, when I tested for it).

 

[Bullseye57]

Perhaps you didn't read that thread very thoroughly. The OP there also determined that loading with an open bolt was indeed the source of his first shot fliers, as he describes in this posting- http://www.guntalk-online.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=29159#29159

In his last report, after returning from the testing range, he states -

When you are using good/known ammo and a good/known barrel and you keep operating conditions the same, you know which off targets are you know very well which ones are operator inflicted. My flier problem is gone now that I have made the gun conditions the same for the first shot as for the next 9. The bolt position in this case was the problem, have not had a first shot flier since I changed my ways.

I'll be anxious to hear if the original poster to this thread finds this loading condition to be the source of his first shot fliers also.

R,
Bullseye

 

[Snake45]

I'll be anxious to hear if the original poster to this thread finds this loading condition to be the source of his first shot fliers also.

R,
Bullseye

Me too, but I doubt it.

 

[Mobuck]

I have a hunting buddy that calls those "YIPS". You Idiot Pulled Shot
Not saying that's the problem here but I always found it funny.

 

[blume357]

Oddly enough I have a mini-14 that the first shot is like that and then the rest are pretty consistent... then I have a mini-30 that the first shot is dead on and the next ones start wandering....

go figure.... then when I shot my AR the other day the first 5 or 6 rounds were all over the place and once the barrel heated up they were pretty much dead on....

after years of shooting... I'm still confused.

 

[mastermonster]

My stepson is a swat sniper. I learned from him about cold bore flyers. I'd never heard of it until he recieved his training. Snipers will factor in and allow for 1st shot 'cold bore' factor. But at 25 to 50 yds. I wouldn't think it would be enough to be off the paper; probably hardly noticable. And I believe the poster also said he let the gun cool after the 1st flyer and it hit point of aim. So, I'd be inclined to think it is more likely how the bolt is dropped for that first round as mentioned before. At the range I usually insert a loaded clip with the bolt down and pull back the bolt and 'drop' it on the first round. From a bipod rest and scoped it will put the whole clip in a sub-dime sized hole at 25 yds., clip after clip (I've got 5).

 

[4kdave]

Just thought I would let everyone know that "snapping" the first round from the clip cured the flyer. Thanks for all the great help. This forum is a GREAT place to learn a lot!!!!!!
Dave

 

[Rick Courtright]

I have a hunting buddy that calls those "YIPS". You Idiot Pulled Shot

Hi,

Know that one well!

I have a very nice flinch, perfected over a couple hundred thousand clay targets. Combine that w/ a "slap the trigger" habit that works w/ shotguns but kills rifle accuracy, and I figure my first shot will usually be "in the county," but not much better...

Then I settle down.

Sometimes.

Rick C

 

[kelbro]

Interesting info.

How were you releasing the bolt before? With the bolt release in front of the triggerguard?

I pull my bolt back, release it, and it slams home. I can't see where there would be any difference between this method and the closed bolt method.

I never noticed any issues with first-round flyers but I may have to try it now that it's been pointed out.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Bullseye57]

Just thought I would let everyone know that "snapping" the first round from the clip cured the flyer. Thanks for all the great help. This forum is a GREAT place to learn a lot!!!!!!
Dave

Good to hear that you have the flier issue solved, now it's time to bust some pdogs.

R,
Bullseye