EV Fire Engine...Hummmm...

[redhawker]

Just saw a post touting the St. Paul, MN Fire Department getting their first EV fire engine. Commenters to the thread where gushing about how wonderful this was. One poster said, "Most are running easily an hour on the charge to get a knock down until the other trucks can arrive. This truck then can be freed up for other initial attacks or medicals. They are faster on the initial response. In Charlotte's scenario, the engine is in a green station so it is saving taxpayers funds. Not the best for everyone, but that have proven their place in some." (Not sure what Charlotte he's referring to. Maybe Charlotte, NC has one?). Anyway, I responded to this by quoting him saying, "...They are faster on the initial response..." and my response was, "Beg to differ. You can only drive a large fire engine so fast SAFELY, especially in winter. A diesel fire engine can travel as fast as it is safe to do so, so I fail to see how their initial response is faster. Unless you are advocating that these electric fire engines be driven at unsafe speeds, endangering the public." Then I address his other claim of saving taxpayers' funds. I responded to that saying,
"So, how much do they save, considering this likely costs twice as much as a similar diesel unit? Question - How much do electric fire engines cost vs a standard diesel fire engine? "Google AI Overview -
Electric fire engines cost approximately $1.8 million to $2.1 million, while standard diesel models cost around $900,000 to $1.4 million." It takes a lot of fuel savings to make up $700,000+. Diesel is at $4.46 a gallon in St. Paul. $700,000 / $4.46 = 156,951 gallons of diesel. And, how long will it take to make up that difference in cost by the fuel savings? Question - How much diesel does the average fire engine use a year? "Google AI Overview - An average fire engine likely uses between 2,000 to 4,000 gallons of diesel fuel per year." Okay, average that to 3,000. 156,951 gallons / 3,000 = 52.32 years. WOW! I'm underwhelmed. Doesn't anybody in government ever do the math?" I didn't even look, but just by this, I'm going to bet St. Paul is run by democrats.

 

[Yaworski]

As someone said in another thread, "things are changing, adapt or get left behind."

 

[Jeepnik]

LAFD has had a sort of hybrid since 2022. It's electric, but has a diesel engine for extended range and operating time. Last I heard they hadn't made a single run to a decent fire without using the diesel.

 

[Mobuck]

Can it put itself out if it catches fire???

 

[blume357]

Hybrid is the way to go until we get a better electrical grid and also build a better source to charge all these batteries. I'd love to have a hybrid work vehicle... 10mpg is what my and most work vans get contrary to what the auto makers claim.

 

[redhawker]

LAFD has had a sort of hybrid since 2022. It's electric, but has a diesel engine for extended range and operating time. Last I heard they hadn't made a single run to a decent fire without using the diesel.

Yup, in LA, they hae to contend with brush fires as well, and sometimes fire engines are out on the fire for days at a time. With conventional diesels, they just bring in a fuel truck. A hybrid approach might work for this, but I'm having doubts until I see it for myself. There is likely a good reason why that unit hasn't been out on a decent fire.

 

[Captain America]

BEV’s days in the US are numbered, hybrid will work fine if it’s cost effective. Europe will be interesting to watch as they’ve pushed their timeline for 80% EV adoption back to 2035 from 2030, the goal for 2025 was 22% but it’s currently stalled at 15.6%…California will be a disaster.

 

[flyer898]

How long can the electric "engine" continue pumping water before the battery is exhausted? I was an engineer in a volunteer department and in my experience the time on the engine pumping water to extinguish a fire is much more than the time traveling to the fire and returning to the station.

 

[redhawker]

How long can the electric "engine" continue pumping water before the battery is exhausted? I was an engineer in a volunteer department and in my experience the time on the engine pumping water to extinguish a fire is much more than the time traveling to the fire and returning to the station.

That's kind of one of my main points. At a large industrial fire, I'm not sure they'd have enough battery power to pump water as long as they'd need to. Even if they could pump as long as a diesel fire engine, the problem is that when the battery runs down, they'd have to pull it off the fire and take it back to the station or somewhere with a compatible charger to charge it. And, I'm sure their batteries are much larger than an EV car's battery, so it would take longer to charge. If a diesel fire engine is running low on diesel, they can just pull a fuel truck up next to it and fuel it while it continues to pump water. Also, as the battery runs down, would it be able to pump as much water as when it's fully charged, while a diesel fire engine will be able to pump at full capacity right up until it sucks the fuel tank dry.

 

[Watertender]

I've seen an electric fire engine that was towing a diesel generator. The diesel was bellowing like a hungry 2 year old with a full diaper. All an electric fire engine can do is have more problems with less efficiency than a 100% diesel unit.

 

[Jeepnik]

WT, maybe they should go back to steam driven fire engines. Then maybe we could get a job on the FD. Great pay and benefits.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

As someone who once managed lithium battery production, I wouldn't want them anywhere near high heat. I hope they are using different batteries in those things.

 

[blume357]

I know there is a difference but you know... I've heard a rumor that you can make diesel fuel burn too.

 

[flyer898]

Like the young woman with a round belly, I am probably taking seriously something that was poked in fun.
Back in the day, I never parked the engine close enough to the fire to feel the heat; that is why I had a pump and lots of hose.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Doesn't anybody in government ever do the math?"

Nope, they count on AI to do it for them.

 

[eveled]

There is a town near me. The fire department motto is “Guaranteed to save the cellar hole”.

Their fire station caught on fire, they had to push the engine out of the station because it wouldn’t start.

 

[Jeepnik]

Stuff happens. We lost a crash truck at Torrejon AFB when an English challenged Spanish driver drove into a massive JP4 spill.

 

[Johnnu2]

I read somewhere this morning that JEEP just issued a recall on some kind of electric and/or hybrid model(s); they suggested parking them away from inhabited buildings... etc etc
J.

 

[Yaworski]

At one time cars were slow, short ranged, and uncomfortable. Now my cars will do 140mph, travel 600 miles on a tank of gas (highway), and the seats are nicer than my La-Z-Boy. Early adopters always get the short end of the stick.