Error in Echo chainsaw manual

[caryc]

I have an Echo Timberwolf chain saw that I purchased about 3 years ago. I purchased it because I had a beautiful 70+ foot China Berry tree that was split in half during a bad windstorm.

I used the Echo saw for probably no more than three hours taking care of that tree. That's all the run time it's had on it. I went to use it a couple days ago and it would not start. I had a hard time trying to start it when I first bought it also. I even went to Home Depot and purchased a new can of Red Armor pre mixed fuel for it yesterday and still could not get it started.

I finally took it to an Echo authorized service center and the guy there go it started. I found out what I was doing wrong. In the manual that came with the saw under the starting instructions, the first step it said to push the chain brake lever forward. Then it had a few other steps and at the end it said, "as soon as it starts, pull the chain brake lever back".

So I was trying to start it with the chain brake on. That was the instruction in the manual so I figured they knew what they were talking about. I was following exactly each starting step in the manual. When I got back from the service center, I checked the manual again just to see if I was wrong. I was not wrong, they got the part about the chain brake exactly backwards.

I let it sit for three hours and I went out to start it again and it started just fine.

You would think they would get the instructions in the manual right. I have a little Worx battery powered 10" chain saw so I hardly ever have to break out the Echo. I love that little Worx chainsaw.

 

[Mike J]

Now I need to go look at the manual for my chainsaw. I have an Echo with a 20" bar I bought a few years ago to replace an old Poulan that had had it. I do remember reading the starting instructions but I don't remember anything about the chain brake. I think I was just trying to make sure I got the mix ratio right.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

Yep my old "lightweight" McCullough saw won't start with the brake on, either. I put "lightweight" in quotes because that's how they advertised them back in the day. That saw is 30 years old and has never been in the shop. It will start in 5 pulls or less anytime I need it. And it has cut some wood. Heated with wood for the first 8 years after I bought it. It's not light, bit it's dead-nuts reliable. And it doesn't have a piece of plastic on it anywhere.

 

[Mobuck]

Ah Ha, now I see the advantages of NOT reading the manual. That said, I've never tried starting a saw with the chain brake on nor do I understand the need to engage the chain brake after starting.
I'm used to choke on, fast idle locked on, pump the bulb a few times(if it has one) and give it a long steady pull(not a yank, all that does is stress the dogs in the pull starter). Newer ECHO saws are bit different when it comes to the starting sequence and use of the choke knob. My ECHO 400 has the "wind up the spring" assisted starting which is pretty handy for a geezer with a bum shoulder. This is totally opposite of one of my older 4600's that has so much compression that you've got to be fully committed before attempting to pull that rope. You don't even TRY to crank that puppy w/o having your foot in the handgrip to hold it down.

 

[WAYNO]

All of my modern saws start easily with the brake on, as per the manual, choked and no throttle. I let them idle with the brake on til it dies. Then I disengage the brake, and restart it using the throttle and NO choke.

Every machine is different, and they all have their own quirks.

 

[coach]

I have an 20 year old echo saw and on occasion if I flood it, letting it set for a while or cranking with the choke not engaged will clear it. All in all a good saw that starts easily. I checked the manual and saw nothing about engaging the chain brake to start. It never occurred to me to put it on to start. I suspect lawyers got involved with writing the manual.

 

[blume357]

I suspect it has to do with lawyers.... if you start a chain saw with the brake off and it gets enough gas the chain will turn and if you have the saw sitting on your or someone else's lap or have your hands on the chain... or are sitting in the bath tube with the bar pointed towards you.... well I think y'all see where I'm going with this .... I've actually never figure out what the brake on a chain saw was for....

 

[Mobuck]

I fully understand the reasoning and need for the chain brake. I assisted with 2 incidents in which users were hit by chainsaw "kickback". One was more serious and sent the guy to the hospital while the other proved the worth of chain saw safety chaps.
As far as having the chain brake engaged during startup, that's a CYA policy.

 

[Dave P.]

I suspect it has to do with lawyers.... if you start a chain saw with the brake off and it gets enough gas the chain will turn and if you have the saw sitting on your or someone else's lap or have your hands on the chain... or are sitting in the bath tube with the bar pointed towards you.... well I think y'all see where I'm going with this .... I've actually never figure out what the brake on a chain saw was for....

Theoretically when the tip of the guide bar with the chain turning hit an obstruction and the saw
"kicks" back or more likely rotates around your forward hand grip the idea is your hand or wrist
will contact the brake and stop the chain before it cuts a nice trench in your face.
Sometimes if you're tired and stumbling around in brush as you cut limbs off a fallen tree and
find yourself tripping you might have time to slap the brake.
Dave

 

[protoolman]

I thought the chain brake on all saws was also a kill switch. Local saw repair guy said he gets several no start saws a year where he just hits that kickback brake and they start right up.

 

[Dave P.]

I thought the chain brake on all saws was also a kill switch. Local saw repair guy said he gets several no start saws a year where he just hits that kickback brake and they start right up.

I've not seen any that are electrically tied to the ignition. They apply a brake band to the
clutch drum and will allow a saw to start and idle as long as the centrifugal clutch doesn't
engage.
That said, I never try to start a saw with the brake on.
Dave

 

[Watchman]

I thought the chain brake on all saws was also a kill switch. Local saw repair guy said he gets several no start saws a year where he just hits that kickback brake and they start right up.

I've not seen any that are electrically tied to the ignition. They apply a brake band to the
clutch drum and will allow a saw to start and idle as long as the centrifugal clutch doesn't
engage.
That said, I never try to start a saw with the brake on.
Dave

^^This.^^

Although, It wouldn't surprise me to find out that some newer saws might have a kill switch integrated into the chain brake.
None of mine are so equipped, and they all start whether the brake is on or not.

 

[Mobuck]

"I've not seen any that are electrically tied to the ignition. "
Nor have I but our newest saw is 3-4 years old. The other alternative is we use "commercial" or "pro-grade" saws rather than "homeowner" type saws which would be more likely to have a kill switch incorporated into the chain brake actuator although a kill switch on the chain brake would negate starting with the brake engaged.
I've seen Son try to start his saws with the brake engaged inadvertently--didn't seem to work very well.

 

[WAYNO]

I've never seen a chain brake with an integrated kill function.

I also agree, the new suggested way to start a saw with the brake engaged is a CYA for lawyers.

As far as safety goes, I only use the chain brake for the initial cold start, as that's the time I'm doing the most fiddling with primers, chokes, fueling and oiling, and having the most resistance from the starting rope. Leaving the bar cover on while I'm doing all this, as well as the brake engaged...it's just what I do. My saws start quite easy, so leaving the brake engaged does not affect the startability at all. Once it has started on choke, and allowed to die, is when the I remove the bar cover, disengage the brake, apply half-choke and restart so I can feather the throttle to facilitate warmup. As soon as I touch the throttle, the choke completely disengages.

 

[fiasconva]

Here is something I learned years ago from a tree service guy. He had a couple of newer workers that were always having trouble flooding out their saws trying to start them. He told them to just put it on full choke and pull the rope until it burps. Then put it on half choke and pull the rope. It works a lot better and just about every time for me. I can't remember the last time I flooded my Stihl. As soon as it warms up a little take it off choke and you're good to go.

 

[blume357]

that's the way I've been starting any 2 cycle engine for years now....

As for the brake... I understand it is a safety feature but since I have my left hand tight to the cross piece just behind the brake and am not going to let it go for anything... how am I going to hit the brake? You have to let go of the cross bar to engage the brake which from a safety standpoint seems dangerous....

Oh, maybe in the morning I'll post what an old guy taught me about loaning out your chainsaw.... it's just a little off color and not politically correct.

 

[caryc]

that's the way I've been starting any 2 cycle engine for years now....

As for the brake... I understand it is a safety feature but since I have my left hand tight to the cross piece just behind the brake and am not going to let it go for anything... how am I going to hit the brake? You have to let go of the cross bar to engage the brake which from a safety standpoint seems dangerous....

Oh, maybe in the morning I'll post what an old guy taught me about loaning out your chainsaw.... it's just a little off color and not politically correct.

You don't seem to understand what the brake is for. It's not there for you to let go of the handle and push the brake forward. It's there in case you get a kick back from the saw. The saw blade will come up and the brake lever will press itself against your hand or wrist and stop the blade.

Many people have been hurt because of chainsaw kickbacks. That's why they installed the brakes on them. Look in your chainsaws manual. It should explain about kickback and the chainsaw brake.

 

[caryc]

I've never seen a chain brake with an integrated kill function.

I also agree, the new suggested way to start a saw with the brake engaged is a CYA for lawyers.

As far as safety goes, I only use the chain brake for the initial cold start, as that's the time I'm doing the most fiddling with primers, chokes, fueling and oiling, and having the most resistance from the starting rope. Leaving the bar cover on while I'm doing all this, as well as the brake engaged...it's just what I do. My saws start quite easy, so leaving the brake engaged does not affect the startability at all. Once it has started on choke, and allowed to die, is when the I remove the bar cover, disengage the brake, apply half-choke and restart so I can feather the throttle to facilitate warmup. As soon as I touch the throttle, the choke completely disengages.

There is no half choke on this saw. It's either in or out.

 

[powder smoke]

I have no patients for a hard starting saw. When I'm done with my saw I empty the tank
than restart it it runs for 30 seconds or so, then i put it away. Next time I use it I put in
Fresh fuel and away I go! Got line trimmers and other powered tools fresh fuel solves the vast
majority of problems. Gas sitting in the tanks for months is not good.
Especially with today's fuel it not what it use to be. ps

 

[caryc]

So the saga continues. When out this morning and set the saw in the sun to warm up for two hours. Then went out to start per instructions. No start...not even a pop. Must have done about 10 pulls.

Then I thought about what Russ said in one of his posts. I took a hypodermic syringe and sucked a little fuel into it. Very little fuel, maybe an eight inch of fuel in the syringe barrel. I took the air cleaner off and squirted this right into the carb. I put the air cleaner back in place choked it an gave it one pull and it popped. Pushed choke in and gave two more pulls and it started. Since there is no way to prime this saw, I guess I'll have to do that on every cold start. What a bummer. If we ever get that $1400 that they say is coming to us, I think I'll just buy a new saw. I don't understand why this thing is not picking up any fuel when pulling the starter cord. Manually priming it kind of proved that.

Preferably one with a primer bulb on it and a compression release. This Echo has a compression release but no primer bulb.

Any suggestions?

 

[Mike J]

I have no patients for a hard starting saw. When I'm done with my saw I empty the tank
than restart it it runs for 30 seconds or so, then i put it away. Next time I use it I put in
Fresh fuel and away I go! Got line trimmers and other powered tools fresh fuel solves the vast
majority of problems. Gas sitting in the tanks for months is not good.
Especially with today's fuel it not what it use to be. ps

The ethanol they put in gasoline today messes up carburetors. Your method of clearing the carb makes good sense. I am somewhat lazy so I've been paying extra to get non ethanol gas the past few years. It seems to have cured my woes.

 

[footboard]

Every chainsaw I have owned, the instruction want the chain brake on when starting, it is a safety device to protect the unskilled or careless user. The two I have now start just fine with bake on or off, however in a careless moment I did nick my leg while starting one. My Echo 400 instruction says to pump the primer bulb for a cold start. That will flood it every time, I just choke it.

 

[caryc]

Every chainsaw I have owned, the instruction want the chain brake on when starting, it is a safety device to protect the unskilled or careless user. The two I have now start just fine with bake on or off, however in a careless moment I did nick my leg while starting one. My Echo 400 instruction says to pump the primer bulb for a cold start. That will flood it every time, I just choke it.

My Echo CS590 has no primer bulb. By me squirting a shot of fuel directly into the carb, that was not clearing the carb, it was priming the carb.

I have only ever used Red Armor pre-mixed fuel in that saw. Red Armor has no ethonol in it. And as I said it was a fresh can of fuel purchased that same day.

 

[coach]

My echo to start: set the choke, lock the throttle full open, pull the starter until it makes a slight noise like it wants to start, push in choke, leaving the throttle locked open, then pull a few times. Mine usually starts right up. Then nurse the throttle until it warms up. Very similar to what fiasconva does to start his.

 

[Watchman]

I have two Echos in my saw arsenal. One is an old pruner saw, CS3000. The other is a pole saw, about 8 years old, I forget which model number.

Both have a priming bulb, neither has a compression release. Both have chokes that can be full on, full off, or partially on depending on where you position the lever.

To start either, I push the bulb three or four times, set the choke to full on, and then pull the cord until it pops, usually two or three pulls. Then, I set the choke to full off, and pull again, usually one or two pulls and it starts. I wait for a few seconds before trying to throttle up, and rev it gently.

I only use straight gasoline mixed with premium Stihl two stroke oil. Never gasoline with ethanol mixed in.
I also use the technique Powder Smoke described if the saw will not be used in the next month or so. It prevents the gasoline from evaporating and leaving the oil to clog the fuel lines, or having the gas evaporate and leave a hard varnish in the carb that will wear a hole in the diaphragm.

I do not use the throttle at all during this process, until the saw is running and starting to warm up.

There's no need to buy chainsaw gas. It's a ripoff. non ethanol gas and quality two stroke oil is much cheaper.

My old tree saw is easily 20 years old, and the pole saw is easily 8 years old. Both still run great. Echo makes a good saw.
I hope these tips help.

 

[coach]

Not all of us have access to non-ethanol laced gas. As much as I’ve heard about issues with ethanol in gas, I’ve been using it for the last 15 years or so since it’s been mandated, and haven’t had problems. BTW- Most chainsaws recommend using mid-grade octane gas.