Ejection from F4 into North Sea.

[Cooperhawk]

Some language, but I don't blame them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7G1rvmwfIk

 

[Jeepnik]

That's actually pretty mild language. Never involved in a water pickup. But did a few from places that weren't all that hospitable. At that time I was stationed at Torejon in Spain. I'd like to say I remember that incident, but I don't. It likely was talked about a bit after it occurred. There just weren't that many incidents like that in USAFE.

Fortunately, most pilots managed to make landfall before ejecting, or actually made it back to an airstrip. Phantoms were hell for strong aircraft, but like anything that complicated "stuff" happens.

 

[Colonialgirl]

I would BET that was abut the Longest 30+ minutes in his life.
I'm glad GOD was with him at that time.
Did his co-pilot also get rescued? it says nothing in the tape and there is NO Radio contact from him in the radio conversation.
You dad was born a year after me (I'm 1941) and I am sorry to see he passed away four years ago.
May his soul find eternal rest in heaven.

Pamela
US Army
Korea, 1967-68

 

[graygun]

I think it said both were rescued by the chopper.

 

[graygun]

I used to work with a guy who ejected from a F-101 off the Pacific NW coast and both were rescued by the CG. IIRC,the aircraft had gone into a flat spin at 46,000' and they ejected at some lower altitude. He had a certificate from Weber (ejection seat mfr) in his first floor half bathroom.

 

[Number9]

While I was at NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii...
a camo Marine F-4 from kaneohe was shooting "touch & goes" on our strip.
About the 4th time it blew a left main mount just before lift-off.
He shut the engines down and veered off the left side of the runway.
Before hitting the tree line at the end of the runway.. the copilot punched out..
but the pilot didn't and was in the aircraft when it hit the trees and exploded.
The copilot's parachute didn't open.. lost both men.

 

[Jeepnik]

While I was at NAS Barbers Point, Hawaii...
a camo Marine F-4 from kaneohe was shooting "touch & goes" on our strip.
About the 4th time it blew a left main mount just before lift-off.
He shut the engines down and veered off the left side of the runway.
Before hitting the tree line at the end of the runway.. the copilot punched out..
but the pilot didn't and was in the aircraft when it hit the trees and exploded.
The copilot's parachute didn't open.. lost both men.

The Martin Baker seats in the Phantom were zero/zero seats. At least that was the idea. Basically a seat is rated at a speed and altitude you could be out and successfully eject. But specs, and what happens in real life are often a different thing entirely.

Those seats also had interlocks and other safeties that would prevent it from ejecting if say the canopy were still in place. In 1973 or 1974, a Phantom on taxi to the runway experienced a very odd "failure"

The base was a Phantom training base, and we frequently had pilots from other countries. The WSO that day was from Germany.

As the plane was heading down the taxiway, the drogue gun (a small shotgun type affair that fired a lead slug, the deployed the drogue shoot, which in turn deployed the main chute) fired. Now if things are working correctly, this would obviously happen well after the seat and occupant were well clear of the aircraft.

The pilot an American IP immediately shutdown everything. Called in the emergency and everyone and their brother responded.

The egress folks hadn't seen it either and called Martin Baker for advice. The poor WSO forgot every word of English he ever knew. I knew a bit (very little bit) of German. I ended up sitting on the intake for several hours talking to him. He did finally calm down and began to speak English.

Martin Baker had up open the front canopy and get the pilot out. We released the rear canopy (myself and another fireman as we were in those fancy silver suits. Oh did I mention, the base was in the California Desert and it was summer.

Once we had the canopy open we slowly raised it. Just enough to start pinning the seat. They had five or six pins (including one for the drogue gun) that had to be inserted to completely safety the seat. Then again, who knew if that would work. The seat had already done something it shouldn't.

Finally after about 4 hours the seat was safe and we slowly, very slowly raised the cockpit the rest of the way. The plan was then to cut the harness straps and lift him out. Like all plans it went right out the window as soon as the canopy was raised.

The WSO hit the quick release freeing the straps and quite literally jumped out of the cockpit and landed on two firemen below. No one got hurt and the seat didn't do anything.

The aircraft was towed to the end of the flight line and left as is until a Martin Baker team came to do their thing.
By the way, it was towed to just about where this derelict Phantom was sitting when I took the photo.

No, it is not the same one. But this one did try to kill us on two other occasions.

 

[Number9]

When I was at Glynco NAS, we had a transit F-4 from who-knows-where come in just before dark. They parked him on the edge of the tarmac near the control tower with the tail overlooking a nice sage grass field.
Early the next morning it was time for him to go. You would think they would have moved him off spot before starting engines.. they didn't!
When the two J-79's lit off, they had a hell'va brush fire.. I think that was about the time the ground crew finally woke up! :mrgreen:

 

[Rick Courtright]

The Martin Baker seats in the Phantom were zero/zero seats. At least that was the idea. Basically a seat is rated at a speed and altitude you could be out and successfully eject. But specs, and what happens in real life are often a different thing entirely.

Hi,

A number of years back I was at a "pre-opening" air show for the Palm Springs (CA) air museum. The highlight of the day was to be the arrival of an F-14 the Navy was donating to the museum at the same time they were getting ready to hand Miramar NAS over to the Marines.

There was some adventure getting the Tomcat on the ground and into its assigned spot, at which time the waiting ground crew took over. They let the public get much closer to that aircraft than I'd have ever suspected they would, but they also guarded three things very carefully to keep people away: the onboard computers, the tailhook and the ejection seats. None of these items had been removed or secured/disabled yet.

I got to talking with one of the ground crew about ejection seats, which are completely foreign to me. He mentioned they were all terrified somebody's kid would get up there, pull the wrong handle and end up 150 ft in the air with nothing to hold onto. He went on to tell me a zero-zero ejection NEVER works according to plan or design, even when somebody's properly strapped in.

Would that be a fair assessment?

Rick C

 

[Heliman]

This may be irrelevant to the post, but I got to fly rear seat in a Phantom from China Lake, CA to LA. I was a plane captain at the time. The pilot was a Marine Major TAD to our squadron. He left me in LA and brought his girl friend back in the F4.

At any rate, I had strapped the pilots in many times and it was strange to be strapped in myself by a squadron mate. I felt very uncomfortable sitting in that seat with no pins installed.

That incident and flying rear seat in a TA-4F Skyhawk were the highlights of my 4 years in the Navy.

Can't remember where I got my seat checkout. It was either Miramar or North Island. Regardless, the training was nearly as fun as flying.

Glad I never had to punch out. :D

Dave

 

[wolfsong]

Absolute drama. Riveting.

 

[Cooperhawk]

In VN we had a VN National sitting in a OV1 Mohawk eject himself right through the canopy. Course he had no chute so he didn't make it.

I was riding as a guest in a B52 out of Seymour Johnson AFB when we had an inflight electrical fire. I had been checked out in the ejection seat, but was not in one. :shock: I was in the jump seat between the two pilots. I asked the AC Commander what I should do if we had to get out. He said with a grin, and I quote, "I'll zoom the AC and bleed off speed, then pick a hole. There will be six." :D

We got the fire out and continued the mission.

 

[cruzerlou]

Man, that was spooky stuff. Glad they both made it .
Lou

 

[Jeepnik]

Same base a bit later an egress troop was checking a Phantom seat inside a hanger. He found a shortcut. One night he was leaning over into the front cockpit checking something and the seat rocket fired. He wasn't fast enough. The seat put a severe bend in the I beam above the Phantom.

Whether it was getting hit in the head or the burns from the rocket motor I never knew. I hope he was unconscious then the flames hit him. But the timing of the event was so fast I doubt it.

Ejection seats save lives. But they come with there own set of dangers. We spent hour after hour honing the skill of quickly making a seat safe. It was that important.

 

[Heliman]

I heard of an accidental ejection in a hangar at NAS Lemoore that killed an AME. It too bent a beam in the hangar. This was prior to 1970.

Dave

 

[gramps]

Thanks for sharing. Who needs TV, when we have the Rugerforum and it's members. As Wolfsong mentioned- plum riveting
gramps

 

[RKB]

I worked F4's for 22 years. Whenever I needed to be in the cockpit, I traced the streamer that all the seat pins were attached to, making durn sure they were all seven in place. Just before I retired, I got a ride in the back seat of one. It was a really strange feeling, sitting in an armed seat.
Oh, what a thrill, though! Roller coasters do nothing for me after that.
BTW, Zero-zero capability only applies to a stationary aircraft. Zero altitude AGL, zero airspeed. If you have forward momentum, you need altitude to survive the ejection.

 

[bobski]

the way i remember was, even if a seat is 0/0....it must be in the 'envelope.' meaning a certain degree nose up or level. 0/0 doesnt do you any good if the jet is sideways going down the runway.

and too, sounds like during the preflight brief the crew that hit those trees must have briefed for rear seat only option...thus the pilot stayed in to try to fly it.

and again, its been 30 years or more but the mbu5 ejt option w/nes8 and rssk 1, i believe was....

front seat fires both
back seat fires both
back seat leaves front stays
manual escape: safe the seat, jettison canopy, pull override handle firing drogue connector link guilotine and releasing leg restraints, leave seat in jet, jump and pull ripcord

but what do i know. im just a retired PR/AME navy guy.

 

[RKB]

Zero-zero on the Martin-Baker seat in the Phabulous Phantom meant exactly that - zero airspeed AND zero altitude AGL. Stationary aircraft. Even that was questionable, depending on local weather conditions and airfield elevation.
It was a good seat in its day and saved a lot of lives.

 

[Jeepnik]

the way i remember was, even if a seat is 0/0....it must be in the 'envelope.' meaning a certain degree nose up or level. 0/0 doesnt do you any good if the jet is sideways going down the runway.

and too, sounds like during the preflight brief the crew that hit those trees must have briefed for rear seat only option...thus the pilot stayed in to try to fly it.

and again, its been 30 years or more but the mbu5 ejt option w/nes8 and rssk 1, i believe was....

front seat fires both
back seat fires both
back seat leaves front stays
manual escape: safe the seat, jettison canopy, pull override handle firing drogue connector link guilotine and releasing leg restraints, leave seat in jet, jump and pull ripcord

but what do i know. im just a retired PR/AME navy guy.

Well, "Navy" explains it all. :mrgreen: Truthfully, I don't remember all the stuff about the seats. But, I've seen them work right and work wrong. Still in all, as has been mentioned, they saved a lot of lives. I'd venture to guess a lot more were saved than lost to the seat and it's design.

By the way, didn't the A-4 also have the same seat? Someday I'll tell the story of the A-4 that pancaked on the desert floor outside of Victorville CA.

 

[bobski]

0/0 in the envelope rkb......it will work. agree. but not 500mph nose dive 200' off the ground. follow me? if the wing broke off and the plane was skidding down the runway banked on only 2 landing gear.....0/0 is moot. it must be in the 'envelope.'

 

[bobski]

i know in the 80's, nasa was testing horizon seeking gru7 seats in langley. it was meant for the a6, but i dont think it ever was incorporated.

 

[RKB]

I know what you are saying, Bob. "In the envelope" has nothing to do with "zero-zero". Z-Z simply means zero airspeed, zero height AGL. The Martin-Baker would usually save your ass when your aircraft was stationary on the ramp/deck and you had to eject. The 'envelope' is a fluid environment that changes rapidly with increased velocity and/or altitude AGL. Basically, if you were moving, you had better try to grab some altitude quickly if you expected it to keep you in the land of the living.
Newer ejection seats are a LOT better - but none will ever be perfect.

 

[bobski]

we lost a lot of pilots in a7's at the end of runways with escapacs. and escapacs were so simple rarily did anything go wrong but they did. all it took was a little bouncing around as gear collapsed or wings dug in when in the rough and next thing you know...they were out of envelope. im thinking thats what happened in the story above by the op.