Deleted due to "incorrect" usage of terms

[BlkHawk73]

Rather than have these overdrawn, lengthy debates wouldn't it be SOOO much easier to simple call them by the proper name?????

The real issue is that there is not a "proper" name. There are only naming conventions that some people have deemed "proper".

Really? Seems that Ruger, the manufacturer of these debated models seems to have given them a proper name and...what...wow...they even have that name rollmarked on the side of the cylinder frame. Those big ones say "Vaquero" while those slightly smaller ones have "New Vaquero". Hmmmm...different frames, different models...different names...Who's have guessed that the manufacturer would actually give them an actual name to one of their products. Crazier still is that they gave it a different name than any other model.

Come to think of it, Ford did this once too. You see they had the Bronco and then later had the Bronco II a smaller variation. Hmmm...that sounds familiar. Anyways...if someone says "Bronco" do you think the large full sized model or the smaller one?

 

[Wheelgunner]

I really get annoyed with all of these terminology issues. I was chastized on the Canadian gun forum for calling a gun a weapon. It was deemed as being politically incorrect. For those who don't know, the forum is called Canadian GunNutz. This is food for thought.

Wheelgunner

 

[Snake45]

True, but to simply say "york" wouldn't make sense, at least on this side of the Atlantic.

Exactly, which illustrates my point perfectly. Because we KNOW that York and New York are two distinctly different places in two different countries on two different continents.

Never heard of York, PA?

I can tell you must not be a drag racing fan. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Quattroclick]

Seems that Ruger, the manufacturer of these debated models seems to have given them a proper name and...what...wow...they even have that name rollmarked on the side of the cylinder frame. Those big ones say "Vaquero" while those slightly smaller ones have "New Vaquero". Hmmmm...different frames, different models...different names...

So, Vaqueros in 44 special caliber have large frames. I did not realize that. :roll:

On Ruger's website as well as in their catalog, you have to really search to find the term "New Vaquero". Apparently they aren't all that committed to the nomenclature.

 

[101VooDoo]

Don't really have a dog in the fight, but have always been confused by the insistence on calling the original Vaqueros just 'Vaquero'.

Old model Black Hawks weren't called old models until the 'New Model' came out.

By that rationale, since the 'New Vaqueros' came out, shouldn't original, large framed Vaqueros be called 'Old Model Vaqueros'?

It fits better than just calling them 'Vaqueros', which could really be applied to any Vaquero. That's like just calling Old Models 'Black Hawks' Isn't it?

Jim

 

[Quattroclick]

Never heard of York, PA?

I can tell you must not be a drag racing fan. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or in to Harley Davidson factory tours!

I just like dodging horse drawn carriages getting there........

 

[Snake45]

Don't really have a dog in the fight, but have always been confused by the insistence on calling the original Vaqueros just 'Vaquero'.

Old model Black Hawks weren't called old models until the 'New Model' came out.

By that rationale, since the 'New Vaqueros' came out, shouldn't original, large framed Vaqueros be called 'Old Model Vaqueros'?

It fits better than just calling them 'Vaqueros', which could really be applied to any Vaquero. That's like just calling Old Models 'Black Hawks' Isn't it?

Jim

NOW MY BRAIN HURTS!!!

 

[hutchman]

I'm just wondering if any of you guys a Jeep "LJ?" ........because the truth of the matter is that there is no LJ. Never was, never will be. It is an internet term for a long wheelbase TJ for those too lazy to write or say "long wheelbase TJ."

It is a New Vaquero to me........and there are no Old Model Vaqueros.

 

[Quattroclick]

Don't really have a dog in the fight, but have always been confused by the insistence on calling the original Vaqueros just 'Vaquero'.

Old model Black Hawks weren't called old models until the 'New Model' came out.

By that rationale, since the 'New Vaqueros' came out, shouldn't original, large framed Vaqueros be called 'Old Model Vaqueros'?

It fits better than just calling them 'Vaqueros', which could really be applied to any Vaquero. That's like just calling Old Models 'Black Hawks' Isn't it?

Jim

NOW MY BRAIN HURTS!!!

Two great posts. But, Snake, sorry to have to correct you, there are no pain receptors in the brain. Your brain can't hurt. But your head can hurt and I am sure that it does, just like mine! :lol: :lol:

 

[Mtn Biker]

I feel that people use the term "New Model or Old Model Vaquero" in an attempt to be extra clear on what gun they are talking about when they post. When they are corrected it seems "picky" to them. I think it does too.

I have seen posts where someone will post....."I just bought me a New Vaquero and want to know..blah..blah.." and the first response will be....."Is it the larger frame original Vaquero or the smaller New Vaquero?"

So we are all guilty of miss speaking.

VL

 

[5of7]

True, but to simply say "york" wouldn't make sense, at least on this side of the Atlantic.

Exactly, which illustrates my point perfectly. Because we KNOW that York and New York are two distinctly different places in two different countries on two different continents. How do we know this? Because "NEW" is part of New York (USA) proper name.

And your point is? Look...

If I was talking about New York, and I simply said York, the listener would assume that I was talking about York in Britain.

On the other hand, if I said Vaquero when I was talking about a New Vaquero, the listener might assume that I was talking about the original version, but so what?

Now, if I said that I have a Vaquero and I shoot 250 grain bullets loaded to 1200 FPS, and shared the data with the listener, and the listener assumed that I was taking about the NEW Vaquero, that might be a problem, but as far as I can determine, that has not happened in this thread, has it?

.....it is still a model produced by Ruger named Vaquero with the New attachment to designate it from the original model, hence it is still a Vaquero.

This is completely false and basically the gist of the discussion. It is not a Vaquero. It is the "New Vaquero". Note the capitalization. "New" is part of its proper name. Just like it is part of New York's proper name. Nobody calls New York "York" and thusly, nobody should call a New Vaquero "Vaquero". Vaquero and New Vaquero are two different names for two different sixgun models. Regardless of how much folks like to introduce ambiguity and confusion with extraneous, or inthis case, missing descriptors, there is really none if it is left in simplest terms.

I really don't know why this is so difficult to understand, nor do I know how to make it any more clear than that. It boggles my mind that any of this is even necessary. To those who understand it is as simple as it can be. It's those who don't who unnecessarily complicate the whole thing.

Fine, but as far as I can tell (deleted post) the OPer did not recommend any loads for the Vaquero in question, therefore the difference in the two Vaqueros strength wise is irrelevant to this thread.

The fact that the OP did not inquire about load data does not diminish the importance of proper terminology as it pertains to safety.

Oh, I disagree with that.

I don't think anyone here is trying to make the case that New Vaquero is in any way an erroneous term for the gun in question.

What I think is at issue is the importance of the "New" in a discussion such as we have here.

This is not in the classified section, and no one is suggesting loads that might be inappropriate for either version of the Vaquero, so whether or not the OPer particularly mentioned the specific version of Vaquero is of no importance what-so-ever.

In short this whole discussion is an exercise in nit pickery.

 

[Snake45]

If I was talking about New York, and I simply said York, the listener would assume that I was talking about York in Britain.

When did I turn invisible???? I HATE when that happens! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[5of7]

.....it is still a model produced by Ruger named Vaquero with the New attachment to designate it from the original model, hence it is still a Vaquero.

This is completely false and basically the gist of the discussion. It is not a Vaquero. It is the "New Vaquero". Note the capitalization. "New" is part of its proper name. Just like it is part of New York's proper name. Nobody calls New York "York" and thusly, nobody should call a New Vaquero "Vaquero". Vaquero and New Vaquero are two different names for two different sixgun models. Regardless of how much folks like to introduce ambiguity and confusion with extraneous, or inthis case, missing descriptors, there is really none if it is left in simplest terms.

So if I said that I had a Vaquero that was manufactured in 2010, you would have no idea what I was talking about...is that it?

 

[5of7]

If I was talking about New York, and I simply said York, the listener would assume that I was talking about York in Britain.

When did I turn invisible???? I HATE when that happens! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I kinda 'magine that there are more than a few Yorks in America, but your point is well taken.

 

[Quattroclick]

When did I turn invisible???? I HATE when that happens! :lol: :lol: :lol:

74 posts short of 10,000 can hardly be termed invisible!

 

[Flash]

True, but to simply say "york" wouldn't make sense, at least on this side of the Atlantic.

Exactly, which illustrates my point perfectly. Because we KNOW that York and New York are two distinctly different places in two different countries on two different continents.

Never heard of York, PA?

I can tell you must not be a drag racing fan. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Snake,
The airport doesn't open to drag racers any longer but I understand your point. York is about 8 miles from me.............on this side of the Atlantic.

 

[Snake45]

I guess this situation is something like the Colt Commander.

Before the mid-'70s, ALL Colt Commanders were built on alloy frames. Sometime in the mid-'70s, Colt brought out the Combat Commander, which was built on a steel frame (and weighed about 10 ounces more). So since then, you hear people talk about "Lightweight Commanders," even though "Commander" all by itself should mean the alloy framed one, while "Combat Commander" should mean the all-steel one. (And then there are people who love to use the word "combat," so you'll even hear a few say "Lightweight Combat Commander," which is clearly a contradiction in terms.)

And then Colt started putting LW or LC (I forget which) in the alloy frame serial numbers. :lol:

Couple years ago I built up a gun on an old alloy Commander frame, but the only genuine Colt slide I could find for it came off a Combat Commander, and is so marked, so I actually own a "Lightweight Combat Commander," but I never, ever call it that. :wink: :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Snake45]

Snake,
The airport doesn't open to drag racers any longer but I understand your point. York is about 8 miles from me.............on this side of the Atlantic.

LOL! I can still hear the "SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! YORK YOU-ESS THIRTY DRAGWAY!" radio commercials in my head! Never got to go there, though.

I think there was also a US 30 dragway somewhere near Chicago, too.

 

[gak]

Regarding a few posts back, no, just leave "model" out of any Vaquero--old or New--discussiion.

 

[Quattroclick]

Snake,
The airport doesn't open to drag racers any longer but I understand your point. York is about 8 miles from me.............on this side of the Atlantic.

LOL! I can still hear the "SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! YORK YOU-ESS THIRTY DRAGWAY!" radio commercials in my head! Never got to go there, though.

Just in case anyone needed an explanation why those radio ads had a guy screaming "BE THERE!" at the end......... I love racing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcV62lQfBOk