Decocking

[Ethang]

For storage in the safe chamber empty, for carry, cocked and locked as God and John Browning intended. Anything else, unload it.

Are you sure about that?
The pistol JMB designed:

Thumb safety was a requirement of the military.

I totally discount your reality and substitute my own..... :wink:

I am aware of the original pistol, I believe it was ment to be carried cocked and unlocked. Mr. Browning did not think it needed a thumb safety. I don't think the thumb safety detracts anything from the use of a 1911, and still believe de-cocking a 1911 is an un-needed accident waiting to happen.

 

[Snake45]

...and still believe de-cocking a 1911 is an un-needed accident waiting to happen.

But you could say the same thing about decocking ANY gun. And we do it all the time with revolvers, for example.

 

[DGW1949]

For storage in the safe chamber empty, for carry, cocked and locked as God and John Browning intended. Anything else, unload it.

Are you sure about that?
The pistol JMB designed:

Thumb safety was a requirement of the military.

I totally discount your reality and substitute my own..... :wink:

I am aware of the original pistol, I believe it was ment to be carried cocked and unlocked. Mr. Browning did not think it needed a thumb safety. I don't think the thumb safety detracts anything from the use of a 1911, and still believe de-cocking a 1911 is an un-needed accident waiting to happen.

Then by all means....don't.....and if condition-2 carry bothers you, don't buy no revolvers neither....unless of course, you are the only guy in town who never thumb-cocks one....or will never need to uncock it once it's been cocked.

Just sayin'.

DGW

 

[Ethang]

...and still believe de-cocking a 1911 is an un-needed accident waiting to happen.

But you could say the same thing about decocking ANY gun. And we do it all the time with revolvers, for example.

Apples and oranges. The design of a revolver is different then that of a 1911. The hammer is much more accessible on a revolver. The hammer profile and the beaver tail and grip profile make de-cocking a 1911 much less intuitive. I will give you that the original grip safety made access to the hammer easier, beavertails complicate it.

How many ND's happened when decocking say a 94 Winchester or a Colt type Single action? Was that not one of the reason Bill Ruger changed to the transfer bar and Winchester added the cross bolt safety?

I am very comfortable with the 1911, I have MANY thousands of rounds through several in USPSA competition and I carried one for several years before my job choice mandated a striker fired weapon. I stand by my opinion.

 

[eveled]

I agree it is apples and oranges, you can also fully load a revolver with one in the chamber without cocking it. You would only need to lower the hammer if you manually cocked it yourself.

I think Ethange's post is spot on.

 

[k8vf]

I am not sure, but I think ruger invented the transfer bar due to a law suit because a guy carried a single action with spur firing pin with 6 rounds and dropped it and it went off. (hammer on primer situation)

But I have carried condition 2, and have no problem cocking.(or un-cocking) Generally I carry condition 1.

In the safe, I would say unload chamber. My rationale is twofold:
1-in case of fire, the gun will cook off and finally empty magazine.

2-are you sure the kids can't get to it? (just asking- if they can, they probably cannot rack it.-but might be able to cock it)

No safety on my model 92 or model 94. (between the ears safety)

 

[Spad124]

FWIW, my father in law was a company armorer during Korea. He told me that an officer who was assigned to escort a US serviceman prisoner drew a 1911A1 for the escort duty and ordered my father in law to load the pistol in condition 2 even when doing so was against standing orders. My father in law said that standing orders required pistols to be issued in condition 3. But, what do you do when you are a corporal and a 1st Lt gives you an order ?

 

[modrifle3]

Interesting views on the 1911. I was always told the grip safety was requested by the military. Against advise by others I carried my 1911 half cocked. Don't carry it any more.

 

[5of7]

I remember a story about a police officer who carried a .45 auto "cocked and locked" who went into a bathroom stall to relieve his bowel.

He hung the gun on the coat hook on the door and when he was done, he reached for the gun and in so doing, bumped the trigger on the hook......the gun fired and continued to fire until the magazine was empty all the time spinning around that coat hook.

Now I would tend to doubt the part about multiple shots, at least that many of them, but the point is that he thought it was cocked and locked, when it was just cocked.....safetys can get wiped off during carry.

As the story goes, whenever that cop started for the bathroom after than, everyone in the station house hid under their desks.....it must have been embarrassing for him. 8)

 

[modrifle3]

That situation was documented by G&A years ago in a home defense article. Wasn't a stall or officer but a civilian with a 1911 on a coat hook in a closet.

 

[dlidster]

Any discussion of the condition of the grip safety? Or, is this just another incident that evolved into an urban legend and the firearm became a 1911?

 

[Snake45]

That situation was documented by G&A years ago in a home defense article. Wasn't a stall or officer but a civilian with a 1911 on a coat hook in a closet.

I have a very hard time believing the story. :? :roll:

 

[modrifle3]

Article stated a man kept a loaded 1911 on a hook and upon retrieving the weapon with safety off he gripped the frame and hit the trigger. Weapon discharged one round. No spinning or anything crazy. Just highlighted safe storage and access stating that a loaded weapon should not be stored with any object in the trigger guard. Also could have been the authors dramatization of the legend in a more realistic scenerio.

 

[1911Tuner]

For storage in the safe chamber empty, for carry, cocked and locked as God and John Browning intended.

That's a popular belief that has no basis in history or reality.

Neither God nor John Browning had any such intent. The thumb safety aka the "Manual, slide locking safety" was added on request of the US Cavalry in 1910 as the final modification.

The purpose was to allow the mounted cavalryman a fast way to make the gun safe for reholstering when he found himself in need of both hands to regain control of an unruly, frightened horse.

Neither was it the US Army's intent to maintain the weapon in Condition One any longer than necessary...when action was imminent. Once the emergency had passed, the gun was to be returned to Condition Three.

Browning didn't have free reign on the 1911. He designed what he was asked to design. Beyond that, he probably didn't give a rotund rodent's rump what the army determined on its state of readiness.

If he had any intent at all, it was to use the half cock for a safety, since that's how he designed all his other exposed hammer guns. The '92 and '94 Winchester carbines, and the '97 shotgun are examples.

1910 Colt photo courtesy of Charles Clawson.

 

[modrifle3]

That's a good point about half cock...at the time he would have still been thinking in revolver terms. I have a high standard military model 22 that is safest on half cock if carrying one in the chamber. Very easy t move the hammer back but if the trigger is pull there is not enough power to set the primer off.