Damnable smoke back again.

[exavid]

Sometimes I really wish I still lived in South East Alaska. Medford is a pleasant place with a fairly moderate climate, big enough to find most anything I want but small enough that it doesn't really feel like living in a city.
Then comes summer. At least the last three summers of the ten we've lived here, have been under very poor air conditions due to forest fires in the vicinity. Last summer was pretty bad but this year is much worse. Today the visibility at the airport is 1 mile in smoke same as the past week. Worse than LA back in the late 50s.

End of gripe!

 

[Cholo]

I can see how it'd be bothersome. I got sidetracked in Breckenridge, CO a few days ago and ended up in a bar, long story. I sat outside and a couple asked me if the smoke was bothering me. I said no, I can't even smell it. They were both pulling on vape pens. They said they were smoking oil and they meant the forest fire smoke. Yeah, I knew that Couldnt even see the mountain behind me. What mtn.? An hour later you could see it. Hell of a thing-- forest fires

 

[blume357]

Natures way of rejuvenating a forest.... hard for us humans to get our minds around this.... Redwood seeds will not sprout until they are toasted from a fire..... I often wonder how many forest fires there were on the east and west coast back 300 years ago.... I suspect something was pretty much always burning.

 

[sfhogman]

I believe Exavid might be referring to the Carr fire in Northern California. The forestland there is not being rejuvenated .... it's being devastated, as in burned flat. And Coast Redwoods grow from sprouts around older trees, seldom seeds.

The fire is now within the city of Redding.

A few prayers, especially for the dead firefighters and their families, would be appreciated.

Jeff

 

[bogus bill]

I visited a museum about fifty years ago in California`s gold rush country. There was a early photograph of the area blew up on the wall. It was of the mountains around the town that you could recognize looking out the door except the mountains were bare in the picture but heavy forest now. I commented about that to the old man curator there.
He said it was the standard practice of the Indians in those days to burn the area in the fall when they left the area to go to a lower elevation for the winter. That was to let the grass grow to draw game back to the area to hunt. There isn't much grass or brush under tall, thick timber!
Remember that propaganda tv ad of "Iron eyes Cody" paddling a canoe with a tear running down his face to do with preventing forest fires? People swallow up that stuff and it was as phony as Italian born Iron eyes Cody was. I met him once. ( He was a nice friendly guy!)

 

[Rick Courtright]

I believe Exavid might be referring to the Carr fire in Northern California. The forestland there is not being rejuvenated .... it's being devastated, as in burned flat. And Coast Redwoods grow from sprouts around older trees, seldom seeds.

The fire is now within the city of Redding.

A few prayers, especially for the dead firefighters and their families, would be appreciated.

Hi,

That's a bad one, listed at nearly 81,000 acres and only 5% containment a few minutes ago. A dear friend lives in Redding, on the other side of town from where the fire entered the city, and her daughter, SIL, granddaughter, her husband and their two kids are all at Grandma's right now, evacuated. As of yesterday afternoon, the daughter and SIL's house was reported to be one of very few still standing in their neighborhood. Granddaughter's house was ok, too, but I dunno about the neighborhood. I've lost track of them over the years, but I knew people who lived in Shasta, near Whiskeytown Lake, and I think that's one of the harder hit areas.

It's a serious reminder of last year when my sister and BIL, their younger son and his whole family went thru the same thing around Ukiah/Redwood Valley (they all got thru it ok.) I haven't been up there since the fire, but pictures just touched the tip of the iceberg as to the destruction: whole neighborhoods where the tallest thing seen was a burnt out car body covered miles and miles.

Prayers are definitely going out for all those affected.

Rick C

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

If logging were still allowed there would be more access to the forest to fight the fires. Forests need to be managed, and when they are, they plant the trees farther apart so the sun get's through. Unfortunately BLM is managed by enviro extremists now and want everything the way it was before people were here. And that's what they want. Fires will do some of the management if you don't care that fires get out of control, and burn houses, kill wildlife, and generally cause havoc. There are way more fires now than when I was young, and they could fight them, because they used the logging roads. Now fires are out of control all over the country.

 

[ronto]

Every 3 years or so my neighbor has a controlled burn on the 150 acres of forest land adjacent to my place. I'm glad he does because by letting the fuel build up and some dope lets his campfire get away from him would put my place in serious danger.

 

[Colonialgirl]

Natures way of rejuvenating a forest.... hard for us humans to get our minds around this.... Redwood seeds will not sprout until they are toasted from a fire..... I often wonder how many forest fires there were on the east and west coast back 300 years ago.... I suspect something was pretty much always burning.

The Natives who long ago lived in SoCal and the LA Basin use to call it "The Land of MANY Smokes"; Now I Wonder :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: why they did THAT ? :shock: :shock:

 

[Colonialgirl]

Natures way of rejuvenating a forest.... hard for us humans to get our minds around this.... Redwood seeds will not sprout until they are toasted from a fire..... I often wonder how many forest fires there were on the east and west coast back 300 years ago.... I suspect something was pretty much always burning.

Actually, the fire forces the pine cones to spew their seeds; I also found this:

dormant seedlings on a living tree — can sprout a new tree when the main trunk is damaged by fire, cutting, or toppling.

 

[Bull Barrel]

That is how the Bristlecone pine germinates.
I was in Yellowstone a few years after the fires there. The burned trees were everywhere but you should have seen the lush regrowth.

 

[SAJohn]

I have studied the last 25 years of U.S. historical fire data. A disturbing trend is very noticeable. 25 years ago the yearly average acres burned was about 3 million with each fire averaging about 30 acres. Today the average acres is about 10 million and the average acres per fire is 100.

The total number of wildfires per year had remained fairly constant at about 70,000.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I have studied the last 25 years of U.S. historical fire data. A disturbing trend is very noticeable. 25 years ago the yearly average acres burned was about 3 million with each fire averaging about 30 acres. Today the average acres is about 10 million and the average acres per fire is 100.

Hi,

John, did you happen to notice any correlation between the Yellowstone fire around 1988 and any associated changes in the fire prevention mentality afterwards? It seems there was a lot of discussion about changing firefighting/prevention practices from a "Put out any fire bigger than a match, right now!" which had prevailed for a half to full century to more of a "Let it burn and clean out a lot of the undergrowth which produces incredible amounts of fuel" program (the Indians may have been better resource managers than we think with their practice of burning out undergrowth to improve their hunting.) A coworker's brother helped fight the Yellowstone fire, and his story was that supposedly that first practice led to the Yellowstone fire being all but completely "unfightable" for a while, and it's certainly contributed to some very serious burns here.

I know locally a lot of us wonder "what's left to burn" with our wildfires in the foothills: once an area's burned pretty well, it seems to be ok for 10-30 years without a lot of "big" fire danger. Wild grasses and such still add fuel, but they're not as hard to fight as fully engulfed forests.

Rick C

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

exavid, SE Alaska would be a great place to retire. Hang out, fish, sleep, eat, repeat... I think it would be right up your alley.

 

[exavid]

I spent seven years in Ketchikan and fifteen years in Juneau. Pretty well covered SE Alaska between flying my float plane and sailing our ketch. My job required me to keep tabs on all the FAA communication and navigation facilities from Cordova and Johnstone Point down to Annette Island. So I saw pretty much all of SE Alaska up close and personal. The only downside was the heavy snow in Juneau and the nearly continuous rain in Ketchikan. It is some of the most beautiful country in the world, great hunting fishing too. Unfortunately my two daughters married and moved to the South 48 and I quickly got tired of commuting to Medford, OR and now Sandy eggo to see the grandkids. My retirement also made it harder to live in God's country with the higher living expenses too. So here we are enjoying another summer of smoke.

 

[SAJohn]

Rick, It wasn't until the mid-90's that I see a real climb in the wildfire data.

Another interesting fact is the number and sizes of wildfires in the 20's through the 40's. There must not have been much in the way of firefighting in those days as it held fairly constant at an average of about 40 million acres per year and 220 acres per fire. (About four times the last few years in acres per year and twice the acres per fire average.)

John

 

[Colonialgirl]

OF course NOT HEING are the enviro-nazis that put a STOP to clearing out flammable underbrush, dead trees and fallen branches along with an end to logging and logging roads. That, PLUS people moving higher and higher up the valleys on the the hillsides and NOT being allowed to clear the area around their homes.
SAY TY;
Re: The NM fire around Philmont Scout Ranch, Are they still logging in the area or has that been stopped too?

 

[bogus bill]

I had a friend who loaded up his PU with some dead branches. A lady ranger made him go back and unload it in the woods where he picked up the dry old sticks. By the way, prior to the incident he was a forest fire fighter.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I had a friend who loaded up his PU with some dead branches. A lady ranger made him go back and unload it in the woods where he picked up the dry old sticks. By the way, prior to the incident he was a forest fire fighter.

Hi,

Did he have a permit? Around here, you go to the USFS Ranger Station, tell 'em you want to gather firewood, and they tell you where you can do that, how much you can get, and a few other things like what kind of spark arrestors are approved for chain saws and so forth. The permit used to be free, but I'm sure some wag has figured a way to tack on a fee by now. Without a permit, you're not supposed to pick stuff up and take it home. Since I can't think of anywhere around here open campfires are still allowed, in essence it appears you're supposed to leave everything pretty much where it was when you got there...

Rick C

 

[bogus bill]

Evidently he didn't have the permit. He told me he picked up the dead wood for his wood burning stove at home. That was in California. They also have a "Adventure Pass" in certain areas. Many years ago it was something like $5 a day. If you were driving through the forest and stopped to take a whizz in the woods they could fine you without one. This was in Los Angeles county up around Angeles Forest etc. It`s about the money and justifying their jobs. I worked a few years myself for the NPS in several parks and a state conservation dept many years ago.

 

[BearBio]

Wood gathering is still about $5.
Adventure passes just went up from $10 to $80 for seniors (lifetime pass)==the price change was advertised for 6 months and only a few took advantage of it. Good in forests, wildlife refuges, national parks.
Clearing underbrush around buildings is not only allowed but REQUIRED!
At least here in WA=most fires are #1 Lightning and #2 kids with illegal fireworks. Most people are too lazy to clear underbrush or to control their brats!
Violations for spark arrestors (or, rather, lack of!) are issued daily by LEs, in this forest (My office is in the Forest Supervisor's Office and I go shooting with the LEOs)

BTW: We are surrounded by several fires. Several friends have been evacuated and we are using prescription nasal sprays in order to breathe. Typical summer! A close friend is a Hotshot=he's been gone since May, back 2 weekends (he's a newly wed), and will be gone until late Sept or Oct.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Adventure passes just went up from $10 to $80 for seniors (lifetime pass)==the price change was advertised for 6 months and only a few took advantage of it. Good in forests, wildlife refuges, national parks.

Hi,

Just a note: you're talking about a different pass from the Adventure Pass. The AP is just for parking on USFS land, not for admittance to parks, other lands, etc. As far as I know, it's still $5/day or $30/yr, with $5 more for a second vehicle.

My last trip to the ranger station was a week or so ago, and the fellow holding down the desk, phones, etc. said a lot of people did take advantage of the "old price" on that other one (which has a new name I forget.) I already had mine before the price hike was announced so it was $10/lifetime. New price is $20/yr, or $80 for senior lifetime, and if you've bought four of them as a senior, you can trade 'em in on the $80 pass. Just don't lose it: if you do, you've gotta replace it at full pop.

Rick C

 

[exavid]

Another summer day with 1 mile or so of visibility in the smoke. I was out on my scoot and had to keep the face shield closed because my eyes burned from the smoke laden wind. I also was wearing a paper particulate filter so it wouldn't worsen my smoke hack. The smoke we're getting is from the 'Carr' fire in Northern California. That's the bad one down there. over 1000 structures lost and I believe the death toll is now at six last I heard. The government is going to have to reconsider the way they fight these fires. To hell with the greenies, they need to get on these burns while they're still small for one thing like they used to do. They need to get off their asses and contract with that 747 borate bomber. Last year at the Chetco fire the USFS let the fire build before they finally attacked it. It almost caused a big loss at Brookings just down river. There were some six houses lost and several other structures burned that could have been saved if they'd used the air support that was available right away when the fire was small. Gonna have to make some changes in the way they handle these fires, it ain't climate warming, change or whatever that's causing it, just poor forest management and delayed fire fighting.