Dallas air show crash today

[Dave P.]

Very sad event, looks like a failure of something on the P-63 or the pilot had a medical problem,
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/r...air-show-at-dallas-executive-airport/3123720/

 

[Wyandot Jim]

I just heard of this crash of the CAF B-17 Texas Raider and their P-63
I first saw the B-17 with my Dad in 1965 during the CAF airshow in Harlingen Texas.
I also know some of the people involved in flying and maintaining it. I do not know who was on the B-17 but Son knows the P-63 pilot.
This is a real tragedy and absolutely no excuse for it. P-63 pilot has many many hours flying in the Tora Tora Flights which are much harder than what just took place.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/l...-rbd/287-1d54f7a6-05ad-40ee-a02b-961874c52bea

 

[hittman]

Very sad.
That P63 cut the back 1/3 off that plane pretty quick.
Somebody lost focus or maybe consciousness …. Who knows.

 

[eveled]

Omg! That’s horrific. Prayers sent.

 

[Snake45]

 

[gramps]

So sad! The loss of life was horrific. Prayers sent! Those vintage aircraft are in low supply too.
gramps

 

[Wyandot Jim]

I can't really explain how I feel about this tragic loss of both the people and The Texas Raider. As I stated above I have had a connection with this plane for 57 years. I also feel the ties and remember memories of my Dad who was a ball turret gunner on a 17. It was the first 17 that I got to tour with my Dad and it was a special time with him explaining the workings and details inside of the 17. I have been in quite a few since but this one stands out as my favorite. The first 17 I saw was while living on Tinker AFB OK. in 1950. Sad to say that three that I have been in are no more.
Since one of my neighbors was a volunteer on The Raider most every time the CAF was giving rides from one of the near by airports they would make it a point to fly down our runway at 800'AGL or so. I always got Goosebumps along with old memories.
Sorry to babble on, but when you love old warbirds as I do it's hard to see one and crew lost for no reason.
IMHO the only medical problem with the P-63 pilot is he had his head up where the sun don't shine. A real shame.

 

[ProfessorWes]

Just horrible.

 

[Dave P.]

Jim, If not medical do you think something could have failed on the P-63. From the video I've seen I
don't see how he just dove into it. I doubt he could see the 17 from the angle he hit it from but why just
break off into a dive? Planed as part of the show??

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Jim, If not medical do you think something could have failed on the P-63. From the video I've seen I
don't see how he just dove into it. I doubt he could see the 17 from the angle he hit it from but why just
break off into a dive? Planed as part of the show??

Dave,
I agree with you that I don't think he saw the 17. In that situation I would be looking to my left since I can't see much to my right for the whole 180 turn or looking straight ahead. Both would have kept the 17 in my blind spot. He was going to fast to join in formation or do a pass under to join up. As far as a dive he was probably just coming down to the pre set fly-by altitude and gaining a little more speed. The 17 had just finished loosing altitude. The fighters fly a little smaller circle than the bombers as you can see. The 17 is wings level and at altitude for the pass.
We will probably never know.
I will add maybe that the fly-by pattern should not have been so tight that the P-63 had to keep such a high angle of bank to make the turn

 

[hittman]

Voice recordings on either plane I wonder?

 

[contender]

Anytime an aviator, an aircraft, or even the crew go down like this I feel a loss. Words can't express my heartache.
My thoughts & prayers for ALL the family members of this tragedy.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Voice recordings on either plane I wonder?

No

 

[wolfsong]

 

[eveled]

I wonder how long they will keep flying these ww2 relics. I know this wasn’t the planes fault and accidents happen.

With proper maintenance do they really have an indefinite life?

I imagine insurance and fuel costs will contribute to the decision to ground these old planes.

 

[Fox Mike]

My prayers to the families. Beyond that I am speechless.

 

[g5m]

In the distant past I saw three midairs involving 5 planes. One pilot was able to land. The others all died.
This midair looked, to me, like the P-63 pilot was going somewhere that he couldn't see (as in the B-17 couldn't be seen from where he was) and hit it.
Many years ago Mike Dillon wrote an article in Air Progress (I think it was Air Progress) about how the Confederate (at that time) Air Force was destroying so many rare planes. This thread is about two rare planes being destroyed and a number of people dying.

 

[hittman]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dallas-a...-authorities-working-id-victims-officials-say
“According to our Dallas County Medical Examiner, there are a total of 6 fatalities from yesterday's Wings over Dallas air show incident," Jenkins tweeted. "Authorities will continue working today on the investigation & identification of the deceased. Please pray for their families and all involved."

 

[RC44Mag]

Any word on the age of the 63 pilot yet?

 

[woodsy]

To me, it looks like they were going to perform some kind of "stunt". If so, shame on whoever approved the attempt.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

To me, it looks like they were going to perform some kind of "stunt". If so, shame on whoever approved the attempt.

Nope just in a race track pattern

 

[Ray Newman]

I am not going to speculate or make a SWAG (Scientific Wild Arsed Guess) as to what happened. Just going to wait for the crash investigation report(s) to be released.

 

[Dave P.]

Re looked at the video and I think Jim was right somebody just screwed up. With out knowing the briefing and coordination of the event It's
looking more like somebody was just not in position. No way that P-63 was going to see the 17 if he didn't expect or remember they were
nearby. Guessing everybody flying the event already knows pretty much what happened.
Sad thing, just one second, actually a half a second or maybe 50 to 100 feet different location in a big sky and they'd still be alive.
You just never know......
The pilot reported or rumored to be flying the P-63 without knowing him personally sure looked qualified and then some.

 

[Wyandot Jim]

Here is the Bio of the P-63 pilot. Since his name has not been released I didn't include it. As you can see he was very qualified to fly the 63 and others. The CAF and the FAA has high qualifications/standards to be able to fly the high performance fighters especially in air shows . Just a real shame. One mistake can ruin your whole day

• Hometown: Montgomery, TX
• Occupation: Airline Pilot
• Year of first flight with Tora: 2009
• Tail number(s) you normally fly with Tora: Hawk 18
• Obtained License: 1975
• Flight Hours (Approx): 34,500
• Notable aircraft flown: North American T-6 and P-51 Mustang, Bell P-63 and P-39, Curtiss P-40 Warhawk, B-777, B-737, MD-80, Falcon 50 and 900, DeHavilland Twin Otter and Dash 7
• Favorite airplane to fly: Hard to beat the Mustang!

Started flying with my father when 10 years old, in a J-3 cub. Developed a love for sport flying, Biplanes, Radial engines, and Aerobatics after moving west and working at Santa Paula Airport (California). Soloed at 17 years old.

Became a flight instructor while in college, and taught Primary, Tailwheel, Instrument flight training and Aerobatics all throughout college. Graduated with a BS in Aeronautical Engineering, from Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, California in 1982.

Started flying for the airlines in 1982. Flew De Havilland Twin Otter and Dash 7 aircraft for Rocky Mountain Airways. B-727, MD-80, and B-737 with Continental (now United) Airlines.

Presently flying as a Captain in the B-777 for United Airlines, based out of Houston, TX

Currently has over 34,500 hours of flight time in over 100 types of aircraft.

Rated as an Airline Transport, Commercial Glider, and Seaplane Pilot, as well as a Flight Instructor for single and multi-engine aircraft, and Instruments. I currently own a Vans RV-8.

Started flying with the CAF (Commemorative Air Force) in 2009 after starting out in the Pyro field as a helper.



Flies several different types of CAF aircraft.

North American P-51 MUSTANG, Dixie Wing, Atlanta

Bell P-39 AIRACOBRA, Centex Wing

Bell P-63 KINCOBRA (2), P-63 Sponsor Group, Houston, Dixie Wing, Atlanta

Tora Tora Tora: Zero, Kate. Val. (Presently assigned Hawk replica)



Married to Lori for 20 years, Two grown children, Traci and Kelli, four young grandkids... Leon, Jude, Arlo, and Paige

 

[hittman]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dallas-a...former-keller-city-councilman-us-army-veteran

 

[Wyandot Jim]

I wonder how long they will keep flying these ww2 relics. I know this wasn’t the planes fault and accidents happen.

With proper maintenance do they really have an indefinite life?

I imagine insurance and fuel costs will contribute to the decision to ground these old planes.

On most of these restored planes the only thing that is a relic is the Data Plate. Since they are not flown a lot total time is low. Look how long and total hours on DC-3s
I watched my neighbor restore a MK-9 Spitfire for 7 years and when he was finished none of the skins were original and all magnesium rivets had been replaced with alum. ones do to the possibility of corrosion.
Take some time on the WEB to see how much time and work goes into making a relic into a new plane. Must be why they sell for 2-10 million $$$$$$
It took several years to replace corroded spars among other items in the B-17 Texas Raider.

 

[jims]

I rode in the B-17, 909 about 6 months before it crashed. Hate to see the loss of life and the planes. Sad about both.

 

[jimbo1096]

Such a sad loss of life and historic machinery. I have also visited and walked thru the Texas Raider and several of its brethren. I won't speculate on the why except to say the P-63 was in good hands of a well qualified pilot, the plane had blind spots and the formation of the fighters had made the turn and he was playing catch-up.
May the Lord keep their souls and give peace to their families.

 

[hittman]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/dallas-air-show-collision-who-are-6-victims-killed
Pilots were experienced, had flown for American and United

 

[woodsy]

I have seen several videos of the accident and can only say that it was a failed stunt. Whether it was planned that way or not, it should have been a simple formation-flying event. Two historic planes destroyed and untold grief for the families involved.