Cowboy Vaqueros

[Fred C Dobbs]

Used to shoot CAS. My first pick for guns was a pair of 5.5" old Vaqueros. Bob Shaw massaged them. Smoothed actions, fit the Eagle buffalo horn Gunfighter grips, removed the lawyer talk from the barrel, rounded the cylinder as in black powder Colts, Changed out ejector. Nice reblue. I owned several other pairs of cowboy action shooting guns over several years but I was always disappointed. None shot or felt better than these.
45 Colt is bit of recoil when you are shooting against people with .38 pistols and 96 grain bullets.
I had Bob add two 45 ACP cylinders but had the backs cut for the little rimmed 45 acp round. (Extra thick rim to compensate for the absence of a half moon clip)
USed little 160 grain 452. bullets. The short brass with the heavy rims dropped out easily.
Great guns. Now moved down the road.

 

[stevemb]

Seems like a reasonable solution. I'd not allow the "gamers' to sway your gun/ammo choices though. In every type of sport or game, people can't seem to help themselves. They gotta dig for every advantage and lose sight of the spirit of the sport or game. I'm looking into SASS right now and wanting to stick to my .44 spec's, am looking for a 1895 Marlin. Folks keep telling, ya know, you could get a .357 lever and shoot these pip squeek .38's then ! Um, no thanks. A load should be used that'd have a reasonable chance at stopping an indian, or his horse, or, you get the idea. I like to play in the backyard with gallery type loads, but if the folks down the street called and said, hey we are surrounded by injuns ! I'd not grab the gallery loads, ya know ? stevemb

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

Hi Blackhawk. I was realistic, I was never going to win a match. I shot dualist one handed so I appreciated the lower recoil. I always shot right in the middle of the pack for my age group. Suited me fine. A friend shoots only 45 and has a ball. Shooting shorter Schfield brass in your 45 is also a choice.
You see it all the time. Guys constantly looking for the magical guns or golf clubs or whatever that are going to make up for a lack of talent or the right combination of genes. One can only shoot so well because of physical limitations and then you're peaked out. You go to the matches for the fun, the friendship and just because it is cool. It somehow puts you in touch with history and the romantic past of the west. That was enough for me.
On rifles. I had a Marlin 1894 Cowboy rifle with a 45 inch barrel. The long barrel was sweet because the big bore made it lighter. It was just the most balanced and a sweet amazing rifle. Loved it.
Also shot some cut down 97s. If you can find an old Ithica 100, 150 or 200 to use, they were made by SKB and are built like tanks. Lots of SxS shotguns at the matches.
My friend actually has decided to part with his replica Win 1866 45 Colt rifle with a 24 inch barrel. Send me a message if you are interested and I'll put you in touch.
Can't do it physically any more but it was fun while it lasted. I'd encourage you to pursue it. CAS is addicting. I would never win a stage event but I am a good long range rifle shooter so I won several side matches out to 400 yards shooting at gongs with single shots and large caliber lever guns. That was one event I was very competitive in. I guess the black powder silhouette experience paid off.
The trick is to just shoot and enjoy. My friend shoots a pair of heavy Remington 1875s, some colt clones and some 1858 Rem replicas with conversion cylinders. Can't bear to give up any of it although he wants to sell some of his guns.
If you can do it, Winter Range in Arizona is one of the most amazing big matches. I used to love going there.

 

[Joe S.]

Pic aint workin for me but id love to see em!

 

[Wyandot Jim]

am looking for a 1895 Marlin. Folks keep telling, ya know, you could get a .357 lever and shoot these pip squeek .38's then ! Um, no thanks. A load should be used that'd have a reasonable chance at stopping an

Well I don't know what you plan on doing with a 95 but you will not be using it in the main match. Only PISTOL cal. rifles are allowed. My 38/357s run right at 1400 fps, max allowed in both, BP and smokeless. Yea I also shoot 45 Colt,44-40 and 45-70 in Cody Dixon. Do I need to puff up my chest when I shoot them?? NAAAAAAAA they are just rifles.

Don't know why ya want to use short brass like Cowboy Special made by a CAS shooter, which is a rimmed 45 ACP. The reason for it was for shooting reduced load/case of black powder without filler.

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

Picture back now.
I think you meant a Marlin 1894 Cowboy. I have owned, at one time, all the calibers. I still have a 24 inch 357 but sold the 45 Colt as my 45 guns kept diminishing as my arthritis was increasing. What's interesting is the .357 and 45 versions seem to have appropriate pistol caliber twists. When they made the 44-40 Marlin 1894 CB, they used the 44mag barrel which has some crazy slow twist rate like 1 in 38. I never got the accuracy out of the 44-40 that I did from the other two calibers. I even stumbled on the 32 mag Marlin 1894 for a good price, shot the ammo that came with it, but didn't like it. Heavy because of the small bore and loading the mag tube like a 22 pump rifle was annoying. I prefer the side gate.
I did shoot some 38-40 Rugers and had a 38-40 '73 replica at one time. I really like 38-40 but in the end, straight cases are just a lot easier to load. Can't use a carbide sizer on a bottle neck case.
I only occasionally ran into a long range gong side match that allowed lever guns like 86 Winchesters and 95 Marlins. Most of the long range side matches in my experience are conducted with single shot black powder or smokeless rifles. A lot of matches even allow the Harrington Richardson reasonably priced break open single shot. I had a guy shooting one of those in 38-55 clean my clock once. heh.

 

[Joe S.]

Those look nice. Browsing on my phone. Is that a antiqued blued finish or stainless?

 

[KWYJIBO]

That's a really nice looking set of sixguns. I love the checkered buffalo horn grips. And it sounds like you had them fixed up with some really practical, well thought-out mods. Spend a pretty penny getting them the way you wanted? I'm not familiar with Bob Shaw. I assume he does really good work?

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

They were blued. You can see the holster wear. Bob Shaw was a talented guy who had his shop in Walker 47, A gun shop in Anaheim, Ca. A really nice guy who charged fair prices. He did a lot of work for me and all the CAS shooters around here. Died suddenly of a heart attack. He is really missed by all. Those grips are from Eagle Grips. Their GunFighter model. You can get them in Wood, horn or Fake Ivory. Very comfortable and secure for one hand shooting.

 

[stevemb]

Good catch Jim, meant a 1894. Was initially looking at a 1895 in 45-70 for Penn woods hunting only. Then the SASS itch. stevemb

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

Good catch Jim, meant a 1894. Was initially looking at a 1895 in 45-70 for Penn woods hunting only. Then the SASS itch. stevemb

Whatever you get make sure the rifle has a minimum capacity of ten rounds. The Marlin short 1894 doesn't hold ten. I think it's a C model.
Both pistols and rifles are almost always loaded when the stage starts. The rifle may be set somewhere or you may be holding it loaded when the buzzer goes off. The shotgun is always unloaded and resting somewhere like on a bale of straw when the stage starts.
I have a couple suggestions. Join The Single Action Shooting Society. www.sassnet.com
They will send you their newspaper, the Cowboy Chronicle. Lots of gun and leather vendors there. Carts, you name it. If you go on the web site, there is a locator map so you can find the local groups shooting in your area. Call the club contact and tell him you want to know more about CAS. Chances are he or she will be a really nice individual who will invite you to a match to observe and offer helpful tips.
If you make a minimal move to do the sport like showing up with two single action guns in some kind of holsters, someone will most likely loan you a rifle and a shotgun for a couple stages, and let you shoot in your civilian clothes. Around here, they give you a pass for a couple matches while you get yourself together. All in all, CAS people are about the nicest people I've found in shooting sports. You run into the occasional Sour Case but it's rare.
You shoot a lot of ammo so a progressive loader is a economical necessity. I guess 75% of CAS shooters have a Dillon 550b. progressive loader.

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

Same guns with Faux Ivory grips and "Cheater Hammers" installed. Cheater hammers are a known secret dualist shooter trick. Replace standard Vaquero hammers with a Super Blackhawk hammer with the thumb pad ground thin to the sides of the hammer. The hammer is maybe .250" lower than stock Vaqueros so makes single handed dualist shooting easier. When you never come anywhere close to winning, no one challenges you. That said. Bisley gun hammers are lower and legal.

 

[stevemb]

Thank You Fred for the advice ! I'm there now. Went to a SASS shoot in Yankee Lake Ohio last year. Nice folks there, loaned me a Stoeger Coach and a Rossi 38/357. I used my own Ruger .44's. A Sheriff Vaq and a 51/2" NM FT. Its what I have. Yeah, I'm looking at the 20" barrel, holds 10 44mags, so can light load them, or use 44spec's.. stevemb

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

Thank You Fred for the advice ! I'm there now. Went to a SASS shoot in Yankee Lake Ohio last year. Nice folks there, loaned me a Stoeger Coach and a Rossi 38/357. I used my own Ruger .44's. A Sheriff Vaq and a 51/2" NM FT. Its what I have. Yeah, I'm looking at the 20" barrel, holds 10 44mags, so can light load them, or use 44spec's.. stevemb

Steve, you might want to check the classifieds on http://www.calguns.net Someone is selling a Marlin 1894 cowboy in 44 mag. Wants $800. Don't know if he will ship or not but its worth checking out if that's in the budget. Trouble is, a lot of those Cowboy guns have gotten collectable. All the cowboy guns have cut rifling they call Ballard rifling. In other words normal rifling.
A lot of the standard more reasonably priced lever Marlins, not the cowboy models, have microgroove rifling. Some people say they won't shoot cast bullets accurately but they will. Just get on the Marlin forum and you can get some advice on that. At Cowboy action ranges, it only has to be so accurate but you do want to hit the occaisonal 50 plus targets that get thrown in.
By the way, shooting shorter rounds in a Marlin rifle made for a magnum length cartridge does not really work unless you have a really long bullet seated way out which kind of cramps your fast shooting recovery. What happens is the short round once in the lifting carrier allows the one behind it in the magazine to nose out and jam the lifter from coming up. You have to take the mag apart at the end and unlock the action. Best to simply down load 44mag for the rifle and load 44spl for the pistols. I learned this the hard way with 38spl in a 357 Marlin and 45 Schofields in a 45 Long Colt Marlin

Here is the Marlin 44mag ad http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=784380
If you offered him full pop on the price he might be induced to ship it. Shipping is unaddressed in the ad. Gun looks nice.

 

[stevemb]

Thanks for the further advice, Fred. Always appreciated. Am looking for a regular 1894, .44mag. Yes, the Ballard rifling preferred. Have heard the micro-groove can work with cast, but much fussier to get right bullet and right diameter for it. I have enough mag brass here, so no problem having a separate loading for the rifle, and won't risk building up a ring in the chamber either that way. At this point anyway, won't worry about what class I'm in, or score...but I am human...so.. stevemb

 

[Fred C Dobbs]

Yes, If you are going to put that time and money into it, you want to do well. The five seconds for a miss can just kill you. Shooting clean is the best policy. You can't make pick up enough speed to compensate for those. I guess the idea is to have gun no matter what happens. I set down a rifle after shooting and it fairly jumped out of the rack and went on the ground. My first gun of the first match of two days. Drop an empty gun and you are tossed off the stage. Drop a loaded gun and you are out of the match. After that I made sure I didn't screw up again when setting down an empty gun. Live and learn.