Complimented too soon...

[Jim Puke]

I recently posted kudos to Ruger customer service on the return of my New Vaquero 44 Special Sheriff. While the turnaround was quick, the FIX did not happen. The gun was returned because it would lockup while firing...cylinder could not be advanced. Well, it goes back to them and is returned fixed, or so I thought...until today. I take it out to shoot it...hoping that I would not be plagued with the miserable stoppages that I had experienced with the gun, since it was new...about 150rds, ago. So, I loaded the cylinder with 5rds..habit..and put them downrange...although, not accurately. I load the cylinder again...on the 2nd round, the guns locks up...on the 3rd, it did not lockup, but it did not easily advance. I did this for about 35rds and it would lockup or was difficult to advance the cylinder on every round. And, when the gun left my hands, it would shoot to the sights on every round...today, it did not shoot to the sights on a single round...4" left at 20yds...every shot.

At this point, I know they did not solve the lockwork problem and I have no idea what happend to the point of impact, unless they reset the barrel/cylinder gap..turned the barrel.

Monday, I will call and let them send me a label for it to go back.

 

[Hondo44]

Yep send it back. And now complain it doesn't shoot to point of aim any longer. Most likely they swapped barrels and/or cyls as you guessed because of a cyl/bar gap issue.

I believe your lock up issue is the barrel forcing cone rubbing on front face of cyl once the gun warms up and expands from shooting. Can you see rub marks on front face of cyl, sometimes only on half of the cyl face if front face has a little 'runout'. I'll always fix that first before sending back, and then usually not need to send back.

I send back for stuff like front sight on crooked. Sent one 44 FT back twice to get that right.

 

[Jim Puke]

Jim, I checked that and it is not rubbing...actually, that is the first thing that I thought when it happened. I could tell that the problem is in the action...just not sure what is not fitting correctly. I have had the b/c issues on some guns in the past and this is different. It appears to be something recoil induced as it would advance fine when I would reload the cylinder and try it before shooting again. At any rate, there is no marking on the front of the cylinder or the forcing cone.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[REP1954]

I have had a similar experience with a few Ruger SA's and a Belt Mountain Base Pin along with a Wolffe extra heavy base Pin release spring took care of it both times. If the pin is sloppy with forward movement the plunger Pin on the end may not keep the transfer bar from getting caught under the firing Pin and stopping the action. I bet when you point the gun upward when this happens it will then work

 

[Hondo44]

Poor fit of cyl pin to cross latch can be the issue, and easy to trouble shoot by just pushing back when gun locks up.

The only other main reason for cyl lockup also has to do with the transfer bar if trigger doesn't return completely due to a weak spring or friction in the trigger slot. Also easy to trouble shoot by removing the transfer bar and firing the gun. It can usually be wiggled out w/o removing the trigger and that nasty V spring. Hammer and pawl need to be removed, but can also be removed w/o messing with that spring.

Recognize, you do not need to hassle with the PESKY LOADING GATE SPRING, pull the trigger pin, OR trigger/transfer bar JUST to remove the hammer and pawl. Once you remove the grip frame, the hammer pin is the only other part you need to remove. After that, just pull the hammer back and all the way down, then depress the hammer plunger in the base of the hammer with a small tipped screwdriver to clear the trigger extension where the transfer bar connects to it. Let the hammer & pawl fall out. Reinstall the hammer and pawl back in the same way they came out. Push the plunger in by pushing it against the trigger extension just like you did with the tip of the small screwdriver, and the hammer will slip by the trigger extension. Piece o' cake.

If either the trigger or hammer pin are snug fits, after they're removed the first time, it's the opportunity to polish them so they're slip fits to put back in and remove the next time.



The cyl doesn't always show marks. Check the gap with gun cold by holding it up to light or the sky. You should see an even space between barrel and cyl. Do the same check after firing to see if the light space has diminished or partially disappeared. Also see if you can rotate the cyl by turning with your fingers with the gate open.

If the light space partially disappears, that's where you need to file the end of the barrel a tad because it is not square. Sometimes marks on the face of the cyl will also indicate which part of the barrel is rubbing, and that's where you file on the barrel. If the entire light space disappears when parts are hot from shooting, file the entire rear surface of the barrel evenly. This is not rocket science so don't worry. Just file a little off evenly, shoot another two cylinders full and see if it's fixed. If not file a little more, etc.

If the cyl overall length is too short at the front gas ring, it allows the pawl to shove the cyl against the end of the barrel too, and hang up. Check if it moves forward and backward with the gate open.

 

[Mtn Biker]

I had a similar problem with a new flat top 45 colt/ACP. Intermittently the firing pin would not retract back into the frame when releasing the trigger after firing. I could watch through the rear cyl gap while dry firing and once out of a dozen times you could see it stay forward after trigger release. If there is a fired case or snap cap in the gun it will catch the case and not let the cyl rotate. Empty it would work fine every time because there is room for that pin to protrude into the gap without a case in the cyl.
Looking behind the transfer bar at the back side of the firing pin I could see that the frame was slightly peened around the firing pin hole and if I pushed the firing pin down with a toothpick I could feel it catch as it neared the flush position.
I was very specific about what was happening in my description to Ruger and they fixed in up great the first time but I did diagnose it myself.

VL

 

[schloss]

That's unfortunate, Jim. I hope you can work something out, or figure out what's actually going on with it. I imagine it has to be terribly frustrating to send something in for repairs, only to have it return even worse.

Keep us updated.

 

[PriseDeFer]

Is it possible this could be a loading gate spring being dislodged thing? Was it Hamilton Bowen who wrote about the gate moving under recoil when it's over an empty chamber?

 

[Jim Puke]

Is it possible this could be a loading gate spring being dislodged thing? Was it Hamilton Bowen who wrote about the gate moving under recoil when it's over an empty chamber?

Hamilton did write about that...but it happens even when the gate is over a round.

 

[rkrcpa]

Another thought, only because it was noted on the repair order for my flattop, check the frame opening for the pawl. The work order stated that the frame opening was repaired. Is it possible that the pawl is hanging up in the slot in the frame? Your symptoms are exactly what I had. I assume they made the opening bigger and not smaller on mine.

 

[David Bradshaw]

I recently posted kudos to Ruger customer service on the return of my New Vaquero 44 Special Sheriff. While the turnaround was quick, the FIX did not happen. The gun was returned because it would lockup while firing...cylinder could not be advanced. Well, it goes back to them and is returned fixed, or so I thought...until today. I take it out to shoot it...hoping that I would not be plagued with the miserable stoppages that I had experienced with the gun, since it was new...about 150rds, ago. So, I loaded the cylinder with 5rds..habit..and put them downrange...although, not accurately. I load the cylinder again...on the 2nd round, the guns locks up...on the 3rd, it did not lockup, but it did not easily advance. I did this for about 35rds and it would lockup or was difficult to advance the cylinder on every round. And, when the gun left my hands, it would shoot to the sights on every round...today, it did not shoot to the sights on a single round...4" left at 20yds...every shot.

At this point, I know they did not solve the lockwork problem and I have no idea what happend to the point of impact, unless they reset the barrel/cylinder gap..turned the barrel.

Monday, I will call and let them send me a label for it to go back.

Let's look at the lockwork. POI shift most likely is another issue, such as the shooter or his relation to the birdhead grip.

To start, ease hammer back and look to be sure cylinder latch drops out of engagement with cylinder before pawl applies pressure to rotate cylinder. If latch clears cylinder notch, and cylinder starts to turn but hangs up, the pawl may be biting into the cylinder ratchet. Remove cylinder, push in base pin (to spring-load transfer bar), and repeat cocking stroke. If cocking stroke is smooth without cylinder, binding may be between pawl and ratchet (you indicate cylinder face doesn't drag on barrel).

If glitch remains, remove hammer from frame. Check action of hammer plunger----smooth compression and release. Remove plunger from hammer (retaining pin may be pushed out with paper clip. Check to see if plunger is bent or has burrs. Remove plunger spring (sharpened paper clip with tiny bend at tip). Check spring for kinks or breakage. Use paper clip to check plunger hole for pieces of broken spring or drilling chips. Clean hole thoroughly and oil or grease prior to reassembly.

Above symptoms can be intermittent. May not be the problem; important to check.
David Bradshaw

 

[BIgMuddy]

David beat me to it. I was also going to suggest the hammer plunger as I had the same problem with a New Vaquero. I removed the plunger and cleaned out the hole and had no more problems.

This happened to me on a three day camp out and the Vaquero was the only handgun I had! Talk about aggravating!!!

Dan