Collectors & the Current Value Situation

[Tucsonite]

Just Curious what everyone has to say. Over the past 2 years it seems the bottom has fallen out of the Ruger Collector pricing. I have watched many very nice Old Model Rugers on various Auction sites and even here in our own classifieds go unsold and they are priced well below RENE guide pricing.

Is it just the economy or is it something more? A few years back there were many bidding wars for any Old Model that hit the market. Now there doesnt seem to be any market at all.

I see there is a Nice boxed 10" 44 Flattop on Gunbroker with a Buy-it-Now price of $2500 and its been there for over a month, unbelievable!!!!

Whats everyone have to say?

Dan

 

[G2]

Dan,
No Doubt it is the Economy and the availbility of money, Not what it was.

I have bought so many neat, hard to find guns at great prices, I am Gun rich and CASH poor, and there still neat, hard to find, great deals showing up.

I had a fellow forum member invite me to Tulsa, but I'm afraid to go, I will spend more money on deals and I just about got the CC paid off. Self imposed gun diet.

And then Boxhead listed .45 octagon FA this past week at a great price. Was very tempted to fall off the wagon. :wink:

 

[RPM Enterprises]

I agree the economy has a lot to do with gun sales. People just are not letting go of the money. :shock: I have noticed prices dropping dramatically on certain Ruger models while some seem to be holding there own. I have noticed the biggest drops in Flattops and Hawkeyes while Single Six lightweights and actually Old Army's seem to not really be effected. Being my favorites are the early auto pistols I have noticed the decline there as well. To me its like the stock market you by low and sell high, well right now I have been on a buying frenzy. Even on new guns making 8% is tough. I recently received the RENE value guide and noticed prices were UP!!! makes me want to ask where these figures are coming from. Rod's two guns the red eagle that in my opinion should have brought an additional 150.00 than what it actually sold for and the black eagle gun about 75.00 more. Lets not even talk about memorabilia!!! That market is terribly soft. But you don't see much on Ebay like you did in the GOOD OL'E DAYS.......

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Needn't wonder where the RENE prices come from. Chet15 sends the annual "questionaire" out to all who want to participate in the pricing venture. Apparently "we" think that's what these guns are worth. Or is it, perhaps, what we WANT our guns to be worth? Hmmmmmm.

 

[Unconverted]

Can't sell your collector-grade Sturm Rugers for what they're worth anymore? Try another market... California. Our imposed gun laws have created an artificial shortage of used handguns at unreasonably high prices. We'll pay more if people will just ship to us.

 

[Axehandle]

No doubt the economy is bad... Another culprit could be all the recent instant collectables produced by Ruger.. These NM FT 44 Specials have totally absorbed my gun budget for 2010...

 

[chet15]

Needn't wonder where the RENE prices come from. Chet15 sends the annual "questionaire" out to all who want to participate in the pricing venture. Apparently "we" think that's what these guns are worth. Or is it, perhaps, what we WANT our guns to be worth? Hmmmmmm.

Yes...I make every attempt to get this out to as many indiiduals as possible. Sent about 30 copies out via email and others via snail mail. But when we only get a few of those back, it makes things tough.
And...I have always asked that people put prices in there of "What they would expect to pay another collector for a particular item".
Chet15

 

[bigbore45colt]

Chad,

Out of curiosity, out of the 30 or so email copies, how many did you get back?

BB45C

 

[Ale-8(1)]

As I recall, this year it was opened up to anyone on the forum who wanted to participate.

It would be interesting to know how many total responses you received.

:mrgreen:

 

[bigbore45colt]

And how many were from collectors...

BB45C

 

[rugerguy]

the GOOD, top notch "collectibles, can and will sell, if nowhere else, among the true "collectors", it is the more common, everyday stuff that does NOT, I can NEVER get the prices that may be shown in the 'price guide' or the Blue book, no sirree, gotta price them to "sell" (move) and then they will...and even then, I still have a few here that NO -ONE even stops to take a look at , at any given show................MOST want high capacity, carry, home defense guns, ...the 'black plastic stuff sells.................and YES, fewer 'gun dollars' out there, I worked this weekend for one of the local promoters, doing security, checking/tying guns at the door, and the majority of the people coming to the show, were SELLING stuff, and the rest were looking for holsters and /or ammo.

 

[BlkHawk73]

My take...it's the economy. I think while not as bad as it was, people are still keeping a closer eye and tighter hold on their extra funds.

 

[SteelShooter]

Somebody has some disposable income, the .243 XGI on Gunborker is up to $4,275!

Think people are looking for good bargains, have picked up several guns off Gunbroker to add to collection at below RENE pricing level, figure others are looking for similar opportunities.

Figure now is the time to acquire those Rugers you could otherwise not afford.

 

[coal]

I have a super brassy that I probably won't sell due to the economy. Maybe someday prices will climb again but I'll continue to take offers. I can only say no. If enough sellers say no the buyers will up the ante.

 

[Dan in MI]

I believe it is mostly the economy. I dabble in a lot of different "collectable" type arenas and they are all hurting. Recurve bows you couldn't touch for less than $800-900 two-three years ago are going unsold at $450.

Only a select few are spending freely.

 

[picketpin]

Another issue is simply the AGE of the people in the gun market/collecting.

I've been buyng #1s for over 40 years. MOst of the one i"ve wanted I have acquired over the years. Now at 60+ there are very very few #1s that interest me. When they do finally show up I'm prepared to pay a FAIR price but also I understand that I simply well nevr own every #1 I'd like. Either it just hasn't shown up yet and a few have simply been so grossly overpriced that it's pretty easy to live without one that you have already done without for 30-40 years.

So now I only buy honest "Bargains" or rare ones that are fairly priced and there really isn't one out there that I can't live without.

So yes the ecomoney is down but I also think the number of guys that are actively colelcting is dropping. Most of us are getting older and and fewer and fewer young guys have the disposable income to spend, on guns or any other "want".

RWT

 

[chet15]

Chad,

Out of curiosity, out of the 30 or so email copies, how many did you get back?

BB45C

Most of the ones I sent out were email, its just easier. So I got 8 or 9 of those back. Received 1 or 2 hardcopies back.
All were from collectors.
Really, I do appreciate all the input I receive from these from anybody who returns them...but especially those that are mostly filled out, otherwise there probably wouldn't be any prices at all returned for New Models or some of the lesser collected areas.
And this is the exact reason why I don't do a DA and long gun price guide....because there wouldn't be enough input to make the averages come out even half way accurate.
Chet15

 

[chet15]

the GOOD, top notch "collectibles, can and will sell, if nowhere else, among the true "collectors", it is the more common, everyday stuff that does NOT, I can NEVER get the prices that may be shown in the 'price guide' or the Blue book, no sirree, gotta price them to "sell" (move) and then they will...and even then, I still have a few here that NO -ONE even stops to take a look at , at any given show................MOST want high capacity, carry, home defense guns, ...the 'black plastic stuff sells.................and YES, fewer 'gun dollars' out there, I worked this weekend for one of the local promoters, doing security, checking/tying guns at the door, and the majority of the people coming to the show, were SELLING stuff, and the rest were looking for holsters and /or ammo.

Yes...no doubt about it. There are two types of buyers...the 95% who are looking for that hi-cap auto, ammo or whatever happens to be "popular" at the time, and the 5% who are looking for something in particular to fill a hole in their collection or for investment.
Chet15

 

[chet15]

Somebody has some disposable income, the .243 XGI on Gunborker is up to $4,275!

Yes...Ruger is selling these the right way by offering one example every once in a while....this is the reason they are being bid up so high.
But if Ruger just dumped the other 350 XGI's that they still have that were completed onto the market, the bottom would drop out.
Chet15

 

[mike722]

yep, there are a lot of nice old models available..when's the last time you saw TWO nice 10" 44 flattops for sale on an auction site in the same week? It seems like a lot more folks are selling them, causing the "bottom" to drop out temporarily.. and even those who have a little spare cash are not budging unless it's a super-tough-to-find gun..
I wish those stags and ivories would start coming out of grandpa's closet though :wink:

 

[bigbore45colt]

I agree, it's definitely a buyer's market right now. I have a feeling Tulsa is going to be a GREAT buying show!!

Looking forward to it!!!!

BB45C

 

[Ale-8(1)]

How many responses to the "open inquiry" that appeared here?

 

[radicalrod]

Gosh I think it may all be my fault after intensive therapy I have stopped lusting after expensive RUGERS.....with Rugerguys help I have adopted a new buying strategy .....I sure don't get many but heck I don't need to buy anymore safes either :lol: :lol: :lol: I am waiting for all the OLD TIME guys to flood the market so I can scoop them up even cheaper :shock: :shock: :shock:

On a serious note....could the Ruger Old model collecting market have matured.... sure doesn't seem to be many HARD CORE guys left.....I had a group of 4 I ran with and I am the only semi serious one left....3 of the 4 dumped almost everything.......sure the economy has had something to do with it too....another thought is maybe everyone has everything they need.... I know I have very few actual "needs" to finish my collection and time is on my side....I hope.......I have come to the realization that I can't own them all....but a guy can certainly try. see ya RR.

 

[mike722]

Gosh I think it may all be my fault after intensive therapy I have stopped lusting after expensive RUGERS.....with Rugerguys help I have adopted a new buying strategy .....I sure don't get many but heck I don't need to buy anymore safes either :lol: :lol: :lol: I am waiting for all the OLD TIME guys to flood the market so I can scoop them up even cheaper :shock: :shock: :shock:

On a serious note....could the Ruger Old model collecting market have matured.... sure doesn't seem to be many HARD CORE guys left.....I had a group of 4 I ran with and I am the only semi serious one left....3 of the 4 dumped almost everything.......sure the economy has had something to do with it too....another thought is maybe everyone has everything they need.... I know I have very few actual "needs" to finish my collection and time is on my side....I hope.......I have come to the realization that I can't own them all....but a guy can certainly try. see ya RR.

yeah, I have all I "need" that I can "afford".. as long as I don't mess up and try to go after other calibers and models, I tell myself that I'm in good shape! :lol:

 

[Ale-8(1)]

JMHO

I see maybe two dozen "big dawgs" that participate here. Obviously, that's not all of the Rugerphiles out there, but it points out how really few folks are "serious" about collecting in the true spirit of the term. This has a lot to do with financial situation. Out of the several thousand "members" here only a very small handful are into it big-time.

We notice that lately there have been many good guns for sale from some of the "heavy hitters". I wonder if the desire was to do a little "pruning" at a time of relatively high prices which has now cooled somewhat.

From what we see from Chet15, it appears thet the RENE price guide is basically determined by a dozen contributors, and that those are folks heavily into the game. As I see it, this is a community with a VERY SMALL active base and a large number of folks who, like me, kinda hang around to watch the show and pick off the occasional not-quite-pristine-but-still-neat piece for our "accumulations".

I have the interest . . . just don't have the dough.

 

[weaselmeatgravy]

One more variable to throw into the mix: How many of the high volume traders were paid a visit by ATF during their recent "sweep"? The BATFE seems to be handing out letters that essentially say to either cut the trading or get a license. That may further explain why some folks have turned a little gun shy.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

"Gun shy".

:lol: :lol: :lol:

PM sent.

 

[rugerguy]

You cannot judge the number of "collectors" based on who is here on the Forum, I know far MORE folks out there, who stop and "look" and do "buy" Rugers off and on and NONE of them are on the internet, as to ANY 'forum's, they may look and check 'prices; on the auction sites but then its back out into the world "looking"...yes, LOTS of closet collectors, and they are very stand offish, and h0ld onto their money........................now try and figure how many are "users" of Rugers, and no intention of collecting, but only having and using them, again, when the "price is right"...those are the guys I go after and take care of...they know a good deal and a good thing when it counts...........besides, they will buy MORE of them. :wink:
I think Doc 44 may have even better numbers as he has more input as to the realm of S&W collectors and just "How many " may be "collectors" and belong to the 'association' versus the "unknown" number of owners of any and all S&Ws............ a VERY SMALL % me thinks.....
Best example I KNOW of is, ME, I belong to BOTH the RCA and S&WCA and I do NOT "collect" either ,only kept a small number of the Red Label shotguns, and stopped with the last ones that had "fixed" chokes,shows how far back that goes. ( can't sell them either, as they are worth less than the 'wholesale' of any "new model" Red Label.........) 8)

 

[Tucsonite]

1st Ive heared of any BATF sweeps on Collectors but then the Volume I do is minuscule compared to the Big Dogs.

There seems to be a starting point to me for the downslide. When all the Collectors Pricing was published in the Blue Book!!! It seems that we outpriced ourselves and scared away a lot of potential new collectors in the process.

Just my .02

Dan

 

[Ale-8(1)]

The RENE price guide is allegedly the price one collector would pay another collector for a specific gun. I suspect it's really more like the amount a collector would expect to receive for said gun. The two numbers are likely very different.

Whether the everyday buying public agrees with that evaluation or not is another matter altogether.