Camping at night.

[Anonymous]

My wife and I camp at night in Montana my intention is only to keep a bear out of the camper. I saw a show on Discovery or History channel this year of black bears breaking into an old Dodge caravan, they ripped the windows right out and just climbed in. Thats when the 357 comes into play if they try to get in. I'm not going out looking for trouble with bears. I camp near yellowstone and there are bears around. I also go up 50 or so miles west of Glacier Nat Pk. I know bears are around but never heard of any problems in the area I go. BUT!!!! yoou never know. I can't afford a 44 right now but may trade in my P11 9mm kel-tec toward a .44 Ruger next year. I bought the 357 and single-six and a 10/22 this year pushing my dear wife to the brink.

Rich PS Thanks again for all the help and info.

 

[contender]

The best way to avoid having uninvited guests of the four legged furry kind is food smell dicipline. If you cook something,, it's best to cook it away from the camper. Next,, dispose of ANY leftover or unused food items WELL away from the camper. (Properly of course.) Next,, store all unused food in tightly sealed containers,, and if you can,, in a bear bag suspended away from the camper,,!
Gettting my message,, keep things that smell away from the camper.

 

[dlh38or45]

Truth be told, probably the best bear defense you can have--defense, mind you--is a short barreled 12 guage shotgun loaded with slugs and buckshot.

That's what the old Alaskan prospector told me, and I believe him. A Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 pump would be cheaper than any large caliber handgun and do a much better job for what you are talking about.

Edited to add: I live near Yellowstone and an 18 inch barreled Mossberg comes camping with me, as does my Marlin 45-70. I carry my 44 Mag Redhawk, but hte first thing I would reach for would be my 12 guage, if a bear was trying to get in my camper or my tent. First alternate would be my 45-70, though the distance the bullet would travel then becomes a concern.



DLH

 

[maxpress]

get one of the portable electric fences. they are being used to great effect in alaska. the bears hit em and run for the hills. i think i saw the article in field and streams last issue.
the gun idea is good for a backup but its kinda hard to find disorientated and sleepy in the middle of the night and guess where to shoot when the bear is trying to tip over/rip into your hooch.

 

[sourdough44]

It sounds like you may be in a hard sided camper, maybe even in an established campground? I'd have something around but wouldn't be to concerned unless more out in the bush. One thing I like about bearspray is that the threshold for using it can be much lower than with a gun. Of course you wouldn't want to spray it where some could end up in your camper.

 

[Anonymous]

We camp in a Casita 17' travel trailer. The trailer is kinda light duty no stronger than a car and yes we do camp in campgrounds but last year in Aug. on the Madison River we were almost alone not many folks out. Heres the strange thing

about these Fed. campgrounds they have no place to put trash. I had to truck it 10 miles away to a rest stop to get rid of it. The places I stay are in the meadows with no trees. I think the advice about a double barrel 12Ga. might be my best bet.

Thanks Guys,



Rich

 

[batmann]

I second a 12G. If you are inside the camper you can keep it close, but out of sight.

 

[gak]

The Today Show (NBC) this morning had a guy on - photographer and author of new related book - who was attacked in Yellowstone by a Grizzly mama he happened upon all of a sudden - 3 years ago. Lost an eye and almost ripped his face off - to paraphrase "if she wanted to kill me she would have." Amazing story. Had bear spray on belt - the attack happened so quickly couldn't even get to the spray. Made his way mostly blind (seeing direction of sun out of remaining damaged eye) 3 miles to a road for help.almost died. With the blood loss, must've been running on all adrenaline. Might be able to catch the interview on the NBC/TS website today or tomorrow--don't know.

 

[luvmyruger]

The best way to avoid having uninvited guests of the four legged furry kind is food smell dicipline. If you cook something,, it's best to cook it away from the camper. Next,, dispose of ANY leftover or unused food items WELL away from the camper. (Properly of course.) Next,, store all unused food in tightly sealed containers,, and if you can,, in a bear bag suspended away from the camper,,!
Gettting my message,, keep things that smell away from the camper.

Your boy scout training is showing through. This is the best advice. Like worrying about a CCW in the wrong side of town. You need to analyze the situation and minimize any possiblities of confrontation that you can. Plus, if you happen to shoot a bear, even in self defense, you will spend quite a bit of time talking with the rangers or Econ officers.

 

[DanChamberlain]

But what if XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX?

Dan

 

[AzRebel]

Dan, that's uncalled for.


maxpress said:

but its kinda hard to find disorientated and sleepy in the middle of the night and guess where to shoot when the bear is trying to tip over/rip into your hooch.

For some, perhaps. I've never had much trouble with being disoriented when I wake up. I remember once when we were camping, and my wife woke me up because she heard something scratching outside of our tent. The moment she said, "Daryl, wake up." I was wide awake, and had my handgun in my hand. It's not that hard to find for some folks.

The best way to avoid having uninvited guests of the four legged furry kind is food smell dicipline.

Taking precautions to avoid bears is great advice, but I've always taken it for granted that folks do this. I do it without much thought when I'm in bear country.

Even so, bears sometimes get curious, or for whatever reason will come into a camp/tent/camper. I remember a story out of Salida, Colorado some years back when a guy shot at a bear breaking into his camper, missed, and the bear killed and partially ate him.

It happens, so take precautions and prepare for the worst. That way you're at least ready if it happens to you.

Sorta like the guy this morning in line behind me at a nearby convenient store. He asked me, "Gee, are things so bad here now that you have to carry a gun?".

Keep in mind that I'm about 10 miles north of Mexico in SE Arizona.

I simply replied, "Nope, but things aren't so peaceful here that I want to leave it home, either."

The Boy Scouts will tell you how to take precautions against bears, but their motto is "Be Prepared".

If a .357 is what you have, then by all means take it with you. Folks have defended themselves against worse critters with less gun. If you spend a lot of time in bear country, then think about getting something more appropriate one day. It's a tool to save your own life if needed, so have the best you can afford.

Daryl

 

[mattsbox99]

I've camped for years in worse bear country, with only my backpacking tent and no gun. The best defense I have ever seen was a Maglite. Bears don't have particularly awesome vision and the bright light blinds them, they run from it and nobody gets hurt.

A pistol or shotgun will add some peace of mind, but in more than a year of being outside, I only had two encounters with a bear, both were peaceful. I carry bear spray as my primary defense, with a pistol or revolver as 2 legged defense.

 

[PeterCartwright]

The original post related to concerns about camper/trailer break-ins (while the dwelling was occupied). The comments about food make great sense for a tent, but almost any hard sided camper/trailer is going to house food along with people. (Mine certainly does). I know some Western parks prohibit camping in any soft sided dwellings out of concerns about negative bear/people interactions. Many (but not all) states consider a parked camper/trailer as analogous to one's home. Two or four legged varmints attempting to break in, and not heeding warnings to vacate, would likely face potentially deadly responses from me. I'd think the camper/trailer dweller would have plenty of legal protection in most states in such cases. I'll join previous responders in affirming the common shorter barreled shotgun (a.k.a. "riot gun") loaded with slugs and or 00 or 000 buckshot as an especially effective and economical tool for repelling boarders.

PC

 

[PeterCartwright]

Oops!

 

[rooger]

I saw a show on Discovery or History channel this year of black bears breaking into an old Dodge caravan, they ripped the windows right out and just climbed in.

I have camped many years near Lake Tahoe where bears visit the campgrounds every night. Although the rangers do their best at educating campers, some folks just don't follow the rules about camp safety. I have seen the results of bears tearing open many cooler chests and one night we saw a bear tear a window off of a van with ease. Bears are smart about finding food. They have to be. Unlike humans, stupid ones don't survive.

 

[ftlupton]

Might have posted this before but won't hurt doing it again. Wife and I were hiking in the mountains, had my handgun and walkin stick. Two big dogs were on us in a second, I had no chance to draw fast enough, luckily the owner hollered and they back off. Point is I couldn't believe how fast they were right at our feet, bears are faster and have no owner to call them off. I always thought I was pretty quick but they would have bitten us really bad before I could have shot them. Be prepared.

 

[mohavesam]

First defense: a very loud whistle or if you're in a camper, a can-powered air horn.

If you think the noise will irritate other nearby campers, just imaging what gunfire will do to them at 3 AM.

I don't worry much about bears anymore, since we camped in AZ and awoke to find 4" wide cat prints circling our soft-sided camper...

 

[BearBio]

I've camped for years in worse bear country, with only my backpacking tent and no gun. The best defense I have ever seen was a Maglite. Bears don't have particularly awesome vision and the bright light blinds them, they run from it and nobody gets hurt.

A pistol or shotgun will add some peace of mind, but in more than a year of being outside, I only had two encounters with a bear, both were peaceful. I carry bear spray as my primary defense, with a pistol or revolver as 2 legged defense.

In my experience with bears, this is the best advice. I would carry a large pistol in grizzly country only as a LAST resort.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

Air Horns do work pretty well for curious bears or bears you just happen to run across. I know lots of fishermen use those with good luck. It never hurts to have a gun handy some bears, and even mountain lions get a real investment in their lunch and if that happens to be you or a family member they may need to be shot off of dinner.

 

[AzRebel]

Air Horns do work pretty well for curious bears or bears you just happen to run across. I know lots of fishermen use those with good luck. It never hurts to have a gun handy some bears, and even mountain lions get a real investment in their lunch and if that happens to be you or a family member they may need to be shot off of dinner.

Around here the biggest threat is illegal immigrants and drug smugglers.

They did remove a bear a couple of weeks ago that was causing a bit of trouble about a mile from my house, but that same day they likely caught several hundred illegals in nearby areas.

Like the bears, most aren't bad to deal with, but you never know which one might be a problem. I'd just hate to run across a bad one like Rob Krentz did, and not be prepared for it.

I keep a gun handy for whatever might need shot.

Daryl

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

The last few years we've gotten way to many illegals interested more in gangs and drug related enterprise that most people realize. It's a legitimate concern and worth being prepared for. A little suspicion mixed in isn't bad either.

 

[Anonymous]

AZ Rebel,

I damn near moved to the Sierra Vista area a few years ago camped down that way in Bisbee and liked the area the thing that kept me away was the illegals running all over the place. I think its a shame the way our fed. gov. is refusing to do what they are sworn to do " protect the American people." I really admire your Gov. Brewer I hope NV finds the back bone to stand up to the feds. I want to thank everyone who responded to my questions sure gives me some stuff to think about.

Rich

 

[AzRebel]

AZ Rebel,

I damn near moved to the Sierra Vista area a few years ago camped down that way in Bisbee and liked the area the thing that kept me away was the illegals running all over the place. I think its a shame the way our fed. gov. is refusing to do what they are sworn to do " protect the American people." I really admire your Gov. Brewer I hope NV finds the back bone to stand up to the feds. I want to thank everyone who responded to my questions sure gives me some stuff to think about.

Rich

Hi Rich,

If you get down this way again, give me a heads up. Would love to meet another fellow forum member.

Like you, I support Governor Brewer. I think she's the best Governor Arizona's ever had, and I've been around long enough to have seen a few come and go. I was born in Bisbee, but it was a different place then with the mine running. I can still remember huge trucks driving round-n-round that pit to get to the bottom, and then back up with a load of ore. My dad worked in the Dallas Shaft, and was mostly underneath the pit.

If a war starts down here, I've a feeling my wife and I will move to her home state of Colorado. It would be one thing if it was just me, but I don't want to have her in a dangerous area if that happens.

Daryl

 

[Swampbilly]

The best way to avoid having uninvited guests of the four legged furry kind is food smell dicipline. If you cook something,, it's best to cook it away from the camper. Next,, dispose of ANY leftover or unused food items WELL away from the camper. (Properly of course.) Next,, store all unused food in tightly sealed containers,, and if you can,, in a bear bag suspended away from the camper,,!
Gettting my message,, keep things that smell away from the camper.

...and that means anything with an odor :


mouthwash
toothpaste
sunscreen

etc.

 

[Pal Val]

+1 to smell discipline. I camp frequently in a state park that has a large black bear population. Not long ago, a bear wandered into a Boy Scout troop's campsite and ripped up a tent and everything in it. The scoutmaster, an aquaintance, told me the kid had left a bag of potato chips hidden in his sleeping bag against all warnings. They were lucky that the night was clear and the troop had gone star-gazing.

When camping there, I put everything that smells, including the toiletries, in a metal box in the back of the pickup truck and lock it for the night. We've seen bears run right through the campsites there at night. I sleep with my .44mag Blackhawk next to my pillow. I've found that hanging a few rags dipped in ammonia around the campsite at night keeps the bears from going into our campsite. Bears have sensitive noses.

 

[jpickar]

What contender said is the best advice. A 357 will work in a situation like you have. A 12ga with slugs is better.

John


This grizzly was 100 yards from my house the other night when he went by my trail cam. Approx. 400lbs.
even a small 175lb black bear will get into most anything. I know from experiance!

 

[EnzNow]

I don't worry much about bears anymore, since we camped in AZ and awoke to find 4" wide cat prints circling our soft-sided camper...

We have illegals and bears... http://azstarnet.com/news/science/envir ... 4a4b2.html

http://www.kold.com/Global/story.asp?S=12632098

I'd still rather live here then California... :wink:

As far as a defensive shotgun...youtube saiga12...lol

 

[gak]

Mohavesam, I thought yours was maybe this story!
http://www.azcentral.com/community/chan ... k0609.html
About 200 lbs young'n, they figured he'd made his way down the Gila River drainage--then into the Mesa (east Phoenix metro) area.
http://wap.myfoxphoenix.com/w/main/story/11576192/

 

[John E Davies]

Here's how I look at bear risk::

Food discipline is fine, but the last guy to use your camping spot may have dumped food or dish water on the ground outside your door - how do you know for sure? You HAVE to assume that the bear will come to you, regardless of how you store your food and handle other odors.

If you are wrapped up in a sleeping bag, especially a snug mummy bag, there is no way you can effectively use a long gun.

If you fire any weapon that has an intense muzzle blast, like a .357 Mag, your ears will be severely damaged and you will regret it (assuming the bear doesn't have you for supper).

The flash will blind you for a while, so you only have one chance and one shot.

I usually keep a 12 gauge with Brenneke Black Magic Magnum slugs close by for daytime. I also have a Marlin 45-70 - either would be dandy for a big bear.

At night in the tent I have my Alaskan clone close by with .475 caliber 400 gr hard cast bullets hand loaded to SUBSONIC velocity (1035 fps in this case). Dealing with the noise is bad enough without adding a sonic crack.

If I am really concerned about bears (or a prowling mountain lion) I will sleep on the reclined front seat of my truck with the SRH close by. I do understand that if a brown bear wants me, he will peel open the truck as quickly as he would my tent, but I still sleep better.

Long guns like an 1895 Marlin or a 12 gauge shottie are the best against bears, but if you have limited mobility from being zipped up into a sleeping bag, you need a handgun with a big, fat, slow, hard, flat nosed bullet.

BTW: the Barnes XPB rounds are for smaller animals and two legged predators - I'm using the Federal factory load which is milder than the super hot Corbon load..

John Davies
Spokane WA

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

+1 to smell discipline.
When camping there, I put everything that smells, including the toiletries, in a metal box in the back of the pickup truck and lock it for the night. We've seen bears run right through the campsites there at night. I sleep with my .44mag Blackhawk next to my pillow. I've found that hanging a few rags dipped in ammonia around the campsite at night keeps the bears from going into our campsite. Bears have sensitive noses.

Good thoughts on the ammonia, I've not heard of anyone trying that. Something that has worked for me is, you can buy a D-cell strobe (single battery) like those you use attached to a live jacket (for water). They let out a pretty good flash and even with moose quaters hanging in trees near the camp we've not had a bear come into camp. Now that's brown bears, so I don't know how it would work with black bears, but I do like the idea of the rags with ammonia. For the most part I don't worry about it and have been lucky that I haven't had a bear come into camp to get into things. But we try to be very careful and keep a clean camp.