Broken Hammer Plunger; Is this a weak link in Ruger design?

[woodsy]

Since I was knee-high to a lever-action (60 years ago) I was drilled to never dry fire without something in the chamber. It can be a snap-cap, a rimfire turned a few degrees, whatever. I NEVER dry fire without something to absorb the force of the hammer/firing pin.

 

[Wrangler John]

My experience with Ruger Blackhawks and Super Blackhawks spans the entire period of their production. The only part that broke was the transfer bar in a Blackhawk. That is why I have a box of parts, including transfer bars, hammers and triggers, bolts, pins, screws, springs, firing pins - everything. A revolver that can't be dry fired is one that will go down the road or never be purchased in the first place. Practice is the key to developing skill, and dry firing is essential to trigger control and maintaining sight picture. The only handguns I won't dry fire are rimfires (although I do use fired cases as snap caps keeping an dented area of the rim under the firing pin) and the unlimited Wichita bolt action the manual of which specifically warns against dry firing. I have never had a Redhawk or Super Redhawk break any part.

 

[David Bradshaw]

This whole topic illustrates why it is good to strip, clean and lube a new firearm.

On dry fire, I agree with Welder hammering metal eventually leads to fatigue; note what steel-on-steel does to railroad tracks, hammers, anvils, bulldozer undercarriages, etc.

My preferred method of dry fire utilizes snap caps or fired casings, although I won't live long enough to count the times I've dry fired Ruger revolvers and, to a lesser extent, Smith & Wessons, including K-22s. Also high on that list: M1 Garand; Remington, Mauser, and Winchester bolt rifles, M1911, XP-100 pistol, Remington pump carbine/rifle, Dan Wesson.

The Freedom Arms M83 Casull revolver should not be dry fired. FA uses a firing pin retained by a spanner nut, for easy swapout. If you have a Model 83 with pre-spanner nut firing pin, you might as well send it in for retrofitting. Otherwise, do not snap on an empty chamber!

As noted the Wichita bolt rifles and pistols have very fast lock time, with hard spring and firing pin. Dry fire on a once-fired case or very stiff snap cap only. I prefer to dry fire on a fired case or snap cap specifically because it is closer to the feel of live fire.
David Bradshaw

 

[flatgate]

I take the time to "properly fit" the mechanism on the myriad of S.A. Rugers I shoot. Close inspection of the parts while they are still in the gun and also while they are on the bench will usually reveal a few areas that "need a little help".

JMHO,

flatgate

 

[Chris]

Wildhorse

Sounds like a fluke, stuff happens sometimes we cant explain why. Just refinished a very early MK I
target for a friend of mine, 45 + year old gun that was used extensively and all I wound up replacing was the rebound spring and the firing pin, it's been my experience that most Rugers are built like tanks and just take a beating and keep on performing.

Hawkeye

This works as is easily found in any hardware store.

Enjoy
Chris

 

[Ruger36]

I suspect dirt or rust might have been the problem, I have one old model that has been fired 10 to15 thousand times a year for the last 15 years But ive done some mods to it to make it last, I take it apart five or six times a summer to totally clean and inspect ,And I keep cleaning and lightly oiling it as I shoot . The plunger has to retract when the hammer is pulled back and when it falls. The critical time is when the hammer falls, the locking bolt gives when the hammer is pulled back but is rigid when the hammer falls.

 

[flatgate]

One addendum with respect to dry firing New Models. I ALWAYS proceed that process with insertion of the cylinder pin. I also eliminate "hammer pinch" of the transfer bar.
I've welded up hammers and made them into pseudo "three screws". I've made extended length hammer plungers that, when fitted properly, stop the "ringing of the cylinder" on a New Model. None of these modification have ever resulted in a broken hammer plunger. I've had a totally seized up action :roll: but never a broken hammer plunger....

Close inspection of Bill Ruger's designs can reveal all kinds of fun stuff......

JMHO,

flatgate

 

[shotbyspike]

Mine just broke from dry firing.

 

[Hondo44]

Much more likely it broke "while" dry firing or from firing "dry" (w/o enough lubrication).

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Funny that yours was a Bicentennial model. I bought a blued one in 1976, my first handgun, and shot many, many thousands of rounds through it. I had it out hunting, probaby 1990-91?, and the plunger broke while I was in the field. For some reason at that time, I think it was in the manual, Ruger had a star next to that part that they would only sell to a gunsmith. So I ordered one from a nearby shop, waited a month for it, only to find that either they had ordered or Ruger had sent the wrong part. Enough of that! I took a file and made a duplicate of the factory one out of a common nail. It worked great for many, many more shots.

Then, last year, I had another Single Six where the front sight had been filed down. I called Ruger Parts while at the range to order a new one and happened to think about the hammer plunger on my old friend. I told her the story about not being able to get one so many years ago since I wasn't a " gunsmith " and that I had made one out of a common nail and it was still working fine after 15 years but I might like to put a factory one in. Man, after she stopped laughing about that she said, "Hey, we'll send you 2 of them ... on us!" You know what...I still have my handmade one in that gun. I pulled out the nail plunger to replace it, but it looked good, so I polished it up real well with some 600 grit, gave a nice polish to the ends, lubed it, and put it back in. I hope I don't have to send the thing back to Ruger anytime soon. They would probably replace my "custom" part with a factory spec one! The timing on that one is as good as it gets. I think that revolver has, conservatively, over 70K rounds through it now if not more. (yeah, at least 2k a year)

If you keep them lubed up, they seem to work pretty well. It's the only one I've broken so far. But I do have a couple at the ready if one does ....and a box of common nails.

 

[Hondo44]

I never had an old model hammer plunger (.123") break, but I had one brake on one of the 1st new models (.091") I got. And I've replaced a couple for friends on new models.

As can be seen, the plunger diameter was reduced exactly 26% and the resulting thickness at the breaking point (the retention cut out) went from .078" to .050", a 36% reduction in the new model design.

The next new model I fix with a broken plunger will get the hammer hole drilled out and an old model size plunger installed.

 

[bullwhip12]

I have have 3 new models and have broken at least one in all 3. I have a pair of stainless ones and now have been paying closer attention as I am not sure if it is both or just one of them is eating a hammer plunger after a couple hundred dry firings (with snap caps). So I have replaced 4 of them between the 2 stainless pistols. I have lubed the fool out of it, ran a drill bit in the holes to debur, but it appears the plunger is rotating and binding up on the cross pin after firing (dry or regular). The cross pin usually just drops in but after it binds or the plunger breaks I have to beat it out of the hole. Then install a new plunger and pin (and it just drops in again). I am at a bit of a loss as to why this keeps happening.

 

[jlinz]

Bullwhip, what i found on two cases, when i beat the cross pin out the cross pin hole, it seemed to open up a little and a new pin would not fit snug. I think the pin moving around is not a good thing. I had a BFR come back from mag research for same issue and shortly after the plunger again began hanging up again as the cross pin was moving around. What I found seems to work so far is take a flat hard surface and hold the pin with needle nose pliers, then lightly hammer the end of the pin on something hard, like a large pair of pliers until one end increases in diameter a hair. If both ends increase while doing so, you can sand one end or dremel it to match the rest of the pin. Then carefully hammer the pin into the hole. You want to make sure the vast majority of the pin fits into the hole, and I think pushing the pin in from the side of the plunger is best for reiliabilty and prevent binding problems. Try to push it out by hand with another pin or small allen wrench with good amound of pressure, it if dont budge you're probably good. Then sand any XS pin off, if you do it right it should not be much to remove. Just make sure if you need to take the pin out again, push it out from the opposite side it went in on, else you'll be opening up the hole in the hammer even more. I think maybe thats part of the problem in some cases, not removing the cross pin correctly. You might have some luck with trying some loctite or ovaling out the cross pin as well. Id have a few spare pins around when you work on it. It would be nice to hear from some others on the forum on this topic as well.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Any dry firing I do is just to check function and is very limited.
I have not had a hammer plunger failure and I own and shoot a BUNCH of Ruger SA`s
I have not ever even heard of such a failure except over the internet and that has ,maybe,been two or three times in the last 10-15 years. I would not loose any sleep over it.

 

[Hondo44]

The plunger retaining pin is supposed to be a 'slip fit' not a 'press fit' and does not contribute to plunger breakage on Rugers IMO.

When I've replaced broken plungers and re-installed the 'slip fit' retaining pin, breakage has not reoccurred and therefore I see no correlation between the two. Some of the new model plungers will break and I attribute it to the reduced size as documented in my post above.

 

[jlinz]

I think it still depends on how loose the pin fits, if its flopping back and forth, i dont think its a good thing. As the pin length is the width of the hammer approximately, if theres side to side play of the hammer while its in the frame, it might be possible for the pin to work its way out the side opposite the hammer plunger, possibly misalign and jam the plunger and you've got a problem. I think thats what happened to me on occasion and maybe others. I'm sure theres some cases where this will never happen but all guns are different. The pins that ive taken out (not ones i put in) are difficult to remove and dont just slide out. That goes for ones installed on new hammer replacement hammer as well that i have seen. So sliding a new one in that I can see moving around while the hammer is in the frame concerns me. Not to mention frame to grip alignment in the hammer well is not always the best in that there can be a ledge for the pin to get caught on if its not captive. Just trying to get others opinions and make a few points.

I know from my last experience with my mag research BFR (a big blackhawk clone pretty much), that the pin that was hanging up was worn to a point on the side that was dragging on the frame on the side opposite the plunger. This meant to me it was rotating and dragging on the grip frame which stuck out a little in the hammer well. Eventually the pin would have misaligned and caused the hammer plunger to jam and/or break. It was only a matter of time in my opinion.

This is why i say, i like to see the pin go in from the plunger side of the hammer and be a little thicker on that side then smooth it off if needed, so it cannot go entirely through the hammer without a lot of force and for that matter cannot back out either because it will be hitting the frame while the gun is assembled. I have not studied if new hammers to see if they tend to put the pins in from one direction or not.

I would also agree on some of the points about the hammer plunger being a little on the flimsy side. The older, heavier dimensions I think would make more sense in my opinion.

 

[Cholo]

I understand how the hammer plunger could break if it doesn't operate smoothly. I've not had a hammer plunger break, but I have had one that was sticky and wouldn't lower the bolt if the hammer was thumbed down as opposed to being "fired", a mint OM SBH I'd just bought. Hondo was nice enough to tell me what to do and it works like a charm now. My plunger pin needed to be gently punched out. A friend and I high polished the plunger and pin, and worked the hole with the shank portion of a well fitted drill bit and jeweler's rouge. It turned out amazing!

I'll never buy a used Ruger SA without checking that the hammer plunger works smoothly without the cylinder in the gun. If I didn't check out this fine example, I have scored the cylinder for sure! :shock:

 

[cadillo]

I have a number of Old Models, which is what I normally find myself shooting and cleaning. I learned the hard way that while it is OK to cock the hammer of an Old Model with the loading gate open(something I often do with the cylinder out during cleaning), but it can be disaster with a New Model. Without thinking I did this with my SS Bisley, and bent the hammer plunger, which locked it all up. I called Ruger, and they sent me a new plunger and cross pin for free, but it took them about two weeks to put it in the mail.

Loading gate and cylinder latch are powered by the same spring, which can abide only one job at a time.

I LOVE my Old Models!

 

[Hondo44]

jlinz.

I forgot to welcome you to the forum!

Jim

 

[jlinz]

Thank you Jim. I have quite a few rugers and this looks like a great forum. Lots of experience and knowledge on here, looking forward to learning a lot.