Blackhawk/Pressure signs?

[gster]

Holy Canoly! I shot my .45Colt NM Blackhawk today. First time with Ruger only loads. 300 gr.XTP over 19.5 grns of H110. New Starline brass and standard/magnum wlp primers. Published data from my Hornady 8th edition says 17.9 to max of 21.7 of Win 296. So... are pressure signs with a revolver the same as anything else or are there exceptions when shooting RO loads? The brass looks fine but the primers are flattened. I can see the milling marks of the breech face on the primer from where they were driven into breech. Is this normal for RO loads? The first shot really took me by surprise. After that I got a firm grip on that sucker and had a blast. I was shooting at one of them disposable helium tanks at 40 yds. and hitting it.

 

[powder smoke]

I have some 300 XTP loaded up with 21.5 grns of 296 Stout loads
accurate but NO flattened primers these are near Max. They are
a handful tho. The case head looks normal.

Forgot to mention shooting these out of a NM Bisley BlackHawk 7.5. ps

 

[gster]

Powder Smoke, I like your avatar. Would you mind if I did one similar with my rig?

I have a pic on the way to Photo Bucket, I'll get it up here in a few minutes.

OK, Pic edited into first post.

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Have you checked your throat dimensions on that gun? They may need to be reamed .
That said, the edges of your primers are still rounded some so I don`t think the pressures are all that high. Did you have sticky/hard extraction? If not and the throats are at .452 or no tighter than .451 I would say you are good to go.

 

[OldePhart]

Those are showing some pressure signs but I wouldn't consider them "max" in a strong gun. As Chuck mentioned the shoulders are still rounded and also the firing pin strikes have not been pushed back. I've seen primers flattened so badly that the shoulders are flat and the firing pin dimple has been pushed almost completely back on some .44 mags a friend used to load for his Redhawk. I wouldn't load mine that hot, but I would load as hot or a little hotter than what you're seeing there without getting too worried about it. That's in a good solid Ruger revolver...a Rossi or the like...eh, not so much.

 

[gster]

Have you checked your throat dimensions in that gun?? They may need to be reamed .
That said, the edges of your primers are still rounded some so I don`t think the pressures are all that high. Did you have sticky/hard extraction? If not and the throats are at .452 or no tighter than .451 I would say you are good to go.

The brass fell out of the cylinider as I rotated it. I can push a .451 fmj-rn through with a bit of resistance. Thanks.G.

 

[okie44]

Looks fine to me. Sticky brass is a sure sign to watch for.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

My experience shooting a 44 magnum shows those to be normal. ...and if the brass fell out you are good to go.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Hi,

I'm not gonna downplay the idea of sticky cases as a pressure indicator, but will add a caveat about relying too heavily on that method:

If you're using a Ruger single action, which, of course is the case in this thread, make sure your chambers don't look like they were machined with a rock! When I bought my .357 Bisley, the fellow in the gunshop gave me a piece of advice. It was to "Take a 'Ruger tool' with you to the range until you get those chambers smoothed out!"

I asked him what a "Ruger tool" was. He laughed as he told me "A short length of dowel rod and a small mallet, to knock the cases out of the cylinder."

Since he'd been one of the pistolsmiths in my ol' gunsmith boss' shop before he "retired" to just selling guns, I figured he might know what he was talking about. Turns out he did: I knocked FACTORY .38 Spls out until I'd spent considerable time smoothing and polishing the chambers! After several thousand rounds, .38s now drop right out, as do most .357s, just like they ALL should have done right out of the box. So I gave my "Ruger tool" to my brother in law to use with his new .357 BH, .45 Colt New Vaquero (it's on a strict diet of SAAMI only loads) and one other Ruger SA. It's done a lot of work in his hands, too!

Ruger probably saved fifty cents by not burnishing the chambers of their SAs like they do their DAs. And they're not gonna go broke cuz I won't buy another new one for that reason, but I'm more than happy to share my experiences and warnings with people who ask. And since those come under the heading of "No, I would not recommend this product to a friend" we see in so many product reviews, it sure seems a penny wise and pound foolish decision.

Back to other pressures signs...

Rick C

 

[GP100man]

I don`t rely on primers extensively to read pressure signs , they`re brass & that brass can vary in hardness !

Take your loads & fire em with Federal primers, then a true CCI 350 mag primer.

I bet those primers in the pic are WW LP for std or mag loads ??? Those are 1 step above softness in my experience .

I rely more on reading pressure signs by measuring the case head just above the rim, this has to be done on NEW brass & venier mic. Also when building upper loads a chronograph is an indispensable tool for insight of whats happening pressure wise.

I`m older now & super blasters are very little of my range time & the big guns are mostly reserved for hunting now.

I mainly use the GPs with NOEs 358429 & the 360-180 rnfp at 1k or something less like grits over a lite charge for carpenter bees !!

Have fun , Be safe !

GP

 

[Jimbo357mag]

. Also when building upper loads a chronograph is an indispensable tool for insight of whats happening pressure wise.

That is probably the only way to tell for sure if you don't have a ballistics lab handy. You can't get more velocity out of a load without applying more pressure. If you are getting more velocity than the data says you should then you might be over pressurizing. If you are closely following the data, using the correct bullets and primers, and getting good results with your brass, then you are probably ok. You can go up or down on the load a little to see if that makes a difference with anything. As long as you stay below Max on the load data you will probably be fine.

Seriously I have seen pictures where the primers were really flat and filled the primer pockets edges and you could hardly read the headstamp on the brass. That's hott. :roll: :roll:

 

[powder smoke]

Powder Smoke, I like your avatar. Would you mind if I did one similar with my rig?

I have a pic on the way to Photo Bucket, I'll get it up here in a few minutes.

OK, Pic edited into first post.

Have fun more photos of rigs the better. ps

 

[Bucks Owin]

. Also when building upper loads a chronograph is an indispensable tool for insight of whats happening pressure wise.

That is probably the only way to tell for sure if you don't have a ballistics lab handy.

What brand of chrono do you use?

Inquiring minds etc... :wink:

 

[gster]

. Also when building upper loads a chronograph is an indispensable tool for insight of whats happening pressure wise.

That is probably the only way to tell for sure if you don't have a ballistics lab handy.

What brand of chrono do you use?

Inquiring minds etc... :wink:

Pro Chrono... I guess I'd better get to using it more.
Never really used it for making plinking loads. I know I know. I'm getting serious about this stuff now.

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Pro Chrono... I guess I'd better get to using it more.
Never really used it for making plinking loads. I know I know. I'm getting serious about this stuff now.

Don't worry about BucksOwin. I think he was trying to take a jab at me. Goes way back. :roll:

 

[Bucks Owin]

I'll just add that some Ruger .45LC chambers are BIG and may not show much sticky extraction. I have run one heavy bullet/W-296 load through mine hot enough to "peen" the cyl pin in the frame but the empty cases still pretty much fell out...

(Bless that Blackhawk strength... )

Maybe "someday" I'll acquire and ream a SBH cylinder out to .480" for my .45 like Ruger should've done in the first place! :?

In the meantime, my chrono is my friend. :wink:

 

[frankenfab]

Soft primers and a rough recoil plate.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Soft primers and a rough recoil plate.

Huh?!? :shock: