Blackhawk Not grouping

[mtndew]

I recently purchased a 50th Anniver. Blackhawk .44 magnum. I hated the small grip, so I ordered a custom over size grip that fits well and makes it a pleasure to shoot. I also put a 24 hammer spring(increase from stock, i thought the hammer fell a little slow, requiring a long follow through) and a reduced power trigger spring. (I also tryed shooting it stock, same result as below)

I just can't get the thing to group better than 8 inches at 25 yards. I have tryed every stance and grip technique, no luck. I have tryed shooting off bags with no better result. I have only one other pistol and its a semi auto 9 mm, which I don't have a problem getting to group, but this is my first revolver.

Could there be something wrong with the gun, any know problems or something to look for?

Could someone give me some direction with shooting technique?

I don't know any revolver shooters, so I can't have a pro. try my Ruger and see if he could make it group, which would be the best way to troubleshoot my problem.

 

[mtndew]

Forgot to mention I tryed 3 differet brands of ammo, all 240 grain. Then I reloaded my own, all 240 SWC, with three different powder combos., all shot about the same.

 

[mtndew]

I see an article on the internet suggesting to replace the base pin with Belt Mountain Base Pin, is this a problem area, or can you damage the pin somehow?

 

[Hondo44]

I see an article on the internet suggesting to replace the base pin with Belt Mountain Base Pin, is this a problem area, or can you damage the pin somehow?

Some love it. It's a waste of money to me.

Have someone else shoot the gun that's used to single actions and can shoot them well. Have you shot it with factory ammo? If none of those improve it, measure the cylinder throats and report back with measurements. Are there any visible dings in the barrel bore crown at the muzzle?

Yes it could be a factory problem but haven't heard of problems with this model, except cylinder throats on Rugers in general.

 

[mtndew]

I see an article on the internet suggesting to replace the base pin with Belt Mountain Base Pin, is this a problem area, or can you damage the pin somehow?

Some love it. It's a waste of money to me.

Have someone else shoot the gun that's used to single actions and can shoot them well. Shoot it from a bench rest and see if you do better. Have you shot it with factory ammo? If none of those improve it, measure the cylinder throats and report back with measurements.

I have shot with factory ammo. I have shot from a rest, no difference. I don't know a good SA shooter. As far as measuring throats, I did this, my lead bullets are .431 diameter, I can push a bullet through all throats with a slight amount of pressure from a pencil, they seem to be close to each other in fit. I do need to mark each cylinder throat and shoot from the same cylinder throat to prove if there is a problem there but didn't read about that idea until tonight.

 

[Hondo44]

The throats sound good. One chamber at a time is a good idea. Let us know. But it's starting to look like a bad gun or some of the chambers. Do any of the bullets keyhole (go thru the target sideways)?

 

[contender]

mtndew,,, since you don't know any revolver shooters,, maybe you could post where you live & maybe someone here can get together with you & help?

Next, since this is your first revolver,, and you are getting the same results from all types of ammo & all kinds of YOUR shooting methods,, I'd suggest you truly find somebody to help you before blaming the gun. Revolvers & semi-autos are two different types of guns that require a bit of different shooting grip, etc.

 

[cas6969]

Definitely someone else try it. I've mentioned my friend a few times, shoots autos well, shoots double actions well, can't hit beans with a single action.


Next things to check…. slug the bore and see if there's a barrel choke anywhere.
Make/buy a range rod and check alignment of the barrel and chambers.

 

[mtndew]

The throats sound good. One chamber at a time is a good idea. Let us know. But it's starting to look like a bad gun or some of the chambers. Do any of the bullets keyhole (go thru the target sideways)?

They do not keyhole. Thanks.

 

[mtndew]

mtndew,,, since you don't know any revolver shooters,, maybe you could post where you live & maybe someone here can get together with you & help?

Next, since this is your first revolver,, and you are getting the same results from all types of ammo & all kinds of YOUR shooting methods,, I'd suggest you truly find somebody to help you before blaming the gun. Revolvers & semi-autos are two different types of guns that require a bit of different shooting grip, etc.

I would love for somebody else to give it a go that new SA revolvers. I live in Rapid City, SD.

 

[mtndew]

Definitely someone else try it. I've mentioned my friend a few times, shoots autos well, shoots double actions well, can't hit beans with a single action.


Next things to check…. slug the bore and see if there's a barrel choke anywhere.
Make/buy a range rod and check alignment of the barrel and chambers.

I didn't slug the bore but this is what I did. I took a .431 bullet that I use for my reloads, and put it down the barrel from the front sight end pushed it through with a wood dowel and brass hammer, didn't feel it hang up anywhere, it pushed through pretty easy once the bullet was started and formed to the rifling.

 

[SAJohn]

Check for a loose rear site.

 

[JWhitmore44]

Check for a loose rear site.

Kind of what I was thinking. The screw for the rear sight needs to set down in it "pocket". The blade part of the rear sight pushes against a spring for the left/right adjustment. The blade shouldn't move very easily. Just some thoughts.

 

[contender]

Rapid City SD huh? With Black Hills ammo, Black Hills Shooting Supply, Jack First Gun Shop, a few stock makers & gosh knows what else in that area SURELY you can get out & find a shooter to help. Heck, Sturgis isn't too far away, & Cor-Bon is there. May I suggest you get out & do some shopping & asking around because I had no problem finding shooters when I visited that area.

If you can't, PM me & I'll give you the name & phone number of a friend in Rapid City that can help steer you in that direction.

 

[bigboredad]

I'm not trying to be mean and so don't take this the wrong way. We all have been in your shoes at one time or another. But the gun is most likely not the cause. I see this at the range where I shoot almost every time I shoot and that 2-3 times a week. Everyones first reaction is the gun is junk now I agree there are lemons but there is way more shooters that want to believe they are better shooters than they really are.

I'd say buy or reload down to .44 special levels and when you are not able to get to the range dry fire a lot I mean a lot not just 10-15 times I talking while sitting watching tv dry fire when you rare bored dry fire. When you don't want to dry fire. Everyday every chance you get and when you do get to go shooting dry fire a couple times around the cylinder before you load up. That should help your trigger control and muscle memory

 

[RKBA4CA]

What I did to teach my kids to squeeze the trigger on a rifle was this: rubber-banded a laser pointer to the barrel and told them to dry fire and make sure laser dot did not move on a wall. Try that with your revolver and see the movement of the dot, it might tell you what's up.

 

[rugerguy]

many and all good points above.....I'd suggest trying to alter ,change YOUR grip, and hand position...place the gun more "in line" with your forearm, less trigger around and through the trigger guard...most folks just grab the gun like an axe (plow) handle and blaze away..........move your position, put only the pad of your trigger finger, on the trigger...cock the hammer back with your "off hand"....when you cock it back and shoot like a cowboy, this changes the grip position EVERY time.......works for "defense",but NOT for accuracy or trying to get a 'group'......

 

[joelo]

Could someone give me some direction with shooting technique?

-Get set up as if you were going to shoot for groups at 15-25 yards (clear-visible target, sandbags, etc)
-Don't load the gun.
-Grip it as you have been doing it.
-Dry fire.

Dry fire it focusing only on your front sight, if the front sight "moves" when you fire, then it is something with you. If the sights don't move while you are dry firing, it means you are shooting it "properly" and the problem is gun related.

 

[Hondo44]

The longer barrel than you are used to can be a contributing factor. They can be a little more difficult to hold steady and do tend to wobble around a bit which will throw your shots. I have always been able to shoot a short barrel better than a long one.

Next time you go to the range, only load every other cylinder. When you snap on an empty chamber, if the gun moves, that will tell you everything about your trigger control. Flinching or jerking the trigger is the single most common problem when shooting a magnum for every person I've ever taught to shoot.

 

[xtratoy]

mtndew,,, since you don't know any revolver shooters,, maybe you could post where you live & maybe someone here can get together with you & help?

Next, since this is your first revolver,, and you are getting the same results from all types of ammo & all kinds of YOUR shooting methods,, I'd suggest you truly find somebody to help you before blaming the gun. Revolvers & semi-autos are two different types of guns that require a bit of different shooting grip, etc.

I would love for somebody else to give it a go that new SA revolvers. I live in Rapid City, SD.

My sister lives there but would be no help to you as far as shooting a 44 mag! :shock: :lol:

 

[Hugh]

Could someone give me some direction with shooting technique?

-Get set up as if you were going to shoot for groups at 15-25 yards (clear-visible target, sandbags, etc)
-Don't load the gun.
-Grip it as you have been doing it.
-Dry fire.

Dry fire it focusing only on your front sight, if the front sight "moves" when you fire, then it is something with you. If the sights don't move while you are dry firing, it means you are shooting it "properly" and the problem is gun related.

Concur. I dry fire while in my big chair. A light switch about 30 feet away; front sight in focus, rear sight and light switch not so clear. Same procedure for double actions including 3.16" SP-101 and single actions. It has helped me and it may help you and others.

 

[flatgate]

If you get really desperate I'd strongly suggest you contact Mr. Wes Dakota. He's in your area (RCSD) and, IMHO, the damnest best doggone "straight shooter" I've EVER seen. He's a member here on R.F. and may see this thread.

Sincerely,

flatgate

 

[Ken ONeill]

I agree. I thought the same yesterday, but hated to "volunteer" him for a project.

 

[bigboredad]

If you get really desperate I'd strongly suggest you contact Mr. Wes Dakota. He's in your area (RCSD) and, IMHO, the damnest best doggone "straight shooter" I've EVER seen. He's a member here on R.F. and may see this thread.

Sincerely,

flatgate

I thought you were the bestest doggone straight shooter of bigbore ruger single actions there ever was. Now I have to rethink my hero positioning :wink:

 

[10X]

I didnt read this whole thread so......Some revolvers just dont like lead bullets...having said that , sometimes there are things you can do to help....I myself have a GP-100 in the 6'' barrel...this gun is a absolute tack driver with jacketed bullets , I get 1/2 -5/8 inch groups at 25yds....if I try lead bullets my groups go to
1 3/4 or so......I have not shot it at 100yds yet but shot it at 50yds today ...2 - 5 shot groups into right at 1'' and 1 at a 1 1/8'' ......I put a empty skoal can on a fence post at about 75's and hit it first shot......but lead bullets in this gun suck....you can have the cylinder throats reamed....and have the forceing cdone worked one....

 

[cadillo]

I couldn't agree more. During a career in Law Enforcement I started out with double action revolvers, and later transitioned to semi-autos, both of which I shot well. When I took up single action shooting, I was a babe in the woods. I had to completely relearn grip, trigger control, follow through, etc. It took me quite a while and a lot of shooting, but I'm now coming around.

The best thing I did to help my single action shooting was the acquisition and heavy use of a Ruger Old Model Single Six. This is where I learned and often brush up on my trigger control. The fact that this fellow is using a .44 indicates to me that he is the issue rather than the gun. Not a criticism, just an observation founded in personal experience.

I'm not trying to be mean and so don't take this the wrong way. We all have been in your shoes at one time or another. But the gun is most likely not the cause. I see this at the range where I shoot almost every time I shoot and that 2-3 times a week. Everyones first reaction is the gun is junk now I agree there are lemons but there is way more shooters that want to believe they are better shooters than they really are.

I'd say buy or reload down to .44 special levels and when you are not able to get to the range dry fire a lot I mean a lot not just 10-15 times I talking while sitting watching tv dry fire when you rare bored dry fire. When you don't want to dry fire. Everyday every chance you get and when you do get to go shooting dry fire a couple times around the cylinder before you load up. That should help your trigger control and muscle memory

 

[Hondo44]

cadillo, Best advice yet!

mtndew,
After 55 years of shooting I always start my shooting sessions with a 22, especially if it's been awhile since I last shot. It's the best possible way to 'tune up' your trigger pull before dealing with the noise and recoil of anything bigger. Pick up a used Ruger .22 and develope your SA skills including trigger pull. I just got back from the range and my buddy was getting lousy results with his 44 mag that he has shot very well over several years.

But even he was flinching. I loaded the gun for him without him seeing it and I left two chambers empty. The flinch was so evident when he dropped the hammer on the two empty chambers. His next cylinder full were all in the center!