Benefits for doing transfers for foreign nationals

[RoninPA]

Some of you know (if not you do now ) I am located just a few miles from the Penn State University main campus (University Park) and I am pretty well known by the local foreign national students as the gun dealer who will take the time to do firearms transfers for them. They come into the US on an F1 visa which allows them to get a hunting license and to buy firearms.

I make a some money on the transfers and/or special orders (and they aren't afraid to spend dad's money). Then when they graduate, many times they come back to me to sell the guns they bought (on consignment), or to do a private party transfer, or to sell outright to me.

Just had one of these happen, student has graduated, was leaving the state in less than two weeks so was looking to sell his Glock (G-19 Gen 4, 3 magazines, hard case with everything that came originally, 1 extra Glock 32 round magazine, and a nice Glock branded soft carrying case.)

I did the transfer to him originally in mid Dec. 2014 and by the looks of it the gun has never been shot (no wear on the feed ramp, no wear on the magazines, can still see the original grease from the factory when you remove the slide). Many times them getting firearms is sort of a "status" symbol or something like that but I do have a few that are really serious about the firearms they buy and shoot, but apparently not this time.

We talked a bit and consignment was out, he wanted to sell it as quickly as possible. He said make him an offer. I told him I'd give him $250 right now. He accepted!! I paid him and he and his girl friend left.

I think I did ok.

I think I am going to Cerakote it a two tone color and then decide if I want to sell it or not.

 

[protoolman]

wow! pretty nice buy for an as new gun.If it's in good shape I would sell it and definitely not Ceracote it. The spray paint finish would just devalue it.

 

[coach]

While your cerakoting looks amazing just selling a like new gun and accessories seems like a good way to make a decent profit. Gotta love students not afraid to spend Daddy’s money.

 

[wunbe]

Does the background check ever cause denials?

I wonder what info we have on foreign students? Were they known to be terrorist wannabes/site users at home? Do we even check with their home country authorities?

If not, sounds like an incident/disaster waiting to happen.

wunbe

 

[gramps]

I am sure Ron goes by the book, and he is able to size a person up. If Ron does it, I am OK with it. Good score Ron!
gramps

 

[RoninPA]

Does the background check ever cause denials?

I wonder what info we have on foreign students? Were they known to be terrorist wannabes/site users at home? Do we even check with their home country authorities?

If not, sounds like an incident/disaster waiting to happen.

wunbe

The foreign nationals go through the same background check as all PA residents go through when buying a handgun (which includes a NICS check). PLUS, the PA State Police (PSP) Firearms Unit contacts the INS and the INS does their own background check and responds back to the PSP. Only after the PSP has been given the green light do they call me and give me the approval number. No firearm, NONE, leaves my shop with a customer until the PSP has given me the approval. I have never yet had a denial on a foreign national. They are completely vetted before being allowed to come to the US to study. Also, with the costs involved with them coming to the US to study, they typically are not from communist China, they mainly come from capitalist China, their families have MONEY.

 

[RoninPA]

To all that don't understand Cerakote -

Cerakote is not just any old rattle can spray paint, it is a two part mixture that requires extensive preparation for it to be done correctly.

Any firearm (other than collectible firearms) that have been Cerkoted properly will not lose any value, most firearms that are Cerakoted correctly will actually gain some value.

If you see a new firearm being sold by a major manufacturer (Ruger, SIG, S&W, Savage, Mossberg, Remington, Colt, Taurus, different AR manufacturers, etc., etc.) that are not blued (or black), or anodized (typically aluminum parts like the barrel shroud of Rugers "colored" 22/45's), those are all Cerakoted. If the major manufacturers are using Cerakote on their products then that speaks for itself in the quality of the coating (In My Opinion).

If I decide to sell the Glock, I will not Cerakote it. If I keep it for myself, then I will probably do something with it. If that happens I'll be sure to post the pictures here.

 

[wunbe]

Ron,

I am not asking about or questioning your role in the sales.

I was asking if the govt guys who advise you -- thumbs up or down -- on arms sales have any reliable way to check out the buyer in his home country. For foreign students here their local record in the US should be pretty skimpy if not non-existent.

As for the efficacy of clearances abroad prior to getting a foreign student visa, that has a checkered record as demonstrated in the numbers of foreigners with higher US educations prominent in Islamic terrorist circles. And the US Embassy has no real way to sort out the lambs from the sheep in many countries where bribery, influence peddling, and rampant incompetence are very real factors in local vetting. The record of zero turn downs in your store is not comforting.

Part of the problem also lies here in the US where colleges and universities increasingly press for leniency in admittance of foreign students because they depend more and more on them to fill entry classes and pay through the nose. Here in DC reps from the schools make the rounds of foreign embassies and US govt offices all the time pressing for increased numbers of cash-rich applicants from abroad. For many higher institutions it is the major growth funding option now.

wunbe

 

[RSIno1]

In Commiefornia you can't get a Gen 4 - as they are not on the safe handgun list. They go for $750-900 in private party sales. Forget any mag over 10 rounds too.

 

[RoninPA]

Ron,

I am not asking about or questioning your role in the sales.

I was asking if the govt guys who advise you -- thumbs up or down -- on arms sales have any reliable way to check out the buyer in his home country. For foreign students here their local record in the US should be pretty skimpy if not non-existent.

As for the efficacy of clearances abroad prior to getting a foreign student visa, that has a checkered record as demonstrated in the numbers of foreigners with higher US educations prominent in Islamic terrorist circles. And the US Embassy has no real way to sort out the lambs from the sheep in many countries where bribery, influence peddling, and rampant incompetence are very real factors in local vetting. The record of zero turn downs in your store is not comforting.

Part of the problem also lies here in the US where colleges and universities increasingly press for leniency in admittance of foreign students because they depend more and more on them to fill entry classes and pay through the nose. Here in DC reps from the schools make the rounds of foreign embassies and US govt offices all the time pressing for increased numbers of cash-rich applicants from abroad. For many higher institutions it is the major growth funding option now.

wunbe

I understand what you are saying, and it IS a concern of all gun dealers who sell/transfer guns to foreign national people in the US. That said, we (gun dealers) can only go by what the .gov (local, state and federal) tells us.

Here's a thought - does the manager of a Home Depot, have, or is directed to by law, to have anything built into your system that raises a flag when anyone buys more than a couple of bags of fertilizer? I'm guessing, I really don't know, but probably not. And, does Home Depot make people buying fertilizer go through a background check before they can purchase it? Probably not.

As for the record of no denials in my store - I have been in this location since 1997 (when I retired from the USAF) and have had just 2 denials in over 8000 transactions. One was an official denial from the PSP and one was a denial I did, the buyer raised too many red flags and I nixed the sale (I know it would have been a straw purchase had I completed the transfer).

Also, the amount of sales/transfers I do with foreign nationals is less than 1% of my business. I average about 10 foreign nationals that I do business with, that takes into account that some leave and some arrive during the years, but the count stays to about 10 people. I get to know them pretty well in most cases as they buy and sell pretty frequently and use me to do the transactions. Many get something, keep it for a few months and then sell it and get something different (like they grow weary of the "toy(s)" they have and want something different). Most times these guns they buy are so slightly used that you could/can class them as LNIB.

I have developed a pretty good gut feeling about people from being in this business. Gun dealers I know react to the little things that are said/body language by customers and most that have been in business for a few years aren't going to sell/transfer a firearm if they don't feel right about it.


Your concerns ARE legitimate in this day and age and I understand what you are saying. Gun dealers, myself included, don't want firearms to get into the wrong hands, but we have to face facts, sometimes they do. The only way they won't is to destroy all firearms and never produce any more. That said, the bad guys would then just move to some other weapon. Gun dealers use the resources they are directed to by laws and their gut feelings/training/experience to try to weed out the bad guys, you really can't do any more than that.

Edit to add: Almost forgot, all of the foreign nationals I have dealt with/currently deal with who are going to Penn State are not here for undergraduate degrees, they are here pursuing PhD's. All of them also have social security numbers because they are teaching assistants and get paid so that is another .gov entity that has eyes on them (for what it's worth). Many do not immediately go back to China, they get jobs here in the states and must apply for the visa that allows them to work in the US for a certain many years. I know of several who will be/have gone to jobs that will require an extensive background check (aerospace industry) but we know that it is probably just to get more experience to take back to China.

 

[Acorn]

Ron, how long does it take to get the OK on foreign nationals?

 

[RoninPA]

Ron, how long does it take to get the OK on foreign nationals?

I have had it take as little as 1/2 hour or as long as 2 days. When I did my first one about 7 years ago, it typically took about a day if done during the week, 2 days if called in on a Saturday or Sunday. The PSP and the Feds have gotten better over the years and I'd say that the average now is about 1-3 hours during the week, weekends it's a crap shoot, could be fast or slow, depends on the Feds. The PICS operator gets my phone number and calls me back when the approval comes in. Then I get the number or not depending on the time of day. If it's after about 8pm, I wait until the next day. If earlier, I get the number and call the customer to come and pick up the gun and pay me.