Bedtime Thoughts.... What distance to zero a pistol?

[thinckley]

Call them bedtime thoughts, shower thoughts, whatever. Those random thoughts that seem to happen when you are relaxed, or trying to be. Sometimes, before you know it, your brain is on overdrive and you can't shut it off. This happened to me last night.

Zeroing a rifle is so basic as to be mindless. You either zero for a standard distance, i.e. 100 yds, 200 yds, etc. or you use MPBR and zero based on that, this might mean a near zero of 27 yards and 4" high at 100 yards, but you get the gist.

Pistols though.... Not competition target pistols, but your personal defense or EDC gun, what distance do you zero at? Do you actually zero or just line up windage? These are the thoughts that were running through my head last night as I was trying to fall asleep.

To clarify, I only practice point and shoot with my PD and EDC. I'm not aiming....

 

[RoninPA]

For my personal defense/EDC handguns (I have several and carry the one that fits what I am doing), I zero it at 15-20 yards. If you use it and the target (bad guy) is farther than 15-20 yds, an over zealous DA might just charge you with a crime, asking, "Why didn't you just run away"? If zeroed at 15 yds, you're good to go at shorter distances and can probably still hit center body mass at 25-40 yards (but I have not tested that theory - yet, I guess I need to take it out to the range and see).

 

[thinckley]

If you use it and the target (bad guy) is farther than 15-20 yds, an over zealous DA might just charge you with a crime, asking, "Why didn't you just run away"? If zeroed at 15 yds, you're good to go at shorter distances and can probably still hit center body mass at 25-40 yards

I tend to agree with this... I was leaning towards 7-10 yards.... but still not sure if I would do anything other than adjust drift....

 

[Dan in MI]

I haven’t put a lot of thought or testing to it, but my average practice distance with my carry guns is 25 yards. After cutting my teeth in silhouette 25 always seems close.

But now I have something to play with when the snow clears. What is the POI difference from 10-30 with a 25 zero.

 

[bobski]

center mass/15yds.........

any adjustment between 15 to 25yds is so minut'e its not serious enough to worry. 50yds you may need a click up and one click L&R for a windy day.

as they say: lights up, sites up. lights down, sites down.

 

[s4s4u]

25 yards has always seemed a good number to me. Most pistol caliber/rimfire cartridges will reach their apex at about that distance and will still be "in the zone" out to 50 - 60 yards. Anything between the muzzle and 50 yards will be within 2" of POI, and that's close enough for me. This is with iron sights, optics that sit higher might be better off with a more distant zero. My 45 Colt scoped Bisley is zeroed @ 50 yards.

 

[thinckley]

25 yards has always seemed a good number to me. Most pistol caliber/rimfire cartridges will reach their apex at about that distance and will still be "in the zone" out to 50 - 60 yards. Anything between the muzzle and 50 yards will be within 2" of POI, and that's close enough for me. This is with iron sights, optics that sit higher might be better off with a more distant zero. My 45 Colt scoped Bisley is zeroed @ 50 yards.

Scoped is completely different, as is the usage. I'm not using my SBH Hunters as EDC. I do carry an SBH PD Woods gun, but not scoped.

For a close-in, EDC/PD gun.... I don't know if zeroing is necessary, other than initially checking function, ammo, groups.

 

[peachhead]

Depends on what it is. Most everything I zero at 25yds. There are some that just don't work that way. Snubbies, smaller semi autos, go to 15. Also depends on who is shooting, we may start at 7 and work our way out.

 

[thinckley]

I am going to be taking my 1911's to the range on Thursday. Planning to function test some new ones, but practice Mozambique drills with my nightstand gun and my backup. I'll see how it goes and post a range report.

 

[Delbert]

Having a CCW permit for many years, the instructors do their tests at 7yds (21 feet) if this is the gun you would carry for EDC. They say this is the minimum distance to thwart a BG from becoming TOO CLOSE for attack and be safe. That's also them with a knife and not a gun. I'm sure the gun caliber also plays into this, since a "methed up" person wouldn't even stop at such a small round compared to somebody being shot with a 45LC, where the heavier caliber has more knock down energy. Person might live, but I bet they'll change their lifestyle.

However, for an everyday plinker with a gun that's only got a 4-6" barrel, I'd think that 10-15 yds is very capable, but guns with very short barrels, such as a derringer range of 2-6 feet due to poor hand/wrist control, or a good ole 38spl snubnose with 2" barrel, I'd only do shots at maybe max of 10-25 feet to keep the best center of mass shots without looking like a shotgun trigger was pulled.

Funny thing is all the adrinalin surging through your body. All that training will go out the window. Just look at police and the stories you may of heard about their shootings of perps and the missing they've done before one bullet actually hits and drops/slows them down enough to get control of situation.

 

[Jeepnik]

I am in the process of putting RDS on those handguns that a use them. I'm sighting in at 25 yds. Mostly because the indoor range I use is a max 25 yds.
I figure if I'm on at 25 yds I am minute of critter for closer and a bit further out.

 

[Mobuck]

The distance between boreline and sight plane is so small that short range (5 feet to 15 yards) vertical zero is moot. Horizontal alignment is far more important.
It's good to know where your vertical alignment is but seldom important. IMHO

 

[Laserbait]

Unless the pistol has a scope, I zero at 10 yards.

 

[s4s4u]

Scoped is completely different, as is the usage. I'm not using my SBH Hunters as EDC. I do carry an SBH PD Woods gun, but not scoped.

For a close-in, EDC/PD gun.... I don't know if zeroing is necessary, other than initially checking function, ammo, groups.

As I said, optics may require a more distant zero. I like 25 yards for irons because I know that anything between the muzzle and 25 yards will be within an inch of POA, as will anything from 25 yards to 50 yards.

A 10 yard zero is fine for close up, as is a 7 yard zero or a 3 yard zero, but you are going to have some significant POI/POA issues further out. From muzzle to 10 yards or from muzzle to 25 yards the difference is insignificant. I like to know where my stuff it hitting at distance because you never know when you may need to make an accurate shot at distance.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

The 3" Taurus .44 Special in my nightstand is "zeroed" at about twelve yards because that's the distance available in my backyard "range" . . . and I figure it's way OK for any shot required inside our house.

Years ago I shot a lot more and at longer distances, and expected my Ruger single actions to make frequent hits at 100 yards. Most would do it on my good days, but I never shot at critters beyond fifty yards . . . hopefully closer.

 

[Bear Paw Jack]

Years ago if someone had a knife and were 21 feet away, you were good to draw. The problem was/is you have to be talking being outside because you have to have room to back up. You don’t have that in most houses. Now many departments are going to 30 feet, it’s faster to run forward with a knife than back up with someone running at you.
With many of guns, you are talking fixed sights so you are talking trying different ammo to see what hits closest to poa.

 

[Mobuck]

"but your personal defense or EDC gun, what distance do you zero at?"
IMHO: This eliminates/precludes much of the conversation pertaining to ranges beyond 20-25 yards.

 

[usmc69]

I usually sight my pistols for 15 yards for target shooting. I shoot my home defense pistol at 7 & 15 yards variously. If I have to use it in the house, generally I do not worry about the sights adjustment. As long as the problem is in front of the pistol in the house I do not see the sense in lining up the sight. The FBI called that "Instinct Point" shooting. In most situations that is all the you will be able to do. Taking time to aim, may give the DA something to build a case on.........

 

[XUSNORDIE]

My EDC pistols (and a revolver) and home defense pistol don't have adjustable sights and I've never had the need to move the rear either way. From my military small arms instructor days I have 15 yards drilled in my head. Every time I buy a new defensive type handgun the first time I fire it I shoot the old basic 30 round watchstander COF . But after that it's mostly drills at 10 yds or starting at 25 and walking back in increments to 5yds. Sometimes FTS drills just for fun.

My Son began the ECS course (Expeditionary Combat Skills) this week. Handgun (M18) phase starts tomorrow. I can't wait to hear what new drills have been implemented into the curriculum. They shoot the basic marksmanship qualification on FRI which is an improvement over what we taught as basic in the 80s (all 25yd). Now it's at 7, 10, 15 and 25 both strong and week hand.

But "zeroing" never comes to mind on those guns.

 

[Sam Summey]

My accuracy goal to keep 100% of a box (50 rounds) on a 8 1/2" x 11" sheet of paper at 15-25 yards. It is not the firearm that needs "zeroing" it is the shooter that needs "zeroing". Train the finger and the mind to perform repeatably. I was completely satisfied when, last Saturday, I discharged the last box of 50/45 Colt my late son loaded with my Ruger Bisley Vaquero. The result was 100%. God Bless you Cliff.

 

[375hh1973]

My carry guns, I make sure I can hit what I need to at 10-15 yds.

Hunting pistols are wayyyy different

 

[eveled]

The indoor range I have access to is only 50 feet, no more, no less. So if adjustable I sight in to 50 feet. Most of my carry guns are windage adjustable only.

50 foot practice with carry guns is very frustrating, but when I have the opportunity to shoot closer, it becomes very easy.

 

[DGW1949]

The Harris County (TX) Sheriff's Academy taught us to be proficient with our side arms from 6 feet to 25 yds...When I was working for the Liberty County S.O. we held monthly inter-agency pistol matches that included 50 Yd shots....Today, it is not out of the question that I may need to take up to a 100 yard shot in order to defend myself on my own property.
And BTW, regardless of the internet legends that get passed around as if they are gospel, I do not know of a single state who's laws limit how close a threat must be in order for deadly force to be justified...

So I dunno, call me crazy but I believe in carrying enough gun, and and at least doing some amount of practice for the unexpected.

DGW

 

[pyth0n]

The Harris County (TX) Sheriff's Academy taught us to be proficient with our side arms from 6 feet to 25 yds...When I was working for the Liberty County S.O. we held monthly inter-agency pistol matches that included 50 Yd shots....Today, it is not out of the question that I may need to take up to a 100 yard shot in order to defend myself on my own property.
And BTW, regardless of the internet legends that get passed around as if they are gospel, I do not know of a single state who's laws limit how close a threat must be in order for deadly force to be justified...

So I dunno, call me crazy but I believe in carrying enough gun, and and at least doing some amount of practice for the unexpected.

DGW

"And BTW, regardless of the internet legends that get passed around as if they are gospel, I do not know of a single state who's laws limit how close a threat must be in order for deadly force to be justified..."
‼

 

[Dump1567]

I do 7-10 yards. My goal with any pistol is to shoot a fist size group at that distance. With a 2" snub, it's a little more difficult. But those usually serve as a back-up gun for me.

 

[Ale-8(1)]

Today, it is not out of the question that I may need to take up to a 100 yard shot in order to defend myself on my own property.

Have to ask . . . what circumstances would require such a shot?

Not doubting your word, just curious. There's hardly anywhere on our property that could present a 100-yard threat, and that would be back in the woods where such a threat might very well be hidden.

 

[DGW1949]

Have to ask . . . what circumstances would require such a shot?

Not doubting your word, just curious. There's hardly anywhere on our property that could present a 100-yard threat, and that would be back in the woods where such a threat might very well be hidden.

I guess my house and surrounding property is laid out different than yours.....It's almost 100yds from my front door to the beginning of my driveway, over 150 Yds from my back door to my rear property line and there's a power-line right of way that transverses the whole thing North to South, with my house being on the East side and my barn being up-hill on the West side.

As for the "circumstances" question, it brought to mind an incident that happened one night when I still lived in Texas; ....The dogs woke me up barking and when I went out on the porch I could see headlights where a truck was stopped some 200 Yds away along my furthermost fence line. Going to investigate, what I found was that two guys had cut my fence and was in the process of trying to load two of my horses into their stock trailer, which of course I put a stop to....Thing is though, it also occurred to me that had they been armed, and had they chosen to fire in my direction, what turned out to be merely a property crime could have just as easily have been a self defense scenario. And like I said, the distance between us was initially about 200 yds....So yeah, like I've said before; Statistics don't mean much when one gets caught up in a statistically-rare event.

DGW

 

[thinckley]

Today, it is not out of the question that I may need to take up to a 100 yard shot in order to defend myself on my own property.

I would not use a pistol in that scenario.....

And BTW, regardless of the internet legends that get passed around as if they are gospel, I do not know of a single state who's laws limit how close a threat must be in order for deadly force to be justified...

There is a difference between law and an "over-zealous" DA, especially in a blue state, county, or city....

 

[Hertervillian]

I’m not a fan of adjustable sights on my carry gun. I’ll zero my 22 at 20yds, which is about where I want to find a squirrel anyway.

 

[DGW1949]

I would not use a pistol in that scenario.....


There is a difference between law and an "over-zealous" DA, especially in a blue state, county, or city....

Mayob's fear mongering aside, you may be right about your "over-zealous" DA but even at that, a DA still can't just make stuff up as he goes. He might try to maybe, but that don't mean it'll fly......As to the other part, one is usually limited to what he has available at the time. Mostly that means it'll be his sidearm.

DGW