Auto-Indexing or Autoadvancing Turrets

[Lost Sheep]

Are there any other Turret presses out there that rotate the dies into place automatically like the Lee Turret does?

Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep

 

[contender]

Lyman made one. I believe they still offer it.
(I have a spare I'm gonna sell at a gun show.)

 

[RobertAnsonHeinlein]

Hornady Lock-N-Load AP

 

[Lost Sheep]

Hornady Lock-N-Load AP

From Hornady.com, "The Lock-N-Load® AP™ is a professional-grade, auto-indexing, 5-station progressive press "

I was asking for presses that operate like Lee's Turret. That is, using a standard shell holder and presenting each die in turn so that a completed cartridge could be produced, starting from loose components to finished cartridge without having to place the case in the shell holder multiple times.

Thanks for the suggestion of the LNL, but it does not appear to be convertible to a turret type operation with the ease of switching calibers that the Lee offers.

The Lyman and Hornady straight Turret presses do offer the simplicity I seek, but require manual advance of the dies.

The Lee Turrets offer 3-die and 4-die turret heads, but they offer precious little clearance between the dies and no ability to add a dedicated powder measure station. But they do move themselves into position automatically.

Of course, I am looking for one press that does everything. My next quest will be for a rotating head turret that flexes less than an "O" frame single stage.

Lost Sheep

 

[Yosemite Sam]

RCBS makes an accessory for the RockChucker that turns it into a turret, but it's over $400.

With the LNL, the specialized shell plate turns, not the head. You get five operations on five cases going at one time, instead of one case proceeding one station after another until done. It's more difficult to set up, but faster once you get there.

I have both a Lee Classic Turret and the LNL. There are two distinct Lees: From what I've heard/read, don't bother with the older, 3-hole turret model. Get the nice cast Classic, if you go that way. It has an auto-indexing feature to step through the stations.

If you use the Lee powder measure (Auto Disk), it sits on top of their expander die, spins around the turret head with it (harmlessly), and drops powder through it.

Be advised, the Lee turret flexes ever so slightly, too...

-- Sam

 

[RobertAnsonHeinlein]

I spoke with limited knowledge.

So the Lee Turret (any turret press) rotates the dies above the shell while the Hornady LNL AP (and any progressive press) rotates the shell from die to die around a shell holding merry-go-round?

And both rotations occur with each pull of the operating arm.

Is this correct?

 

[contender]

As I stated before,, LYMAN makes one EXACTLY like you want. I know,, I have one as an extra! Here's a pic!

 

[Lost Sheep]

I spoke with limited knowledge.

So the Lee Turret (any turret press) rotates the dies above the shell while the Hornady LNL AP (and any progressive press) rotates the shell from die to die around a shell holding merry-go-round?

And both rotations occur with each pull of the operating arm.

Is this correct?

Correct, CaliforniaLiberal. But it is only the dies in their turret that do a partial rotation with each ram stroke. The cartridge is in a single shell holder atop the ram and does not rotate anywhere.

I would rather have my dies in the merry-go-round than my cartridge cases and would rather watch one operation at a time than multiple operations. So, that is why I prefer a turret to a progressive.

As I stated before,, LYMAN makes one EXACTLY like you want. I know,, I have one as an extra! Here's a pic!

Thanks for taking the time to set up your press and take the picture.

Yup, that does look like what I described. I don't see the mechanism that rotates the turret head, though. Is it behind the body of the press, not visible in the picture?

I have a friend who uses a similar turret press, but rotating the dies in the turret is done only by hand. The ram up-down stroke does not automatically rotate the head like the Lee (when the auto-indexing is turned on) does.

That is, I want the merry-go-round to operate without my extra hand helping it.

Please, all, pardon my ignorance. I started loading 35 years ago and all I knew were single-stage presses and progressives, nothing in between. Then I laid off reloading for a while and got back into it with all my old gear a few years ago. But I was kind of isolated up here and am a little backward and out-of-date now.

Thanks

Lost Sheep

 

[Yosemite Sam]

I spoke with limited knowledge.

So the Lee Turret (any turret press) rotates the dies above the shell while the Hornady LNL AP (and any progressive press) rotates the shell from die to die around a shell holding merry-go-round?

And both rotations occur with each pull of the operating arm.

Is this correct?

Clearly, based on your handle, there should be a progressive press in your future.

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

FWIW, with the LNL, about 1/2 the rotation occurs on the downstroke, and another 1/2 on the upstroke, to minimize spinning the shells quickly.

-- Sam

 

[SBH4628]

Sorry guys,,,,The "dies" don't auto rotate. Any turret press you must turn the "dies" by hand. The Hornady LNL like Sam has is auto index,,I have one myself.

 

[contender]

The Lyman has to be rotated by hand. You use one station until you have that operation complete & need to switch operations, then you rotate the head and start all over again.

 

[mattsbox99]

Only the Lee has the auto rotation you are asking about. I've used a RCBS Turret for a few years and I've been happy with it. I recently upgraded to a Dillon Progressive for my pistol rounds and leave the Turret for my rifle loads, as I weigh each powder charge seperately for them.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

As mentioned, the original purpose of turret presses was just to have all the dies for one caliber setup in the press at once. You ran all your cases through one die, and then moved on to the next process and ran all your cases through the next die. The only real time saving over a standard single stage press was the time saved in screwing the individual dies into the press. Also, you could have multiple turrets already set up with all the dies needed for another caliber. Other than that, there was not a whole lot of time saving.

Lee's auto advancing turret press works on a completely different idea, leaving one case in the shell holder and running it through all the dies until it is done, then load another case.

I learned to reload on a single stage press, and eventually made the move to a progressive press. I now have two Hornady Lock & Load APs, one set up for small pistol primers and one set up for large pistol primers. With an auto indexing progressive press, you are processing several cases at once, and each stroke of the handle produces a finished round. The Hornady machine processes five rounds at once.

As far as the 'merry go round' effect is concerned, nowhere is it written that you have to run a progressive at a zillion rounds per hour. And you really don't wind up watching every single case going into every die. The sizing/decap, primer seating, and belling operations are pretty simple and pretty reliable. They really don't need to be watched. I like to peer into every case after the powder drops, to make sure the powder is really there. This is really easy with Black Powder because the powder almost fills up the case. For Smokeless I have a light rigged up that allows me to peek down inside to make sure the powder is there. You can also buy special dies that will detect if the right amount of powder is in there, but I prefer the old eyeball method. The only place attention really needs to be payed is making sure the powder is in there, and holding the bullet carefully enough that it feeds into the case properly.

If one operates a progressive press at a moderate speed, one can still turn out much more ammo in an hour than possible with any turret press, and still take the time to make sure the powder is dumping properly and the bullets are seating properly.

 

[Yosemite Sam]

Sorry guys,,,,The "dies" don't auto rotate. Any turret press you must turn the "dies" by hand. ...

I'm sorry too, but that is incorrect information.

The dies auto rotate in the Lee, if you've got the auto-indexing ratchet in place.

-- Sam

 

[Iron Mike Golf]

The only real time saving over a standard single stage press was the time saved in screwing the individual dies into the press.

That depends on your workflow. I batch size and prime. Once I have the cases prepped and primed, the rest of the cartridge assembly is done without removing the case from the shell holder.

1. Expand/charge with powder
2. Rotate turret, place and seat bullet
3. Rotate turret, crimp

I find that saves me a lot of time. Not as fast as a progressive, but a happy medium both in terms of cost and speed between single stage and a progressive. But I load only a few hundred rounds a week.

 

[Dale53]

I have two Dillon 550B's (one for small primers and one for large primers). I reload for a dozen calibers and appreciate the relatively quick change of calibers.

That said, I also have the Lee Classic Cast Turret (this is NOT to be confused with the original Lee Turret press). The Lee Classic Cast Turret has four holes, plenty of space for most any LONG cartridge, and is made of Cast Iron. It has compound leverage for minimizing effort.

After you learn how to operate it you can do 150-200 reloads per hour. It allows the quickest change of caliber of any press out there (seconds, not minutes). The turrets are inexpensive as are the shell holders. Best value for the dollar. It also makes a fine addition press alongside your Progressive.

If I have less than 200 rounds to load, it is quicker to use the Lee with it's almost instant caliber change. It is great for working up loads. It is particularly good if I only want to run fifty or so of a new bullet or new powder, etc. Make no mistake, these are EXCELLENT presses.

Any relatively large quantity I use the Dillons. If I could only have one press it would be the Dillon 550B.

Dale53

 

[Lost Sheep]

That said, I also have the Lee Classic Cast Turret (this is NOT to be confused with the original Lee Turret press). The Lee Classic Cast Turret has four holes, plenty of space for most any LONG cartridge, and is made of Cast Iron. It has compound leverage for minimizing effort.
(truncated for brevity)

Note:

Lee Precision has a $40 conversion kit to make the Lee 3-Hole turret press into a 4-hole turret press.

Change the turret ring and go. Involves disassembling the entire top end of the press, though. And you still don't have the "drop the primer through the ram" feature of the Classic Cast or cast iron construction, but if you have a Pro-1000 or Deluxe Turret 3-hole, you don't have to scrap the whole thing.

Of course you could sell the old press and get a new Classic Cast. Your choice. But the options are there.

Lost Sheep

 

[Dale53]

Lost Sheep;
The original Lee Turret press doesn't have enough room to allow auto advance with rifle calibers. The Lee Classic Cast Turret press does, in spades.

I sold my original to a pistol reloader and bought the Classic.

Don't misunderstand, the original (I had already converted it to a four holer) was a good press for handguns - just not enough room for rifle calibers between the shell holder and die.

Dale53

 

[Lost Sheep]

(truncated for brevity...)The only place attention really needs to be payed is making sure the powder is in there, and holding the bullet carefully enough that it feeds into the case properly.

If one operates a progressive press at a moderate speed, one can still turn out much more ammo in an hour than possible with any turret press, and still take the time to make sure the powder is dumping properly and the bullets are seating properly.

One can turn out more ammo, but I ain't the one. At least, not on my Pro-1000s. Granted, I got them used and maybe have never set them up properly (but I think I did). I have to watch the primer feed like a hawk, tap with my finger and fairly often have to "assist" with a primer prod (formed from a straightened paper clip). I feed it cases by hand (I either have to do that or fill the feed tubes by hand as I don't have a collator) and place bullets on the case mouth by hand. Ejection of finished rounds is pretty iffy, so that gets a manual assist as well.

With the stoppages and constant inspections my Pro-1000s get, my Classic Turret with auto-index matched the average production of the Pro-1000 the second batch of ammo I ran through it. With a little more practice, a better bench mount and some adjusting of my technique, I believe I will exceed all but my best days on the Pro-1000 and feel safer doing it.

Like you said. One can. But like I said, I ain't the one.

Thanks for your encouragement, though.

By the way, one can operate any turret press in the manner of the Lee Classic Turret or the Lee Deluxe Turret. You just have to advance the turret by hand at the bottom of the ram stroke. If you wanted to trade the convenience of the auto-advance for the convenience of more die stations and/or space between dies, it might be a worthwhile trade-off.

Lost Sheep