Another Way to Find Value?

[Joe Chartreuse]

As mentioned in another thread, I came into possession of a fully functional Tower Of London Armories (Tower) 1840s black powder pistol in very good condition. I have been trying to determine value for some time, getting several different estimates. I thought I would try another way. Has anyone here bought- and especially SOLD one of these, or similar? I have seen asking prices of all sorts, so what really counts is what one actually sold for- either to or from you. Anyone?

 

[wwb]

Check with PBS to see if one of their "Antiques Roadshow" episodes will be occurring in your area. They will want any information you have,as well as photos if they are really interested in a featured item. And, of course, there are all the "walk-ons", some of whom have articles of enough interest to be featured. At least you will get an appraisal, even if you're no a TV star.

 

[Kevin]

Can you post a picture of it? I’d love to see what you are talking about

 

[RSIno1]

He keeps fishing that what he has is an original 1840s gun. Simple fact is his is a replica and was made in Japan probably in the 1980s.

Here is one that sold a few days ago on gunbroker $195.00 - https://www.gunbroker.com/item/943594166

https://www.rugerforum.com/threads/black-powder-experts-out-there.301826/

 

[Acorn]

Submit your query to The American Rifleman magazine’s I have this old gun column.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

Check with PBS to see if one of their "Antiques Roadshow" episodes will be occurring in your area. They will want any information you have,as well as photos if they are really interested in a featured item. And, of course, there are all the "walk-ons", some of whom have articles of enough interest to be featured. At least you will get an appraisal, even if you're no a TV star.

Well, I do have a face for radio...... I have actually gotten varying appraisals, but feel that knowing what they have actually bought and sold for would be a more solid source of value. Also, unless I know if it is real or replica, the paperwork issue comes up,

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

Can you post a picture of it? I’d love to see what you are talking about

I don't know. Have yet to be able to figure out how. Let me give it a shot....and....YAY! I believe the ammo bag may actually be the original, but no way to know for sure that I am aware of.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

He keeps fishing that what he has is an original 1840s gun. Simple fact is his is a replica and was made in Japan probably in the 1980s.

Here is one that sold a few days ago on gunbroker $195.00 - https://www.gunbroker.com/item/943594166

https://www.rugerforum.com/threads/black-powder-experts-out-there.301826/

I'm not fishing anything. I am only going by the information that I have found. If it really is a replica, it should not have the hallmark in front of the hammer, per other "experts", which leads me to believe it may be real. That being said, It still may have no more value than a replica. I just don't know which is why I posted this thread. I have gotten appraisals from $160 - $800 +

 

[hittman]

There’s a wealth of knowledge here. However, your best bet is with an actual expert in antique firearms. You need to take it there or ship it to them. Not sure you’ll be satisfied with an answer unless or until you get this with someone who handles this stuff as their profession.

Personally, looks to me like a 40 to 50 year old replica and if so, you have a solid $150 wall hanger / conversation piece / family heirloom.

 

[RSIno1]

I'm not fishing anything. I am only going by the information that I have found. If it really is a replica, it should not have the hallmark in front of the hammer, per other "experts", which leads me to believe it may be real. That being said, It still may have no more value than a replica. I just don't know which is why I posted this thread. I have gotten appraisals from $160 - $800 +

The pure and simple fact you refuse to acknowledge is that Japan was a closed country in 1840 and England was not farming gun production out to the far east. - Sakoku, Japan's long period of isolation from 1639 to 1853, kept it closed off from much of the world.

How many British proof stamps would you like to buy? https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1045/1/STAMP-GR-GP

 

[Dan in MI]

Can you take close up pics of any and all markings, plus the lock work? That would help a lot. My ‘smith deals inly in antiques and repairs.

 

[hittman]

See page 96 in this months edition of American Rifleman magazine for more confirmation on Japan and their closed society during that time.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

There’s a wealth of knowledge here. However, your best bet is with an actual expert in antique firearms. You need to take it there or ship it to them. Not sure you’ll be satisfied with an answer unless or until you get this with someone who handles this stuff as their profession.

Personally, looks to me like a 40 to 50 year old replica and if so, you have a solid $150 wall hanger / conversation piece / family heirloom.

Well, if it is, then I would require paperwork to sell it. It was a found item, so there is no way to trace ownership. My local cops are not exactly brain surgeons when it comes to firearms law from what I have seen, so it will be difficult to figure out how to do what would be needed. Suggestion?

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

The pure and simple fact you refuse to acknowledge is that Japan was a closed country in 1840 and England was not farming gun production out to the far east. - Sakoku, Japan's long period of isolation from 1639 to 1853, kept it closed off from much of the world.

How many British proof stamps would you like to buy? https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1045/1/STAMP-GR-GP

I'm eastern trained with some knowledge of the culture, though admittedly more about Okanawa than Japan. However, despite what you say, which is absolutely true, there was plenty of undergtound trade going on- especially if it was a benefit to Japan. They make the barrels ( or maybe just tubes to be refined later) and get not only paid, but firearms technology. I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that there is a possibility either way, and I need a hands on expert to be sure.

 

[eveled]

Well, if it is, then I would require paperwork to sell it. It was a found item, so there is no way to trace ownership. My local cops are not exactly brain surgeons when it comes to firearms law from what I have seen, so it will be difficult to figure out how to do what would be needed. Suggestion?

On a federal level it is not a firearm. No matter how old it is.

Don’t take my word for it, do your own research. You will find muzzle loaders and cap and ball revolvers do not need to be transferred registered or go through an ffl so no paperwork. If you are outside of the US disregard everything I said.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS!

My opinion there is no way that pistol is from the 1840’s

 

[hittman]

muzzle loaders and cap and ball revolvers do not need to be transferred registered or go through an ffl.

In MOST places but I believe there are exceptions to that; on a local, municipal, county or state level.
This is where “check your local laws” comes into play.

 

[eveled]

Thanks. Thats why I specified on a federal level.

I edited my post to reflect that.

 

[hittman]

And remember that nobody here is a lawyer ….. you may need one for an opinion you can count on. Maybe there is an FFL local to you that you trust and he / she can help.

 

[hittman]

Thats why I specified on a federal level.

Yep.

 

[eveled]

I like @wwb ‘s idea PBS antiques roadshow to get info. I would love to see that episode.

 

[Dan in MI]

Get the pics I asked for. I can compare markings to mine.

Also if memory serves when Japan opened back up they were still using wheelocks because that was the technology at the time of closing. I saw some seriously ornate wheelocks from that era.

It’ll take me a couple days as it is bow season.

 

[RSIno1]

I like @wwb ‘s idea PBS antiques roadshow to get info. I would love to see that episode.

Don't forget the Civil War "expert" who was evaluating his own stuff brought in by friends and upping the values so he could sell the stuff for more in his store.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

On a federal level it is not a firearm. No matter how old it is.

Don’t take my word for it, do your own research. You will find muzzle loaders and cap and ball revolvers do not need to be transferred registered or go through an ffl so no paperwork. If you are outside of the US disregard everything I said.

CHECK YOUR LOCAL LAWS!

My opinion there is no way that pistol is from the 1840’s

Thanks, Eveled. I sort of had that feeling myself, but will research further. Still not sure if it's a replica anyway. The "replica" that RSIno1 posted showed very clear deep stamps of the hallmarks. Mine look like nothing that unworn, but are rather barely legible. On the second pic I had to hold a very bright light at just a certain angle to make it visible. Also, the hallmarks on the "replica" are positioned slightly differently.
EDIT: None of it matters now. Just saw a flaw in the wood by the front of the trigger guard, giving the gun nothing but wall hanger status- DAMMIT

 

[Ride1949]

Many different offerings and pricing (both authentic and reproductions) here.
www.liveauctioneers.com/item/36991858_replica-english-tower-flintlock-pistol

Reproduction
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...lock-pistol-reproduction.cfm?gun_id=101017736
Reproduction
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/943139796
A lot of good information and discussion on here.
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/tower-flintlock-pistol-t23351.html

 

[Dan in MI]

~1974 Ultra-Hi .69 caliber kit gun. Roughed out stock, sand cast brass parts. Finished by a 14 year old.

 

[krw]

Gunbroker, ‘No Reserve’ and let er go!!

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

~1974 Ultra-Hi .69 caliber kit gun. Roughed out stock, sand cast brass parts. Finished by a 14 year old.View attachment 7868View attachment 7869

I can't make out what it says on the barrel. and it's not on mine. What does it say?

 

[Dan in MI]

The opposite side says "black powder only" "Ultra Hi"

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

AND WE HAVE A WINNER- everyone but me, sorta. You are all correct. It is a 1970's era replica made by a company called EIG in Japan. Ah well, I suck. Worth 150-200 dollars. The good news is that it is NOT a wall hanger. The small wood flaw I saw is only at the bottom of the ramrod storage and has no effect on it's use. YAY! Thank you all, especially RSIno1 and Dan in MI, for your research time and CORRECT information.

 

[Joe Chartreuse]

The opposite side says "black powder only" "Ultra Hi"

Thanks Dan