Another 44 or 41 mag

[jessejmc1979]

I have a stainless 7.5" redhawk in 44 and reload swc hard cast for it. This is my backup deer hunting gun (anything within "bow" range 35-40 yds.) I really like it and since it was a gift from my dad will never leave me! The problem is that it is soooo big. I now go on a canoe trip with some buddies into the boundary waters in MN and would love to carry it but it's just too heavy/big for me to lug it way into the bush. I got a simply rugged sourdough pancake for it last fall and it carries much better with that than my old hip holster but it's still a bit much. Now to make a short story long I would like to get a revolver with a shorter barrel for our canoe trip and also just bombing around in the woods while training my cur dog and such. My brother in law has a 41 blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel that he can't afford to feed and he was telling my dad that he might sell it. My question's are: What is the going rate for a nm blackhawk that's a shooter? It's not mint but it's not in bad shape either. The other question is would I be better off to just hold off to find a 4.5" redhawk in 44 to keep things simpler since I already have a redhawk and have lots of reloading components already for the 44? Right now I'm on the fence and would kind of like to have a 41 just for the sake of having something different but the tightwad in me is telling me it would be nice to not have to buy a new stock of brass/bullets for a new caliber. Thanks for your insight fellas and sorry for rambling!

 

[Rclark]

Now, I am just guessing a bit, but $350-$450 would be a good price range depending on useage. That said, I'd just go buy a .44Mag BH for a few extra $$ in either 4 5/8 or 5 1/2" and be done with it. No change in caliber, a new compact gun ... Sounds like a win-win to me. Now if I was looking for a 'new' caliber I'd go 'up' to say .45 Colt instead of down .... But that's just me talking. I know it doesn't help much, but this is what I'd do....

 

[jessejmc1979]

I see your point and when my dad gave me the redhawk I was actually saving my pennies for a sbh 44 but something came up for my "stash" of money. I really do like the lipsey's 3.75" sbh also. Thanks for the insight. I wish I could "just buy both" but unfortunately I would be considered a gelding when the wife got done with me! LOL

 

[trebor44]

I have a Redhawk in .44 mag with a nice 5" barrel. Overall the gun is a heavy beast, but when in griz country I feel more comfortable with a DA than a SA. That said, I did pack a single action Old Model SBH for years with a cut down barrel. It was loud and generally accurate at 'bear range' (slept with it under my pillow in the tent). If you go with the SA be sure to practice, practice, practice with it so that it becomes ingrained to thumbing back the hammer to shoot! The .41 is good, but the .44 mag or .45 colt is a bit better in my book. I have all three and enjoy them all.

 

[BearBio]

For black bear, I don't think there's much difference between a 44, 41 or 45 (all loaded to max). Grizzlies are a different animal. There the 45 (hot loads) is best, 44 second and 41 third. I carry a 45 in grizzly country and the wife carries 41 mag, both Blackhawks.

For what it is worth, I've been charged once and will testify that you won't have time for a second shot unless you can slow him down with a hit on the first shot. Bears are THAT fast. So, don't worry about single or double action. If you do go DA, it might give you a false sense of security.

Black bears are more likely to HUNT you for food, Grizzlies want to remove a threat.

 

[CraigC]

The .41Mag is a good cartridge and the Blackhawk in that chambering is lighter due to the lighter weight aluminum grip frame. This may or may not be an issue. I would say anywhere from $250-$350 for your brother's .41, depending on condition. For me, I opt for the short Super Blackhawk converted to a Bisley. In a six shot large frame Ruger, I don't consider the .44Mag to be second to anything. With heavyweight cast bullets, the .44 maintains a slight sectional density and velocity advantage and the .45 has a slightly larger frontal area. It's a wash between the two.

Regardless of how fast bears are, there is a definite difference in skillset between SA's and DA's. That said, I don't see any reason for this to turn into a bear defense thread.

 

[David Bradshaw]

jessemc1979.... Your big heavy Redhawk 7-1/2" won't be lightened much by replacing it on the trail with a Redhawk 5-1/2". As you have .44 dies and components, consideration should be given to sticking with a .44. To get a noticeably lighter Ruger .44, look at the Super Blackhawk, new or used, with 4-5/8" or 5-1/2" barrel. Or, a "distributor exclusive" SBH or Bisley Blackhawk .44 5-1/2". The one attribute of the Redhawk 5-1/2" is its far less perceived bulk than the 7-1/2" when hiking, or using a chainsaw, etc.

The single action is the only way to go lighter with a revolver built around----not adapted to----the .44 magnum. The issue becomes whether you are comfortable with a single action and shoot it well. Some folk prefer one and disdain the other (DA vs SA), while others shoot both DA and SA equally well.

The .41 mag has less recoil than the .44 mag and gets away with the aluminum Blackhawk grip frame. Since you handload, you have maximum load versatility with whichever cartridge you choose.

My own preference is to be good with, and to use and carry, both single and double actions revolvers, as the systems compliment one another. To this end, and because I have never internalized the slightly flatter trajectory of the .41 mag, I grab any old VERY FINE .44 mag and be done with it.

The old aluminum grip frame Ruger Blackhawk .44 magnum so fauned over be some exercises, in my hand, a brutal recoil experience. A shorter barrel Super Blackhawk with either SBH grip or Bisley grip is a wonderful piece. Noticeably lighter swinging the mountain than Ruger double action counterpart.
David Bradshaw

 

[jessejmc1979]

I am warming up to the idea of a single action. I very rarely shoot my redhawk in double action anyways. The weight issue is something that sure would be nice especially since I pretty much always pull the hammer back except on the rare occasion at the range just farting around. I appreciate all of the advice and info fellas!

 

[Chuck 100 yd]

Kentucky Gun co. had them new for $440.00 just a week ago. I bought the same gun in .45 Colt although it has not been shipped yet.
The Red hawk is a large gun. I have two of them. My 9 1/2" RH with a scope on it is large enough to be considered a crew served weapon. Definitely NOT a concealed carry piece. Get a chest holster and carry the weight on your shoulders.

 

[Lee Martin]

To this end, and because I have never internalized the slightly flatter trajectory of the .41 mag, I grab any old VERY FINE .44 mag and be done with it.

As a 41 fan I have to agree with you David. I never understood the "trajectory" argument made in favor of the 41. So much of it depends on load level and many of those comparisons are apples to oranges. Even with similar speeds the flight delta is immaterial at handgun ranges.

 

[Nowata]

I have been to the BWCA 54 times, since '83. We have had bears in camp 6 times. They are after your food, not you. This past May, I fell down a rockface and broke my leg in 3 places, all spiral fractures. My partner left me, in the tent, to paddle back to the truck. I laid there all day. Help came in a U.S. Forest Service floatplane. Still don't feel a need to bring a gun.

 

[jessejmc1979]

I have been to the BWCA 54 times, since '83. We have had bears in camp 6 times. They are after your food, not you. This past May, I fell down a rockface and broke my leg in 3 places, all spiral fractures. My partner left me, in the tent, to paddle back to the truck. I laid there all day. Help came in a U.S. Forest Service floatplane. Still don't feel a need to bring a gun.

I am glad that you ended up OK. That must have been quite the experience. I am well aware of the low likelyhood of bears being a problem in the bwca because there are lots of bears where I hunt and live and they just aren't a problem most of the time. That being said the fact that you don't want to carry a gun is your business. I carry pretty much everywhere I go. Not because I am scared but there are way too many variable's in this crazy world. I always tell people when asked why I "need" to carry: "If I knew when I would need a gun I would just stay home that day." I hope that this doesn't make me any less of a man than you!

 

[snappy]

Still don't feel a need to bring a gun.

Neither did Timothy Treadwell haha!

Just ribbing you Nowata. Your tumble sounds scarey and I'm glad that went as well as it did. Yikes! :shock: That must have been a long night.

To the o.p. jesse, the used price ranges posted already in this thread are an easy $100 dollars short of what things are going for around here, (grain of salt please).

I have become a big fan of the .41 these last couple of years so may be I am biased. Money wise a shorter barreled .44 does make sense with what you already have going, and would be plenty flexible for plink or pound. That said, the .41 is a sweet round to shoot and the little 4 5/8" Flat Top .41 I managed to buy last month is a new favorite.

Either way you already won! Let us know how it works out.

 

[BIgMuddy]

I think the original question was: buy a short barreled RH or buy my BIL's 41 mag BH?

My answer is: Buy the BH in 41 mag. I have a few 41's and they are plenty adequate for your purpose. The short barreled BH with the aluminum grip frame is a joy to carry and a wonderful gun to shoot. The money you save between a used BH and a new, hard to find lately, RH will more than pay for any new reloading supplies.

I was shooting my short barreled 41 yesterday, and with each shot was reminded again why I love that cartridge.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Dan

 

[Sugar River]

I'm with BigMuddy on this one. Buy the 41 Blackhawk. You'll love it.

As for price, new in box 41 BHs are going for $425-450.
Adjust for wear and tear on your brother's piece accordingly.

Pete

 

[willk]

Having the pleasure to shoot the Blackhawk 44 with that grip that is so valued by certain gun writers, I am glad to hear Mr. Bradshaw also reflect that it is no pleasure to shoot. Managable with light loads, but Never will I shoot my full power 44 loads in my cherished Old Flattop. Mind, I shoot those loads in any of our other three Ruger Blackhawks all day long. No superman, I just have developed a tolerance for pain or have become blatantly stupid, whichever comes first.

Now, having aquired Our Very First .41 last year, I am finally getting around to shooting it. It has noticable less recoil. Still nothing for beginners (I was thrilled to hear others down the firing line saying that "everytinme it goes off, it sounds like a cannon." ) Nice to know you are recognized.

So, there you have it. Get a .41 Blackhawk or a Model 58 S&W and give up about 50 grains of bullet weight and some recoil or go with what you are already familiar with and get a Blackhawk with a 4 5/8 barrel in .44 with the same or more recoil depending on how you load it.

My choice, if I can't afford a Freedom Arms I would purchase a Blackhawk with a caliber that starts with 4 8)

 

[dougader]

For black bear, I don't think there's much difference between a 44, 41 or 45 (all loaded to max). Grizzlies are a different animal. There the 45 (hot loads) is best, 44 second and 41 third. I carry a 45 in grizzly country and the wife carries 41 mag, both Blackhawks.

For what it is worth, I've been charged once and will testify that you won't have time for a second shot unless you can slow him down with a hit on the first shot. Bears are THAT fast. So, don't worry about single or double action. If you do go DA, it might give you a false sense of security.

Black bears are more likely to HUNT you for food, Grizzlies want to remove a threat.

I agree with everything you said, except about maybe being able to get off a 2nd shot before the train with fur and teeth bowls you over. If you still have your gun in hand at that point, you'd be hard pressed to cock, and fire, a SA revolver. Having even a small chance of having the ability to fire close contact shots into the bear one-handed while you are on your back may make a difference.

And, yes, if I see a black bear following me, or doing anything except running away at 35 - 40 mph, then that's a real concern. A grizz gets you on the ground... well, at some point it's better to play dead than fight.

Some time ago I picked up a Ruger SRH Alaskan in 454 Casull with the 2-3/4" barrel. The incredible loss of velocity (along with the crazy increase in used gun prices for this revolver) led me to sell it and buy a 7-1/2" SRH, again in 454, with the idea to cut it down to a more manageable 4-1/2" - 5" barrel length.

I'd personally feel better with a DA revolver whether it's 41 mag or 44 mag. I really like the S&W Mt Guns in either caliber, but a 629 or 657 4" would be great as well. I wish I had never sold my 629-2, 4" 44 mag.

For Alaska, I still cling to 454 Casull... or a 480 Ruger and up from there. 475 and 500 Linebaugh conversions on the SRH are spendy but worth it IMO.

To Jesse's question about the 44 v 41 mag option... have you considered hust sticking with your 44 mag RH and having it cut back to, say, 4.5"? It'd still be the gun your Dad gave you, but customized just a touch to serve you better on your canoe and hunting trips.

 

[meshugunner]

You might consider a different carry method that distributes that load your body more evenly, like a shoulder or bandolier holster. I have a Crossfire Alaskan mounted horizontaly across the bottom of my frame pack and carry 6.5" BH which I draw sorta like a small of the back holster- not as big as your piece, I know but it's a hell of a lot more comfortable than having it hang on my waistband. If that works you wont have to make any compromises about your weapon of choice. OTH it may deprive you of an excuse to buy another gun

 

[s2harry]

Get the Blackhawk 4 5/8 in .41 mag its a good carry gun.

 

[BearBio]

For black bear, I don't think there's much difference between a 44, 41 or 45 (all loaded to max). Grizzlies are a different animal. There the 45 (hot loads) is best, 44 second and 41 third. I carry a 45 in grizzly country and the wife carries 41 mag, both Blackhawks.

For what it is worth, I've been charged once and will testify that you won't have time for a second shot unless you can slow him down with a hit on the first shot. Bears are THAT fast. So, don't worry about single or double action. If you do go DA, it might give you a false sense of security.

Black bears are more likely to HUNT you for food, Grizzlies want to remove a threat.

I agree with everything you said, except about maybe being able to get off a 2nd shot before the train with fur and teeth bowls you over. If you still have your gun in hand at that point, you'd be hard pressed to cock, and fire, a SA revolver. Having even a small chance of having the ability to fire close contact shots into the bear one-handed while you are on your back may make a difference.

And, yes, if I see a black bear following me, or doing anything except running away at 35 - 40 mph, then that's a real concern. A grizz gets you on the ground... well, at some point it's better to play dead than fight.

Some time ago I picked up a Ruger SRH Alaskan in 454 Casull with the 2-3/4" barrel. The incredible loss of velocity (along with the crazy increase in used gun prices for this revolver) led me to sell it and buy a 7-1/2" SRH, again in 454, with the idea to cut it down to a more manageable 4-1/2" - 5" barrel length.

I'd personally feel better with a DA revolver whether it's 41 mag or 44 mag. I really like the S&W Mt Guns in either caliber, but a 629 or 657 4" would be great as well. I wish I had never sold my 629-2, 4" 44 mag.

For Alaska, I still cling to 454 Casull... or a 480 Ruger and up from there. 475 and 500 Linebaugh conversions on the SRH are spendy but worth it IMO.

To Jesse's question about the 44 v 41 mag option... have you considered hust sticking with your 44 mag RH and having it cut back to, say, 4.5"? It'd still be the gun your Dad gave you, but customized just a touch to serve you better on your canoe and hunting trips.

Rule is: Black bear: fight back; grizzly: Play dead.

John "Pondoro" Taylor wrote that he had no use for a pistol EXCEPT a 45 auto. He felt if a lion was chewing on you, having a SA auto might save your life if you put against (Choose One: eye, ear, nose, mouth, etc) and fired and that could be done with one hand.

I've written before that a friend with Canadian Forest Service said the one common factor to most bear attacks there is that most of them have loaded rifles still on their shoulders!