A question for Brass Magnet

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KRuger

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
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Location
Loomis,WA,USA
In another thread about the development of a .308 load, you made the following statement. "I would go for the 4895 in a semiautomatic or Win 748 in a bolt action first also."
Would you care to elaborate on that statement a bit, please? I assume the distinction is about the burn rate of the two powders. However in trying to find which is faster, I find conflicting information in my manuals.
Thank you,
KRuger
 

contender

Ruger Guru
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Sep 18, 2002
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21,246
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Lake Lure NC USA
Brass Magnet isn't here as often as others.

As noted,, the burn rate charts are in all good manuals. The age of the manuals is something to consider. Older manuals,, will reflect the burn rate of the powder during that era. Many powders change in how they are made over time, and updated manuals are necessary to keep up with the upgraded powders.

As to why a specific powder would be recommended for one application vs another, all goes back to PERSONAL selections.

I study all load data from several manuals, and most often,, I see a pattern evolve. I look at the test firearm,, such as "universal receiver" vs. an actual firearm. It can make a difference. And when comparing a semi-auto vs a bolt action, you are dealing with different requirements for the ammo to be able to perform.
Peak pressures happen at different places inside a firearm, so it may be necessary to have a load that properly operates the semi-auto, vs a load that works well in a bolt gun.

And even with the current component shortages,, you can study several manuals to get a good idea as to what YOUR gun may find to be the better component starting place.

I never take internet load info as gospel. I do my own studies. And I stay within the perimeters of safety by following listed manual info.

So, since Brass Magnet hasn't responded,, maybe this post can help you in your quest. If I'm off base,, my apologies.
 

KRuger

Bearcat
Joined
Aug 12, 2003
Messages
31
Location
Loomis,WA,USA
Contender,
No you are not off base. I thank you for your time and knowledge. Although I have a small number of posts; I've been a "lurker" on this site long enough to know that you have earned your "ruger guru" status honestly.
A question; Can one assume that a slower powder will spread it's peak pressure over a longer time period than a faster powder? Or is that too much of an over simplification?
Thank you,
KRuger
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
41
Location
Missouri
I appreciate all of the help!

Now for why:
I have been a Highpower competitive shooter for decades. In service rifles that are 30 caliber, I.e. 7.62x51 or 30-06, the preferred powder for Match loads with 168 or 173 or 175 grain bullets was 4895. 4895 was also the preferred powder for Match reloads. If you look up the GI duplication load data printed in the American Rifleman many years ago, 4895 is one of the listed powders. 4895 has been in use for well over 50 years and we know how it performs. No surprises, just superb performance. Why even consider anything else?
With semiautomatic rifles, when the bullet reaches the gas port the gas pressure is important and I don’t want to risk a bent op rod. So I stay with the standard powder and standard load.
There is one additional consideration to consider: Powder fouling in your barrel. Different powders may foul your barrel differently and if you change to ammo loaded with a different powder it may cause some flyers until your barrel has returned to a consistent fouling.

Bolt action rifles follow different rules! If it is safe and shoots well, load it and enjoy.
I have a favorite load for 30-06 which uses 748 and a 180 Sierra Game King (SBT) which has shot under 1/3 MOA for a lot of shots with all in the same ragged hole centered in the X-ring at 300 yards. That is good enough for me for hunting. I have several relatives that prefer that load to any other. If funds or availability are limited, Sierra 180 SPT also work well but may lose some accuracy at long range on windy days So it is my second choice. I have also loaded 180 grain Partition bullets with the same charge.
Now for an administrative note! I load that load in Lake City Match brass, Lake City or other GI brass, and commercial brass. Since GI brass, NM or not, is thicker and has less capacity than commercial brass the charge must be adjusted as you change brass. I load LC Match brass and commercial with the same powder charge which makes the LC NM noticeably hotter. I decrease the charge by 1.5 grains for FA NM or standard GI brass. For pre-1960 GI brass which also includes WW2 brass I do not load this load even with the 1.5 grain less standard. I save those brass for cast bullets or conversion to 8x57 Mauser. I believe brass which has been fired with corrosive primers has been forever weakened so I won’t push it so hard.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
41
Location
Missouri
Contender said it very well and provided great info!
For me it is “personal” and personally, I want my semi-auto loads to be indistinguishable from match or GI loads with the exception of primer color at most. That even includes head stamps!
For my bolt action 30-06 hunting loads, I landed on one I consider to be perfect and I have not felt like trying to develop another long range hunting load.
I do load other loads, but they are clearly not the serious stuff and they will normally be a middle of the road charge with an appropriate bullet and appropriate primer. Once you have loaded and tested the load you can adjust it up or down as desired.
I am opposed to loading minimum or maximum loads.
Your most accurate loads are not due to the “load data” used. They are most likely due to the brass prep you do. A scratched bullet base caused by a burr in the case mouth will cause flyers every time!
You can test for those burrs with a Q-tip!
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
41
Location
Missouri
Now for why I haven’t been here often!
I am more active on CastBoolits. Recently, I haven’t been there a lot, either.
I have finally finished moving to Missouri. From the city to the country! WooHoo!!!
I am trying to make the new place into what I want it to be. Lots of work and I am behind schedule on all of it. Way behind! I had to wait a long time for concrete to be poured. Now I am trying to get a garden started late and still paint inside the new place.
Tan and brown in the house and battleship gray in the garage. I am repainting in white with lots of Kilz2 as a primer/stain blocker. It is taking so much more time than I expected.
At least I get to see baby deer!
 

contender

Ruger Guru
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Messages
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Lake Lure NC USA
Welcome back (around) Brass Magnet! Glad you chimed in.
It answered the Op's questions quite well. My info was more generalized,, where pressure concerns are to be taken into consideration.

Gotta love the knowledge base around here.
 
Joined
Dec 22, 2017
Messages
41
Location
Missouri
See? It had nothing to do with burn rate!
By the way, I kept forgetting to post that part of why 748 is so accurate is because it is a ball powder and it meters so well through a powder measure.
 

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