A couple classic S&Ws: Updated w/Technical Question

Aqualung

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Mar 17, 2005
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Philadelphia, PA, USA
Well, it looks like I've dipped my proverbial toe into the S&W "pool" with a couple classics I couldn't pass up.

A friend's father-in-law passed away recently and had a few guns that he left. They included these two classic revolvers that I couldn't let get sold off to a pawn shop with the others by his widow and daughter.

They were in storage for at least the last few decades, but in really good condition and luckily, rust-free.

We did the transfer last weekend and I finally got to sit down and clean them up thoroughly, get a good look at them and get some pics. Previously, I'd only seen a couple mediocre phone photos, since they were in FLA. They really cleaned up nicely, needing just a bit of CLP to un-gum some of the workings and clean off some old oil that had congealed.

Thanks to @WendyZXZ for guiding me in some directions to get more info on these as well!

The first is a Model 36 Chief's Special J-Frame (round-butt). The S/N (once we found the real one) puts it being manufactured in the 1960s (S/N 4426xx, my references say '62-'69). Original grips are gone and it's got the oversized, grip of which I absolutely hate the looks, but make the gun so comfortable. I'll be ordering a set of vintage grips to get it back to original, but the big grip may stay on, or be replaced with a Pachmayr grip of the same vintage...I'm thinking this will become Mrs. Aqualung's gun, so we'll see what she likes.

This little gun really did well with some CLP love. When I got it, pretty much everything was a bit stiff, cylinder spin, ejector, cylinder release and closing, etc. The action was very smooth, but also seemed a bit on the sluggish side. A few drops of CLP in strategic areas and some swabbing freed things up greatly. I even went so far as to take the side plate off to make sure none of the innards were gunky...and once I saw those guts that would make a Swiss watch cringe, I screwed the panel back on...a hammer-handed Ruger barbarian like me has no business mucking around in *there*! 😲

Anyhow, the bluing is very nice and shows very little wear, even though I believe Bob carried it as his off-duty or backup gun when he was a deputy sheriff in CA, many years ago.

Here it is, all cleaned up:
J-Frame(G)_L.JPG


J-Frame(G)_R.JPG


As I previously mentioned, this may become Mrs. Aqualung's bedside gun if the trigger pull fits her (and maybe then I'll get my SP101 back...:D). I don't think it's as much as my SP101 (with 10# Wolff springs installed, so she can pull it), but my trigger scale only goes to 8# (S/A pull is a crisp 3.5lbs). I've ordered a couple speed loaders for it.

Next up is a true beauty, though in a slightly more used condition...I think it was Bob's duty gun.

It's a Pre-14, K38 Target Masterpiece. S/N (again, when we found the right one) puts it as 1955 manufacture date (S/N K2555xx). This one too needed the CLP love. It was similarly stiff from disuse and storage. However, the results were shockingly different. I'd heard about how classic Smiths performed, but this one has made me a believer. I don't know if Bob had this one worked on (he was also on shooting teams), or if it's the nature of such guns (hence the "Masterpiece" moniker), but this one operates very nicely. I didn't even go near the side plate screws...wasn't monkeying with what I think is perfection at this point. I was actually surprised that I could measure the D/A trigger pull, a smooth 8# D/A pull and 3# S/A pull.

There is a very little bit of bluing wear and the grips look like they've "been there" with dings and scratches, which make me think it was his duty gun.

K38_R.JPG


K38_L.JPG


The guns came with holsters, too. The one for the K38 is pretty neat, having a retention strap, but also being fully open at the back and tensioned, so it can be pulled fairly quickly without having to draw the whole length out the top. Another indication that the K38 might have been his duty revolver.

Anyhow, I know it's a Ruger forum, but I know there are others on here that appreciate classic S&Ws, like I recently have come to do.

Aqualung
 
Good stuff--very nice! The custom grips on the J-frame look like they might be Mustangs.

Congratulations!
 
Neat classics for sure! And your cleaning supervisor is cute too!

Yep, Bean's taken over from his predecessor, Sarge as Assistant/Supervisory Armorer for the Aqualung family. Bandit hasn't gotten too involved yet, but I'm sure he will, in time.

Good stuff--very nice! The custom grips on the J-frame look like they might be Mustangs.

Congratulations!

There are no markings on them, inside or out, but they fit very nicely. As much as I hate the looks of them, they do feel good.

We'll see what Mrs. Aqualung thinks about them. If she starts carrying, this may be the one and she may want smaller grips for in her purse.

Aqualung
 
I think they're pretty sharp-looking, but I'd be willing to bet they're adding unnecessary bulk.

If Mrs. Aqualung has small hands, the smallest good option would be the factory grips with a Tyler T-Grip Adapter.
 
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Great find and I'm sure you'll enjoy those Smiths as much as any other firearms you own, including your Rugers. As my students used to say, "Ya dun gud."
 
Old Smiths and a cute cat..... what more can you ask for (OK, maybe a cool dog to keep the cat outta trouble).

p.s. I put a pair of old S&W 'gangsta grips' on my J-frame for the lovely woman to handle if she ever wanted to... she didn't.

 
Thanks for sharing. I miss the glossy bluing from those days on guns. Glad some can still be found on the used gun market.
 
Thanks all. I'm glad to have these in my collection.

My latest mission was to get some replacement factory grips for the Chief's Special. I've come to "not hate" the oversized grip that's on it, but I like things as original as possible, so I went on the hunt for some stock panels that were of similar condition to the gun. Boy, was I surprised at the costs for original factory stocks...

After more research, I think my Chief's Special was made between 1966 and 1969. The serial#, puts it between 1962 and 1969 and it's not a "flat latch", which ended in 1966. I then found that there are "diamond style" grips, which were standard up until 1968...so mine *could* have had diamond grips installed.

So, I found a set of diamond grips in pretty decent shape for what I found to be a reasonable price...they need a little oil/cleaning, but the medallions are still pretty sharp and legible. In fact, the number stamped inside them is much higher than the serial# on my gun, so I'm thinking I made the right call to find a set of "period-possible" grips.

They look so much more appropriate on the little snub.
J-Frame(G)_R_Dia.JPG


J-Frame(G)_L_Dia.JPG


I also found a set of Pachmayr compact grips that fill the hand a little more, but not nearly as obtrusively as the "original" oversized ones. They might stay on the gun, but the key will be what Mrs. Aqualung likes best.

Even they look so much better and allow for use with the speed loaders I bought for it.
J-Frame(G)_R_Pac.JPG


J-Frame(G)_L_Pac.JPG


I'm ready to hit the range with them now...I loaded up 200 wadcutters for this and the K38 and and 50 125grn JHPs to try out to work in this one so I can load it up with the Federal +P 125grn loads I keep in the SP101 for Mrs Aqualung.

I'm seriously overdue at the range...I've got these two and a Walther P38 to test out!

Aqualung
 
Thanks all. I'm glad to have these in my collection.

My latest mission was to get some replacement factory grips for the Chief's Special. I've come to "not hate" the oversized grip that's on it, but I like things as original as possible, so I went on the hunt for some stock panels that were of similar condition to the gun. Boy, was I surprised at the costs for original factory stocks...

After more research, I think my Chief's Special was made between 1966 and 1969. The serial#, puts it between 1962 and 1969 and it's not a "flat latch", which ended in 1966. I then found that there are "diamond style" grips, which were standard up until 1968...so mine *could* have had diamond grips installed.

So, I found a set of diamond grips in pretty decent shape for what I found to be a reasonable price...they need a little oil/cleaning, but the medallions are still pretty sharp and legible. In fact, the number stamped inside them is much higher than the serial# on my gun, so I'm thinking I made the right call to find a set of "period-possible" grips.

They look so much more appropriate on the little snub.
View attachment 5828

View attachment 5829

I also found a set of Pachmayr compact grips that fill the hand a little more, but not nearly as obtrusively as the "original" oversized ones. They might stay on the gun, but the key will be what Mrs. Aqualung likes best.

Even they look so much better and allow for use with the speed loaders I bought for it.
View attachment 5830

View attachment 5831

I'm ready to hit the range with them now...I loaded up 200 wadcutters for this and the K38 and and 50 125grn JHPs to try out to work in this one so I can load it up with the Federal +P 125grn loads I keep in the SP101 for Mrs Aqualung.

I'm seriously overdue at the range...I've got these two and a Walther P38 to test out!

Aqualung
good find on the period grips!
 
They could be a set of Fuzzy Farrant grips. I've got a set on my Trooper and like them. Were those made for a lefty? It looks like the palm swell is on the left side. Fuzzy was an LAPD guy who made grips in his garage and had a big following in SoCal. The cop I got my Trooper from stepped up to a 6" Python. He bought the grips and then the gun. In 1968 when he sold me his 6 month old 4" Trooper (not a III) he included the new Python grips (and box) in case I didn't like the Fuzzys.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?42352-More-Fuzzy-Farrant-gripshttps://rogersgunsandgrips.com/product/smith-wesson-k-frame-fuzzy-farrant-grips-swkff1/
 
They could be a set of Fuzzy Farrant grips. I've got a set on my Trooper and like them. Were those made for a lefty? It looks like the palm swell is on the left side. Fuzzy was an LAPD guy who made grips in his garage and had a big following in SoCal. The cop I got my Trooper from stepped up to a 6" Python. He bought the grips and then the gun. In 1968 when he sold me his 6 month old 4" Trooper (not a III) he included the new Python grips (and box) in case I didn't like the Fuzzys.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?42352-More-Fuzzy-Farrant-gripshttps://rogersgunsandgrips.com/product/smith-wesson-k-frame-fuzzy-farrant-grips-swkff1/
They very well may be. From what I understand,Bob knew a few folks in the industry during his time out there. He had his other guns engraved, was on a shooting team or two, etc.

They aren't specifically for lefties, as they fit my right hand very well.

Aqualung
 
A favorite classic Smith here for us:

zN3DxT3.jpg


One of the reasons to check out gun shows when they show up in that you never know what will show up. We weren't looking for anything specific but noticed this S&W 38/44 HD and got it out the door for $650.00 including the tax. It came with non correct magna grips so we switched the grips out for Altamont bonded ivory which we both find attractive. It is factory lettered to 1949 and was shipped to Wolf and Klarr in Fort Worth.
 
So...I've got a S&W technical question...


The trigger pull on the Chief's Special is a bit heavy for Mrs. Aqualung's comfort. I'm not surprised, since I put in a Wolff #10 (or #12) spring in my SP101 to make it easier for her to pull in case she needed to.


Anyhow, I did some homework and found that in S&Ws, the trigger weight is determined mostly by the "rebound spring" and that the hammer spring is 8.5lbs (in Model 36s, anyhow). I've got a pack of Wolff rebound springs coming in the next day or so (5 springs from 12#-16#) and plan on giving them a try to get the right balance between DA and SA trigger weights.


So, my question is whether changing the rebound spring has any bearing on ignition reliability. I'm planning on keeping the factory hammer spring, so shouldn't have to worry about popping off primers, correct?


I still plan on shooting this gun a good bit before it gets relegated to a defensive role, but want to confirm what I think to be true about ignition.


Thanks.


Aqualung
 
The rebound spring has NOTHING to do with ignition. Changing it out might or might not make a difference in your trigger pull. It's a fairly cheap experiment at any rate, so drive on.
 
The rebound spring does not affect the ignition, it will affect the trigger return. The mainspring does affect the ignition and many people have made adjustments to either the mainspring or the strain screw to lighten the action. I don't recommend any cutting of springs, backing off screws or grinding down screws to improve the action. Shooting and enjoying the revolver is the best way to improve any trigger/action, it will wear in and smooth over time and will wear where it needs to, without polishing everything unnecessarily. That's been my experience.
 
They’re just making sure there are no 9 or 10 shot cylinders!
Cats absolutely hate 10shot cylinders on revolvers, and are suspicious of humans that possess them…

We’ve, in my circle of association, have always been suspicious that Bill Sr. Hated cats. Otherwise, why did the RST and 10/22 hold 10shots?
 
As much of a Ruger fan as I am, I think the older S&W J-frames are hands down the most packable carry snub that exists

I have a mid-1980's Model 60 that I gave to my dad and he refuses to give back. With the factory RB Magnas, in a Bianchi 6 IWB holster that thing disappeared in pretty much any clothing and was light, and easy to carry. I carried a Bianchi Speed Strip as a reload.

My SP101 took over for it but it's just not as packable as that M60.

I may have to get an old Airweight Bodyguard to use strictly as a CC gun.

They are not very much fun to shoot, especially with +P and they aren't easy to hit with but they aren't target revolvers, they're point and shoot sub-10 yard defensive guns marketed to LE Agencies for Detectives, plainclothes, also civilian concealed carry etc I fired probably a box of .38 through the M60 and instantly knew it wasn't a range gun.
 
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