Looks like they are trying to make a super M-4.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...s-to-double-the-m4-s-effective-range-44828497
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog...s-to-double-the-m4-s-effective-range-44828497
600- yards M-4
- Thread starter Fox Mike
- Start date
Sounds like a big ask! If it's possible I would think that a piston system with a healthy self regulating or adjustable gas settings would be required. I just don't see a DI system being able to function at both extremes?
Maybe they just need to go old school... my father shot a perfect score at Paris Island in '47 with an M1 Garand.... He claimed the range was a 1,000 yards back then.
bobski
Hunter
garand? can be done any day every day.
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You might figure out how to hit a target at a 1000 with an M-4. But, it's going to hit with about the same energy of a .22 lr at close range. Pretty sure most protective armor and helmets will stop it. It's just a physics thing. And I won't even get into the effect a puff of wind would have on target impact. Sounds more like someone is getting a kick back to farm out a contract to someone.
Oh, they'll probably come up with some kind of whiz-bang forged titanium upper that costs $8000-$10000 each, and shoots depleted uranium anti-superhero ammo at $10 per round.
The good ol' "designated marksman" with a conventional firearm would probably be a lot cheaper (and probably less likely to experience catastrophic failure)...
The good ol' "designated marksman" with a conventional firearm would probably be a lot cheaper (and probably less likely to experience catastrophic failure)...
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I'm a bit confused being just a Squid 
. Every Marine I meet was a rifleman, and some were even GRUNTS. What's this Designated Marksman stuff? Sounds like Big Green acknowledging that they made a mistake putting the M16 as a general issue rifle? 
. Every Marine I meet was a rifleman, and some were even GRUNTS. What's this Designated Marksman stuff? Sounds like Big Green acknowledging that they made a mistake putting the M16 as a general issue rifle?
OP
Check this about Distinguished Marksman
https://thecmp.org/competitions/distinguishedbadges/distinguished-marksman-badge/
https://thecmp.org/competitions/distinguishedbadges/distinguished-marksman-badge/
I'm a bit confused being just a Squid
FWIW...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman_rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M39_Enhanced_Marksman_Rifle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_14_Enhanced_Battle_Rifle
...more info elsewhere!
Somehow none of this seems to be related to my three decades of obligated service ending in 1997. As a lowly Squid I was issued an M25 which was the ultimate M14 during Dessert Storm. None of the Services had Designated Marksmen back then, so obviously the M16 and it's variants failed as a Battlefield Rifle or there would have been no need to bring that Old Outdated M14 back into service and issue it to folks that could actually qualify with a Battlefield Rifle once again?
Edit to add M25 background for folks other than Squids. M25 Sniper Weapon System - Wikipedia https://share.google/e2y9f3jU8vFgJE8ax
https://share.google/aimode/yVia3S4C9tCt6khLb
Edit to add M25 background for folks other than Squids. M25 Sniper Weapon System - Wikipedia https://share.google/e2y9f3jU8vFgJE8ax
https://share.google/aimode/yVia3S4C9tCt6khLb
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OP
Distinguish Marksman is a NRA designed course of competition that is 'recognized' by the services. Google is your friend.
CMP is the organization that can provide you with training and allow you to purchase really Old military stuff that folks trained in the Military Services used to use.
Back then it was "DM" School. West Coast was at Pendleton. You had to attend and successfully complete to be issued the PSR even as shooter/spotter. Even for basic ASF or SRT. It is now called "EDM" and conducted in VA. There is now an enhanced SAMI course called "ESAMI" for the course. Even for ECS civilian instructors they need ESAMI cert.
How can a Navy guy who claims such things not know what Designated Marksman is?
How can a Navy guy who claims such things not know what Designated Marksman is?
I've been told that the first 100 years are the hardest.
Is there a difference between a Novice and Youths?
Well, did you notice that the Navy Didn't recognize any Secondary MOS's back in the 70's? Every MARINE that completed (Precision Rifle Training) the training earned a Secondary MOS of 8541. Only thing a Squid got was a check in the block for prerequisite courses to continue with other training.
How can an such an expert skip over such basic Navy Regulations. TIME FRAME is important. Training completed prior to New Course Development usually Grandfathered past graduates. YMMV.
What was the speed limit back then?
Don't even expect you tell folks that gas was less than 0.20 (20 cent) a gallon.
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A few years back during a flood event, older Son and I were launching bullets from AR's at floating debris 1/2 mile away(before the safety talk/sermon starts--there was a solid backstop consisting of a dirt berm and solid treeline beyond the impact area). He was using a .223 and I a 5.45x39. After some walking in of strikes, we could keep the impacts on an estimated 3' diameter area. This leads me to believe it's very possible to hit human sized targets with commonly used cartridge/carbine combinations at least 50% @ 1/2 mile. Regardless of the footpounds delivered, those hits would have been at least partially disabling. Anyone who thinks being hit by any bullet @ long range won't leave a mark should volunteer to be the target.
Oh BTW, the 5.45x39 had around 3' less drop at that range vs the .223 (55 grain bullets in both).
Oh BTW, the 5.45x39 had around 3' less drop at that range vs the .223 (55 grain bullets in both).
Back when I was young one of my hobbies was to shoot the pigeons sitting on the ridge of the roof of the barn behind the house with a 22. One day my father caught me doing that and pointed out that the nearby town, Trenton S.C. was right at a mile on the other side of the barn and my rounds were probably landing close to there... he told me to stop shooting in that direction.
Oh and I think the gas at the local out in the country store was 19 cents a gallon.
Oh and I think the gas at the local out in the country store was 19 cents a gallon.
gjgalligan
Blackhawk
How many holes did you put in the roof?
My butt would have been barbecued if I had ever shot at something sitting on a roof of any kind.
36 inch diameter at 880 yards? 12 inch vital zone. Dragon Skin.
Dragon Skin - Wikipedia https://share.google/45PUlcWVVdYxjeE3s
Dragon Skin - Wikipedia https://share.google/45PUlcWVVdYxjeE3s
actually the one hole I put in a roof was about 2"x3". that was with a 12gage shot gun and bird shot.
I put a lot of holes in a lot of things... used to see how many 1" old pine boards the minimum magnum 38 special rounds my father had loaded would go through in the old tenant houses on the farm.. (no one was inside) Usually it was two and a half walls, 5 boards.
reuben_j_cogburn
Buckeye
designate marksman is not a new concept..... we didn't have any... we were expected to shoot at expert level. We'd go to the range until we did.
As for long range with the 5.56, I watched our RTO, drop a mulie in it's tracks at, at least 600 yards, (when we were on one of our regular jaunts out to yakima firing range).... "the yakatack"....
everybody got venison that night....
I think that new round 6.8 round that the military is wanting is stupid....yet all the arms companies are jumpin through hoops to get the contract..
As for long range with the 5.56, I watched our RTO, drop a mulie in it's tracks at, at least 600 yards, (when we were on one of our regular jaunts out to yakima firing range).... "the yakatack"....
everybody got venison that night....
I think that new round 6.8 round that the military is wanting is stupid....yet all the arms companies are jumpin through hoops to get the contract..
The.Tumbleweed
Blackhawk
Did you know that the Navy DID, in the '70s, recognize secondary MOS. It wasn't uncommon for people to be cross-rated in one or more beyond their designated rating, usually in a companion rating within a a given department.
I can't see where it would make sense to stop the practice. A ship is a living thing, run by people. It makes sense to have people that are trained, ready, and able, to step into a position should a given man goes down during an engagement.
There's no walking home from a boat ride.
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