45 Colt vs 44 Mag for main big-bore platform

[Jimbo357mag]

But limiting a cartridge based on antiquated pressure limits meant for old, weak-steeled or shoddy modern guns is a waste imo.

Sane loading practices are mandatory. But limiting a modern Blackhawk, or similar strength 45 Colt, to 14k psi is like driving 25 mph in a 55 mph zone.

Geee, I never thought of my 38 or 44 specials as having an antiquated pressure limit. :roll:

...Jimbo

 

[dougader]

But limiting a cartridge based on antiquated pressure limits meant for old, weak-steeled or shoddy modern guns is a waste imo.

Sane loading practices are mandatory. But limiting a modern Blackhawk, or similar strength 45 Colt, to 14k psi is like driving 25 mph in a 55 mph zone.

Geee, I never thought of my 38 or 44 specials as having an antiquated pressure limit. :roll:

...Jimbo

Geee, maybe we'd all still be shooting 38's (instead of 357's, Jimbo) if everyone thought like you. Golly, gee, this 44 ounce revolver better not have anything over 14, 000 psi shot through it... :roll:

 

[piratedude]

I think if you live in suburbia, or anywhere in the lower 48 really, and want to pretend that you are a big game hunter, then the .45 is great. But speaking from experience, if you travel the back roads, to places that are far from the lands of Wal-Mart, then .44 mag makes more sense. I live in Polar Bear country, if you don't bring .45 Colt up with you, then you won't find any. And no you can't mail order it either.

 

[Rodfac]

I like .45's; h--l I've got two LC's and a passel of 1911's, but everytime I look at the thickness of those cylinder walls, I'm reminded of Keith's statement about relative strength and his reasons for switching to the .44 Special.

Too, I've always had better accuracy from the .44 than I did with the .45, even the accurized .45 ACP's and that's comparing out of the box Rugers and S&W's with accurized 1911 Colts. Groups with the LC are just bigger, like almost 50%.

I'm not throwing a grenade in the conversation here...I like the .45's, but just saying that in my experience, the .44's are more accurate. My results; yours may and probably will be different.

Keep 'em both....diversity in fire power is the politically correct thing to do.

Rodfacf

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Geee, maybe we'd all still be shooting 38's (instead of 357's, Jimbo) if everyone thought like you. Golly, gee, this 44 ounce revolver better not have anything over 14, 000 psi shot through it... :roll:

When you compare one "platform" to the other I think you should look at the whole spectrum not just a few guns.

When buy a 44mag gun I know exactly what I have.

When I buy a 45 colt gun, I'm not so sure what I have.
Colt, Smith, Ruger, Marlin, Clones, Old or New guns, there is no pressure limit stamped on the guns.

I have nothing against loading-up hot loads in the right gun but generalizations can really get you in trouble with the wrong gun.

...JImbo

 

[c.r.]

I think one thing that is quite often overlooked is "what platform are we talking about when we compare the 44mag and the 45 Colt?"

outside of custom 5-shot and Freedom Arms revolvers ..... Ruger's revolvers are the only reason we can compare the 44mag and the 45Colt.

No other platform is strong enough to allow the 45Colt to be run up to its "true performance level". John Linebaugh probably recieves the most credit for making this knowledge available. (i'm not suggesting other folks weren't doing it, but to the avg. 45Colt enthusiats of today, they probably know about it because of John Linebaugh). Without Linebaugh's work and Ruger's Blackhawk, the 45Colt wouldn't have the teeth that it has.

So when we discuss "which is better" it should be pointed out that only on the Ruger platform can we even have such a discussion.

I'm also not suggesting that the SAA in 45 Colt shooting a ~250 grain slug at ~850 fps isn't sufficient for most anything that any of us need. BUT, that is a far cry from the 44 mag in any revovler that is chambered for it.

~c.r.

 

[Bucks Owin]

Geee, maybe we'd all still be shooting 38's (instead of 357's, Jimbo) if everyone thought like you. Golly, gee, this 44 ounce revolver better not have anything over 14, 000 psi shot through it... :roll:

When you compare one "platform" to the other I think you should look at the whole spectrum not just a few guns.

When buy a 44mag gun I know exactly what I have.

When I buy a 45 colt gun, I'm not so sure what I have.
Colt, Smith, Ruger, Marlin, Clones, Old or New guns, there is no pressure limit stamped on the guns.

I have nothing against loading-up hot loads in the right gun but generalizations can really get you in trouble with the wrong gun.

...JImbo

I think it's a given that a .45 LC owner who is into reloading KNOWS that 32K loads are for Rugers, FA etc, and NOT an Italian SAA "Colt" knockoff etc. (Even if that fact isn't apparent from a disclaimer with the data itself, eg "For Ruger and Contender ONLY") :wink:

 

[Bucks Owin]

By the looks of things we all agree on the 44 Special.

Glad we finally have a consesus.

The only thing I'd agree to is that in a factory loading, the .44 Spl is the "weak sister" of ALL the big bores!.....Umbrella firmly clenched, Dennis :shock:

 

[COR]

This 44mag vs 45 vs 44Spl vs .357 vs Kimbo Slice etc. is probably my favorite type of question.... right behind, Which gun should I choose for Bear defense?


It will never get "answered" by anyone.

But we will have a dandy of a time discussing it.

BTW Dennis, she may be the weak sister but she is still the sexiest in the family...If you are more attracted to her older brothers I will not judge you. :wink:

 

[Bucks Owin]

BTW Dennis, she may be the weak sister but she is still the sexiest in the family...If you are more attracted to her older brothers I will not judge you. :wink:

Fair enough pard.. :wink: Actually, I admit to a little "trolling" with that quip. Just to liven things up you understand... :lol:

 

[maxpress]

I just cant see where anything standing in front of the gun is going to be able to tel the difference in getting hit buy a 300gr .45 bullet at 1200fps or a 300gr .44 bullet at 1200fps.

i am just glad there is 2 cartidges that load up about the same so when i cant find components for one i can get them for the other.

 

[Bucks Owin]

I just cant see where anything standing in front of the gun is going to be able to tel the difference in getting hit buy a 300gr .45 bullet at 1200fps or a 300gr .44 bullet at 1200fps.

i am just glad there is 2 cartidges that load up about the same so when i cant find components for one i can get them for the other.

Ain't that the truth! I'm getting a little tired of the component "shortage". More like an excuse to price gouge if ya ask me.... :roll: JMO, Dennis....(BTW, dittos on the 300 gr .44/.45 @ 1200 :wink: )

 

[COR]

Yeah I know Dennis...That's the whole point of this exercise (isn't it?)...TO HAVE FUN DOIN' IT!

 

[jgt]

WFRII.
I sold all my other caliber guns in the seventies to focus on the 44. If you enjoy the 45 like I do 44's then I say go for it. Someone ask why limit yourself. I never felt limited, what I felt was sadisfaction. AND,I found out there is a bonus to being happy with one caliber, you can have more componants on hand by not having to keep an assortment. I was able to have swaging equipment, gunsmithing tools, a varity of bullet molds, a varity of guns including single action, double actions, and custom guns all in the same caliber. So there is a lot to like about having just one. While concentrating on that caliber you learn a lot about it that you may have overlooked had you spread your attention across a lot of others. If you know that is the caliber you enjoy, come on in the wate is fine.

 

[redoktober]

I keep reading posts about problems with the way Ruger bores out the chamber for their .45 Colt revolvers.

Is this really a problem? Both Redhawks and Blackhawks? New guns and old?

 

[dougader]

When you compare one "platform" to the other I think you should look at the whole spectrum not just a few guns.

When buy a 44mag gun I know exactly what I have.

When I buy a 45 colt gun, I'm not so sure what I have.
Colt, Smith, Ruger, Marlin, Clones, Old or New guns, there is no pressure limit stamped on the guns.

I have nothing against loading-up hot loads in the right gun but generalizations can really get you in trouble with the wrong gun.

...JImbo

I don't know what is so hard about figuring out what you have in your hands. I certainly wasn't generalizing about which guns are which.

Blackhawk, FA, Contender.... 32k psi.

Colt/Colt clones, New Vaquero... 14k psi

Now, Brian Pearce at Handloader mag says 20k psi should be fine in the New Vaquero. That's fine for him, but my Montado will never see anything over 14k. I bought that guun for fun, light loads. The heavier stuff goes in the Bisley. And I keep them straight by only using 14k psi data with 250 grain hardcast rnfp (cowboy) bullets. Keith style SWC's and LBT style bullets are used for heavy loads and never go in a light gun.

Speer, Sierra, Hornady, Hodgdon and Lyman, among others, all have separate loading sections for Ruger/Contender guns.

Now, I even take loading data from the major publishers with a grain of salt. Meaning, I don't just think I can load up a max load because its in print. Even though Hodgdon says 23.5 grains of H110 is a max load with a CP 335 grain WLNGC bullet, I have yet to fire one of those in any of my guns. I don't see a need to, for one thing. 1200 fps with that slug will more than handle anything here in Oregon. I worked up to 22.0 grains and found it powerful, accurate and it has enough recoil for my arthritic wrists.

Same with 357 mag. Speer #11 had 125 grain loads with Blue Dot clear up to 16.3 grains. I started at 14.3 grains, worked up to 15.2 grains and then settled on 14.5 grains as max in my GP100. No way I would load that 16.3 grain load in any of my guns. Now we see Speer #14 come out with a max of 13.0 grains.... the advice to start low and work up slowly is wise advice IMO.

I have seen my share of blown 44 mags. A couple 45 Colts, too. While we're at it, some 40 S&W Glocks, too. Some people like to load hot just for the sake of loading hot. I used to enjoy max loads in some of my guns, mostly 357 mag... but none of my "max" loads were above max data in then-current loading manuals.

I think we're on the same page more than we disagree.

 

[tomiswho]

I just cant see where anything standing in front of the gun is going to be able to tel the difference in getting hit buy a 300gr .45 bullet at 1200fps or a 300gr .44 bullet at 1200fps.

i am just glad there is 2 cartidges that load up about the same so when i cant find components for one i can get them for the other.

If the one being shot has calipers, and measures as the bullet passes through him, he'll find that the cross sectional area of the .45 is over 11% more than that of the .429 Mag. :lol: :lol:

 

[WFRII]

Why limit yourself? What are you trying to accomplish by settling on a "main" platform? Do you intend to sell all your guns in other calibers? - Sam

Well Sam, it's like this.
I just don't shoot enough to enjoy both.
I enjoy the modest recoil of the .45 Colt and what it is capable of doing with a 255gr SWC at around 850-950 fps.
Those loads should take care of anything I will run into in the eastern US.
I will probably keep at least one of these guys in .44 mag for times when I am traveling about and ammo for the .45 may not be available:

I have decided that I am not going to hunt with a .44 rifle as it seems I always grab the .280 or something with more range for where I hunt.
I do not anticipate handgun hunting but if I do I think that 5" .45 Colt Classic pushing a 255gr to 1000 fps (about as fast as S&W says it should be loaded in that gun) should do the job out to 50 yds or so. A 5.5" Redhawk would really open up my options as well.
Part of it is nostalgia. Part of it is shooting a cartridge that feels like an over-sized .38 Special when you squeeze the trigger. Part of it is me being a "non-magnum" kind of guy. Part of it is seeing guns in my safe I haven't shot in over 3 years. I'd rather give someone else a chance to use them.
Besides, I'm broke! I'd rather sell off most of one caliber and have the funds to buy components, holsters, etc for another caliber and be able to enjoy it.
A lot of it is just for simplicity's sake! At one time I had over a dozen handgun calibers to keep up with. How can you really learn the capablilities of a cartridge when you have 11 others competing for range time?
As a new reloader I do not want to overwhelm myself with trying to buy components for that many calibers and keeping it all organized.
This year I am going to learn to proficiently load for .45 Colt and .357 magnum.
I really like the Mr. Camp's ideas for loading the Mtn Guns:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Comp ... 20Colt.htm
I'm going to order up 500 Starline brass for both calbers and start slow.
On the other hand, a sick part of me has a thing for the .454 Casull in an Alaskan too! I once fired 36 rounds of .454 through one and it took me 2 hours to get that stupid grin off my face.
The .44 Magnum will always be there if I decide the .45 Colt just isn't all that.

Thanks for all the good-natured banter and loads of advice!
I sold the 5" .44 mag Classic today and my Marlin levergun in .44 should be sold early next week. It's time to order some .45 Colt components.
And Sam, I've always had the hankerin' to take up playing the guitar!
Or maybe the banjo.................