45 Colt Bisley Blackhawk What size throats needed?

[pps]

Just ordered a 45 for my 45th birthday (early present). My lead bullets are sized to .454 What diameter should I have the throats reamed to? I'm thinking .453 ??? If there are any cylindersmithing guru's on the rf today please advise.

Thanks in advance. If some of the advise is to size to .452 ...that's also advise i'll consider doing.

 

[Rclark]

IMO, I would stick with .452 as that seems to be the 'standard' for lead bullets and .45 Colt in general. Most 'commercial' bullets (cast/jacketed) are available in this size too. Only reason I think that some use the .454 is because their gun's throats are already oversize and 'have to' use the bigger diameter bullets to get any accuracy out of them and maybe to reduce leading....

 

[Chuckbuster]

Slug the barrel
Have throats done to .0005-.001" larger than Groove diameter.
Boolits to Throat size

Kevin

 

[Enigma]

If I'm not mistaken, all of the reamers available for this cut to a nominal .4525". If you go that route, you don't have a lot of choices.

 

[Dale53]

I have a relatively new Ruger SS Bisley .45 Colt/.45 ACP convertible. The cylinder throats were undersized and the gun leaded with .45 Colt ammo (serious leading). I couldn't chamber my .45 ACP ammo with bullets sized at .452".

I reamed both cylinders (and while I was at it, my Bisley Vaquero, and both of my friends' Convertibles to .4525".

All of the guns now shoot like NRA Bullseye target guns and NO LEADING whatsoever with .452" home cast bullets.

It is best to slug your cylinder throats before jumping in and doing anything. The easiest way to measure them is with "pin gauges" and a good micrometer. Often the throats will vary a bit in size. I have even seen some that were slightly out of round.

Using a Manson "made for the job" reamer with interchangeable pilots made everything "all better". These are available from Brownell's...

Dale53

 

[tek4260]

Just make sure you use the reamer and not some "split dowel rod and sandpaper" crap.

For that matter, just send it to cas.

 

[Dale53]

Just make sure you use the reamer and not some "split dowel rod and sandpaper" crap.

For that matter, just send it to cas.

AMEN!

Dale53

 

[pps]

Just make sure you use the reamer and not some "split dowel rod and sandpaper" crap.

For that matter, just send it to cas.

CAS is exactly where I plan to send it

 

[tek4260]

Just make sure you use the reamer and not some "split dowel rod and sandpaper" crap.

For that matter, just send it to cas.

AMEN!

Dale53

It always amazes me over on castboolits when this subject comes up, the number of people that will recommend the dowel method. Then, they will tell you all the downsides of using the right tool and how their method is better and seemingly get offended that you even recommended the right tool :roll:

Nothing against castboolits at all btw. Great site with more information than should be allowed by law.

FWIW, you can even buy the reamer, use it, and sell it for about $5 less than you paid in less than an hour in the classifieds. Seen it happen several times.

 

[tek4260]

While you are waiting on your cylinder, order a #26 mainspring, light trigger return spring, extra power latch spring, and an 11deg FC reamer. Might as well get it right before you start. Dang it's easy to spend your money! :wink:

 

[mrbumps]

I am curious about the 11 Degree Forcing Cone issue? All of my Ruger 45 Colts are less than five years old. I purchased an 11 Degree plug to measure the forcing cones from Brownells and they all came out to a perfect 11 degrees, so I never touched them. Is it only the older guns that have the smaller forcing cones?

 

[lark63]

Please give it a complete cleaning and shoot the gun before mods.
I am a believer in reaming but don't do it before you even shoot it.
Reaming is not the lost miracle to turn you in to Dead Eye Dick.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

For what it's worth, .454 bullets are for older guns. Originally, the groove diameter of 45 Colt was .454. After Colt reintroduced the Single Action Army in 1956 they changed the spec to .451. This was so it would be the same as the spec for 45 ACP, which had always been .451.

Ideally, you want a bullet about .001 over barrel groove diameter when shooting lead bullets, so .452 is a perfect bullet for modern 45 Colts. When determining bullet size, it is best to work backwards from barrel groove diameter. Bullets should be .001 over barrel groove diameter. Chamber throats should be no larger than perhaps .001 over bullet diameter, so the bullets will chamber, and so the bullet does not upset while traveling through the throat. Too large a chamber throat also allows the expanding gasses from the powder to escape around the bullet, softening its sides. This can be a major cause of leading with lead bullets.

You can slug your bore if you want, but most manufacturers these days do a very good job of keeping 45 Colt barrels to .451.

You can use your .454 bullets if you like, as long as they are reasonably soft and you do not approach max pressure. But with a properly set up 45 Colt revolver, .452 is the ideal bullet size.

 

[yankee7809]

My latest .45 project gun got it's throats reamed last weekend and I got it done without having shot the gun. The reason I did it that way is the gun was used and the previous owner stated that the gun was very inaccurate. The rearsight was a rag where the guy had attempted to rein the gun in to make up for the inaccuracy. The gun had an amount of crud in the barrel that was largely lead and soot in the cylinder from good 'ol Unique.
The gun got a new rear sight and a steel EJR housing. And a durn good cleaning during which I noticed that the throats were very tight.
Having owned several Blackhawks in.45 before and all of 'em badly needing opened up I couldn't think of a good reason not to ream 'em out.

 

[gobe]

Just make sure you use the reamer and not some "split dowel rod and sandpaper" crap.

For that matter, just send it to cas.

O.K. I'll ask the 'dumb' question ... who/what's cas? I recently acquired a .45 Vaquero and am interested in getting it 'tuned-up'. Was going to contact John Linebaugh, but haven't yet.

 

[Rclark]

I am a believer in reaming but don't do it before you even shoot it.

Usually I am with you on this.... However in .45 Colt, if you can't get a .452 bullet into the throats without a hammer (should only need slight finger pressure), it needs reamed. And, as far as my experience, it never hurts, and only helps accuracy and leading.

 

[gobe]

rclark ... As soon as I saw your post, I took the Vaquero down to the basement, popped the cylinder and tried my .452 slugs in the cylinder. No go! Gues the first step is a ream job. Thanks for the info.

 

[eric conrad]

Globe, cas has been around here since they opened the doors.
His work is excellent, his prices are cheap and turn around is quick. Look here www.cylindersmith.com
Eric

 

[Bozack]

I had cas ream my chambers and I am very happy with the outcome. My Vaquero is an original frame and was greatly inaccurate. I know the original Vaqueros had issues with the chambers but do not know if the New Vaqueros have the same issue. I finaly had the chambers done and kicked myself for not having them done sooner. I would check the chambers and shoot the gun before reaming. Not for any other reason but comparing the before and after.

 

[gobe]

I would check the chambers and shoot the gun before reaming. Not for any other reason but comparing the before and after.

Bozack ... Done both and the chambers need reaming. Eric ... Thanks for the link to Cas' site. Guess I'll be sending my cylinder off to Cas. I'm waiting for my ol' Service buddy to check his Vaquero. Might end up sending him two cylinders.

Thanks for the info, guys.

BTW .. My understanding is that the original Vaqueros were drilled and reamed with a single plunge of multi spindles for each operation; drilling and then reaming. On later models and the New Vaquero each of the holes were drilled with the same tool and reamed with the same tool by indexing the cylinder. Therefore the early models could vary from hole to hole where the later ones were the same size. Read that somewhere, but don't remember the source.