44 vs 357 muzzle blast

[tiger955]

Hi all... I'm looking to soon purchase a shorter barreled revolver for woods carry... mainly for defense against 2 and 4 legged varmints in the TN mountains. I have full size 357 and 44 and have carried 357 blackhawk for many years with full power loads, but it is deafening without ear protection. I normally use muffs at the range and shoot full power loads but don't notice much difference between the 2 with the muffs.
The gun will be carried mainly for protection but want to be able to take a random shot at an opportune target without worrying about digging out muffs. For protection mainly concerned about large feral dogs or stumbling on meth cookers so want more than 38 special... Never tried 44 special, thinking from what I have read on forums a heavy 44 slug at 900ish fps would be plenty of power without excessive muzzle blast.
I don't really have the opportunity to get out right now and reloading stuff is packed away so not practical to experiment right now.
Thoughts???

 

[rammerjammer]

If you're looking for some thumping ammo without all the muzzle blast and recoil then 44 SPL is your friend.

 

[Magnum Force]

I use 240 grain lead semi-wadcutters hand loaded with enough Unique powder to get 900 feet per second from my 4 5/8" Super Blackhawk. It's a pleasant load to shoot, not too much recoil, and very accurate out of the Super Blackhawk and my Rossi 92 carbine.

Here's a pic of ten shots fired standing, two hand hold at ten yards:

The bullet is one I cast myself from a Lee mold. Other good cast lead 240 grain bullets can be found from Missouri Bullet Company.

I wouldn't mind cranking off a couple of shots of this load without hearing protection at some game animal or target of opportunity, probably less muzzle blast than a .45 ACP from a 1911. This I know from firing both at game animals.

I was in a canoe once in a marsh in Coastal N.C., armed with a 1911 when a big fat Nutria (swamp rat) swam by. I started firing at that Nutria without hearing protection. I would sprint paddle the canoe till I got fairly close, fire a couple rounds, the Nutria would dive, or I would lose ground on him. Holster the pistol, sprint the canoe, fire more pistol rounds, repeat. Fired the pistol dry, reloaded and continued the assault. I got that sucker on the last round from the second magazine, 14 rounds total fired. That stunt affected my hearing for about a week....

 

[grobin]

Without protection any of those will damage your hearing! One or two shots will be minor but there will still be damage. A suppressor may solve the problem-SPL in DB NOT muzzle blast! The type of hearing protector with built in mics and amp/limiter will work but look weird (not to mention batteries and auto off!). So unless you are going to take real precautions you are going to have hearing damage! That said, it really doesn't matter which caliber!

 

[RoninPA]

It really doesn't matter what you are shooting if you are worried about hurting you ears. Anything you shoot, other than maybe .22 subsonic ammo (in a rifle), is going to affect your hearing - in a BAD way.

That said, you can get electronic, in the ear, hearing protection for while you are hiking so that if you have to take a shot you will be protected automatically. And, IIRC, you can also get the in ear protectors that will actually enhance your hearing (like hearing aids) and also block the noise if/when you are shooting - like many electronic over the ear muffs now do (no need to take them off to hear range commands).

Here's some on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=electronic+hearing+protection+in+ear&hvadid=295253519992&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9006503&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t2&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5122051184530244330&hvtargid=kwd-323655991185&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_3lea195tdd_e

 

[powder smoke]

Electronic Ear Protection! I never used it but was shooting with my grandson he loves it. You can talk back and forth just ear buds guess they work great he loves them.
Matter of fact I'm getting some! ps

 

[tiger955]

Thanks for the quick responses... I was thinkin low power heavy bullets out of 44. I rarely buy loaded ammo except when I find a deal and need new brass, reloads are so much cheaper (and a fun hobby).
I've hunted all my life and not had noise issues with occasional shots from shotguns, high power rifles, etc out in the open woods, under a covered roof on the range is another story, but 357 and 44mag tend to be hard on ears.

 

[bogus bill]

They are all good and I am fortunate to have most of them. I have ruined hearing from a lot of shooting and working around aircraft for 35 years. Too late for me to worry about it. I have a .44 mag I haven't shot in ages. I have the most of .44 specials. Hot .357`s are ear ringers. .45 colt is good and doesn't ring like a .357.
I like a 4" s&w 24-3 (.44 special). The barrel is thinner than the straight heavy 29 barrel, the cylinder shorter and the cartridge will do 95% of what a .44 mag will do and is lighter to pack. I also own a model 4" s&w 25-5 in .45 colt that is good but is as heavy as a model 29. All that said, I live in Utah, our thing is trail riding in our RZR in all kinds of wilderness. I own .357`s and all calibers but a .41 mag. Guess what I carry most? A lowly 4" s&w m&p .38 special or a 3" s&w model 36 .38 special. Probably because they are the lightest and cheapest handguns I have and I am confident they will do everything I likely need. I also own a nice Ruger single six .32 H&R mag. I am thinking on start packing that. I do notice they have a sharper muzzle blast than my .38`s but is flat shooting, light and no recoil. I plan on carrying it trail riding.

 

[DeletedMember275]

Just don't buy any 3M brand Combat Arms Earplugs. They don't work, 3M knew it, and lied about it. And they're being sued now because of it.

 

[RolandDeschain]

TN resident here too and I am hiking/fishing/hunting or working on my place up on the plateau pretty much constantly. I have a GP100 357, a Smith 686+ 7 shot 357, and a 4 5/8 SBH 44 Mag, and several 9mms, but my woods carry gun for defense vs bears, boars, redneck druggies, etc. is a Glock 32.

The revolvers are nice but its just hard to beat that 12 rds (plus another 12 in a spare mag) of 125 grain 357 mag equivalent in a lighter and handier package. And oh yeah - no issue with muzzle blast - about the same as a 9mm glock with just a little more flip.

 

[rammerjammer]

Any amount of shooting without hearing protection will cause damage. Some calibers worse than others.

Decibel Levels

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA

.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.44 Magnum 165 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

 

[grobin]

WHAT rammerjammer SAID!!
I did professional audio for records, movies and video for 5 years before getting into DP work and video editing. I retired a few years ago partially because of hearing loss (I'm 3dB down at 10kHz). Largely due to recording rock but partially due to not protecting my hearing. Any sound over ~120 dB will result in permanent hearing damage given time or repetition. Any sound over about 140dB
will cause damage which becomes worse with repetition! The only way to tell how bad off you are is to get an audiologist to test you.

There are only two practical ways to protect your self in the field:
Use a suppressor.
Or use active headset protection. (This has built in mics and amplification that makes ordinary small sounds audible and has electronics that cuts out loud sounds.)

Anything else is BS and snake oil!

PS 3dB increase is 2x as loud!

 

[woodperson]

I personally would not make the choice solely based on muzzle blast as a criteria. If I feel the need of defending myself against attacking hog or meth grower then I expect the effect of 1 or 2 shots on my hearing will be a minor consideration. And for any non emergency shooting, plinking, hunting, etc I would put in my molded ear plugs. I do not carry a handgun in the field. Years ago when fishing on the UP of Michigan and other locations with bears common I did. I never fired it in the field. Way to many legal considerations unless one is on his own land and maybe even then. Now I carry bear spray when I think I might need it for bears. Or otherwise. It is in a door compartment of the truck. I really do not know about .357 versus .44 special. My big gun is a .41 Mag and it has shat seems like a lot of muzzle blast with full loads but not a whole lot with slow cast bullet loads. Same for the .357. But I have never shot either one of them without some sort of ear protection.

 

[Rclark]

Just remember guys that even thought the numbers above appear small in difference... 3db diff is 2 times as loud, 10db diff is 10 times as loud.... So difference is quite significant between .357 and .44 Special. Still shooting without any ear protection is harmful.... Regardless. I prefer heavy and slow (relatively).

 

[David Bradshaw]

“44 vs 357 muzzle blast”

Presume this means .44 Mag versus .357 Mag muzzle blast. The .357 Magnum produces a higher cycles-per-second sound wave than the .44 Magnum. Volumetrically, the .44 releases more gas into atmosphere----at lower cycles-per-second----which probably creates a more baritone effect. I don’t grasp the abstraction of decibels, thus unqualified to discuss in these terms.

However, I am familiar with sonic concussion. A look at explosives illustrates a quality of sound that doesn’t require a decibel meter. High Explosives have a much high VOD (Velocity of Detonation) than smokeless powder (not an explosive), and far higher again than black powder (a very low order explosive).

Persons have asked whether I wore hearing muffs when setting off dynamite. Answer: No. If you’re that close that dynamite will hurt your hearing, that’s the least of your worries. At 18,000 fps VOD traditional stick dynamite can make a tremendous BOOM in open air. There is huge atmospheric displacement, but you can be inside the Fly (burden raining out of the sky) zone without hearing damage.

Considerably slower blasting agents also produce a voluminous BOOM, but not ear-splitting.

Not so C4 (Composition 4) which shares the 25,000 fps VOD range of nitroglycerine. You can be football field from C4 and still catch the ear-splitting CRACK of C4. On the scale of relativity the difference of 7,000 to 9,000 fps may seem minor, when it casts you in its shadow the effect is dramatic.

Handcannons including the .454 Casull and .460 S&W Magnum carry hearing carnage to a new level, proving that it is not just high-pitched small bores which necessitate quality hearing protection.
David Bradshaw

 

[Thumbcocker]

Hearing damage is cumulative. A pair of collapsible muffs or foam plugs take up little space in a possibles bag and can save permanent hearing damage. In a must shoot situation a little damage outweighs getting eaten or killed but for plinking or field shooting at targets of opportunity use protection. Also you can then carry whichever pistol fits your hand best on that day.

 

[tiger955]

In reading my previous posts apparently I did not make it clear that I was not looking for lectures on the hazards of shooting a shot or two without hearing protection...
More so comparing the differences between the 2 calibers I selected.
The chart rammerjammer posted on db levels helps, as do a couple other responses, thanks for that...
Suspect I'll stick with the short barreled 44 loaded to 44 spec pressures

 

[David Bradshaw]

tiger955.... DEEP SEAT most of my cast bullet loads in .38 Spl., .357 Mag, .44 Spl., .44 Mag, and .45 Colt. Fast powders such as Win 231/HP-38, and mediums such as HS-6 comprise most of these loads. In this fashion a relatively heavy bullet, deep seated, minimizes muzzle blast. Accuracy equals conventional seating. Having described this many times, suffice to say the bullet is seated with front band or bearing surface .030” to .060” below case mouth. Roll crimp after seating, as light a crimp as bullet and charge allow. Unless necessary for recoil, I don’t apply a heavy crimp. Seldom use a crimp groove on cast.

Two of my quietest loads
* .45 Colt: cast, powder coat, 335 SWC; deep seated over 10.9/HS-6, .45 Colt brass, standard large pistol primer. COL=1.542”.

* .44 Mag: cast 240 or 250 SWC; deep seated over 5.5/Win 231 or HP-38. .44 Mag brass, standard LP primer. COL=1.500"

Quiet enough to use around, occasionally inside, barn.
David Bradshaw

 

[mlazarus5388]

You will likely never notice the difference between the concussion of the two rounds. I would look to other metrics for comparing and selecting the cartridge.

 

[Rclark]

Suspect I'll stick with the short barreled 44 loaded to 44 spec pressures

'Sounds' like a plan. For example, in a .44 Mag cartridge, 8.5g of Unique will duplicate the .44 Special Skeeter load under a 240-250g SWC.

 

[grobin]

Any muzzle blast which produces more than 120dB of sound pressure level is damageing. Some recovery occurs over time but some damage is cumulative and perminant!
Except for a few suppressed weapons (mostly 22) all guns are over 120dB. All of the proposed loads will damage hearing.

The best approach-although not the most convenient-is to use hearing assist head sets. These amplify small noises to where you have hearing as good as a wolf etc. They sense loud noises and attenuate them to safe levels. Their disadvantages are: batteries, expense and they look dorky!

 

[CraigC]

Shooting any handgun without hearing protection is a bad idea and it's not something to make a habit of. However, there are degrees of damage that can be incurred by one shot. However, it is absolutely true that something like a moderately loaded .44Spl will be easier on the ears than the piercing crack of full power .357. Having done measurable damage to my own hearing, I do recommend doing everything possible to preserve your hearing.

 

[squint]

I too have been trying to figure out how to make those occasional 'unprotected' shots with the least hearing damage. Mr. Bradshaw's load suggestions for the .45C will get a try.

Also, I am wondering if black powder loads in the .45C would be "quieter". They certainly are less piercing. I would be willing to put up with the mess and cleaning if I could shoot the occasional target of opportunity with no or even just less hearing damage.

Anyone have any good data?

 

[Jimbo357mag]

Any amount of shooting without hearing protection will cause damage. Some calibers worse than others.

Decibel Levels

Table 3. CENTERFIRE PISTOL DATA

.25 ACP 155.0 dB
.32 LONG 152.4 dB
.32 ACP 153.5 dB
.380 157.7 dB
9mm 159.8 dB
.38 S&W 153.5 dB
.38 Spl 156.3 dB
.357 Magnum 164.3 dB
.41 Magnum 163.2 dB
.44 Spl 155.9 dB
.44 Magnum 165 dB
.45 ACP 157.0 dB
.45 COLT 154.7 dB

Many of us carry for self defense and I am happy to know that the 38 special and 44 special are very close in sound level and pretty low compared to 357 mag, 9mm.

 

[LAH]

When it comes to center fire sixguns, I've fired more 44 Mags [L429421 & 20 grs. 2400] from a 4" barrel than any other without ear protection. These have all been shots of opportunity. I have taken a couple shots with a .357 in the same way. Neighbor I can't speak for anyone else but for me there is no comparison of the 2. The fully loaded .357 from a 4" barrel will make my ears hurt for days. Not so with the 44.

 

[Flyover_Country]

Hi all... I'm looking to soon purchase a shorter barreled revolver for woods carry... mainly for defense against 2 and 4 legged varmints in the TN mountains. I have full size 357 and 44 and have carried 357 blackhawk for many years with full power loads, but it is deafening without ear protection. I normally use muffs at the range and shoot full power loads but don't notice much difference between the 2 with the muffs.
The gun will be carried mainly for protection but want to be able to take a random shot at an opportune target without worrying about digging out muffs. For protection mainly concerned about large feral dogs or stumbling on meth cookers so want more than 38 special... Never tried 44 special, thinking from what I have read on forums a heavy 44 slug at 900ish fps would be plenty of power without excessive muzzle blast.
I don't really have the opportunity to get out right now and reloading stuff is packed away so not practical to experiment right now.
Thoughts???

The loudness depends on a lot of things but appears to mostly be dependent on barrel length and powder charge, and less so if the bullet ever exceeds the speed of sound.

Snubbies are far louder than longer-barreled revolvers, and give much more of a sharp crack of a report like a rifle than a bang/boom that the longer-barreled revolvers give. I'd rate a 2" snubby .357 shooting full powered rounds to be similar to shooting a lightweight 7 mm RM or .300 WM rifle with a 22" barrel. Shooting full powered rounds in my 7 1/2" SRH is pretty similar to shooting a shorter-barreled 12 gauge volume and character, and I do not do this without hearing protection. Most of what I shoot from my .44 is 240 grain Keith bullets at about 950-1000 fps and also 200 grain RNFPs at about 1100-1200 fps out of my .44 and both are very polite to shoot. Recoil is minimal and the report is a "pop" that sounds similar in volume to a typical 9 mm FMJ cheapo target round out of a service pistol. These do work well on pests such as raccoons, possums, and armadillos with minimal mess and fuss.

Deer-sized pests such as large dogs and two-legged predators generally behave similarly to a deer. Shooting one with a low velocity cast lead bullet that does not expand much if at all will kill it reliably with a chest shot, but it will not go down immediately unless you hit it in the head, spine, or take out a shoulder or hip. Deer go about 30-40 yards when shot with those rounds as I have seen with shooting them with .50 caliber cast sabots out of a shotgun. They go about half that distance when shot with a suitable deer rifle (such as an '06 shooting 150 grain JSPs), same with a good sized dog shot with the same rifle round. What will immediately or near-immediately stop a good sized dog is a direct hit with a round of BB/BBB/T goose shot or #4 buckshot. That is my choice for that task, and it has worked well for me repeatedly in the past as long as the pest is within 50 yards. However, if it was too onerous to carry a shotgun, I would pack the .44 Magnum with full powered 200 grain JHP rounds to give the most whack to the pest rather than poke a hole in it and give it 20 seconds to fight back.